Legacy Beta

I personally think that Legacy members shouldn't be a priority in the beta, seeing as Yoshida isn't making a game for the existing fans that he knows will come back anyway.

I guarantee that over 75% of legacy players will come back even without beta access. He needs to manage who gets the invites, and new players are a better demographic to go after.

inb4 entitled people.

Lucky for you, Legacy status gives no priority into the beta!

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Lucky for you, Legacy status gives no priority in the beta!

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I know that we won't get priority, but I'm pretty sure Yoshida stated he wanted to get 'current' players into it. It's a silly move.

Eh, using current members to test is a smart move. I'd be willing to bet that 80% of the players stayed around because of A Realm Reborn. Letting them test the game that enticed them to stick around makes more sense than just letting total strangers test it, as they won't have a ground to base their feedback off of. Current players know how the game works, and can give proper analysis on stuff like UI responsiveness, battle mechanics, etc.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I know that we won't get priority, but I'm pretty sure Yoshida stated he wanted to get 'current' players into it. It's a silly move.

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Maybe not. They dont want new players to see shitty bugs or bad design choices they can change quickly.

We are used to it and would just be happy to see something better (most likely).

Once everything is in good shape they should obviously put priority onto getting the news out with an open beta - but I see nothing wrong with letting large amounts of 1.0 players come into closed beta (at least the first few runs until things are going fairly smooth).

give to matsume the legacy beta Ingolf wants not

IT WILL NOT BE WASTED

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I personally think that Legacy members shouldn't be a priority in the beta, seeing as Yoshida isn't making a game for the existing fans that he knows will come back anyway.

I guarantee that over 75% of legacy players will come back even without beta access. He needs to manage who gets the invites, and new players are a better demographic to go after.

inb4 entitled people.

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Good thing the point of a beta is to help test the game and not a "FREE EARLY ACCESS SEE IF YOU LIKE IT" sort of deal.

You're right, legacy members should have priority on Alpha and then beta :p.

Current players ARE a better choice, because we can help test the game better.

'New' players will just think it's a free ticket to play the game early; it'll be incomplete, they'll rage, and a bad viral reputation ensues.

"current" doesn't mean "legacy", by letting current players in, SE ensures that people actually interested in the game play and test the beta, as opposed to someone that cares nothing but just applied because they're bored.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I know that we won't get priority, but I'm pretty sure Yoshida stated he wanted to get 'current' players into it. It's a silly move.

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Its not silly. Beta is not a trial period, beta is a TESTING phase. Current players have a perspective that new players don't have. Current players will be able to go "WOAH, wait! I liked the way this was before, change it back!", where as new players wont know the difference.
Its not an advertising period to bring in new players... IT IS A TESTING PHASE!! I'm shocked at how many people don't know this.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Its not silly. Beta is not a trial period, beta is a TESTING phase. Current players have a perspective that new players don't have. Current players will be able to go "WOAH, wait! I liked the way this was before, change it back!", where as new players wont know the difference.
Its not an advertising period to bring in new players... IT IS A TESTING PHASE!! I'm shocked at how many people don't know this.

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Gaming culture has grown to believe that open beta testing is actually an advertising/free trial period. I'm... I'm not sure why when there is a clear definition of the word, but.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Eh, using current members to test is a smart move. I'd be willing to bet that 80% of the players stayed around because of A Realm Reborn. Letting them test the game that enticed them to stick around makes more sense than just letting total strangers test it, as they won't have a ground to base their feedback off of. Current players know how the game works, and can give proper analysis on stuff like UI responsiveness, battle mechanics, etc.

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We are the ones that know how the game needs to be.. sure allow newbies into the fold, but the veteran players are the ones that are gonna give the most incite to feedback, and bug writeup.

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Originally Posted by Kallivis

Good thing the point of a beta is to help test the game and not a "FREE EARLY ACCESS SEE IF YOU LIKE IT" sort of deal.

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Hmmm yeah, why not invite legacy first? They are the ones who are more invested in this game then anyone else and less likely to use beta as a free trial and be there to actually help SE.

But Yoshida seems to have been around the block enough times to make the right call on this. So I trust whatever he decides. (Can't believe I actually said that....)

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Originally Posted by Skies

Gaming culture has grown to believe that open beta testing is actually an advertising/free trial period. I'm... I'm not sure why when there is a clear definition of the word, but.

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Its because most NA gaming culture could care less about testing and all they wanna do is play it before everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Its because most NA gaming culture could care less about testing and all they wanna do is play it before everyone else.

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Or.... because that is really what is going on. (Open beta)

Its not -just- about testing, I dont think it ever was once the idea of "open beta" was born naught from having not enough applications but just for the sake of it.

OP is not permitted to use "inb4"
this is a troll thread, and OP is unsuccessful.
Please stop posting in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Huginn

OP is not permitted to use "inb4"
this is a troll thread, and OP is unsuccessful.
Please stop posting in this thread.

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"If I disagree it's trolling"

Ok chief.

This whole argument is only relevant if there are more beta applications than there is space for players in the Beta.

I like how 85% the people make up percentages.

I do, however, agree legacy members should get priority.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I like how 85% the people make up percentages.

I do, however, agree legacy members should get priority.

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Nah. Some Legacy accounts haven't played for months. Why screw people out who didn't happen to get Legacy, but still play now?

How about a free pair of glasses instead?

http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-s...ses_design.png

It makes sense to me to let current players in, preferably with their actual characters, to beta test the end game content with different configurations of knowledgeable players with good gear to tweak the balance.

Closed beta is for testing, and I think current players would be a better choice. Open beta on the other hand is a free trial that at the same time tests server stress and everyone will be able to get into that if they have that phase anyway.

...wouldn't a mix of players be the best option? You know, from a proper analysis viewpoint?

Don't prioritise legacy, don't prioritise current, don't prioritise others, but ensure you get an even spread. This would ensure maximum coverage from maximum angles for maximum feedback.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I personally think that Legacy members shouldn't be a priority in the beta, seeing as Yoshida isn't making a game for the existing fans that he knows will come back anyway.

I guarantee that over 75% of legacy players will come back even without beta access. He needs to manage who gets the invites, and new players are a better demographic to go after.

inb4 entitled people.

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i have to disagree, the beta test is not a have fun with the new game stuff, they need people that knows what was in the game and what was changed so they can measure how good things added in ARR really are, while new people can help with a fresh view i find more helpful experienced players with the FF genre and of course XIV itself.

If SE wants a bigger market must fix everything really good before the 2nd release, just as an example, the TP thing looks a lot like the stamina system, i hope its implemented in the best way, this time looks like its for skills and ws mostly so im guessing its a lot better than the original concept.

i didnt sign up for beta test because i dont wanna play a messy FFXIV again, i hope those testers are heard and we get a good game, if not...time to move on.

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

Closed beta is for testing, and I think current players would be a better choice. Open beta on the other hand is a free trial that at the same time tests server stress and everyone will be able to get into that if they have that phase anyway.

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............that exactly

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I personally think that Legacy members shouldn't be a priority in the beta, seeing as Yoshida isn't making a game for the existing fans that he knows will come back anyway.

I guarantee that over 75% of legacy players will come back even without beta access. He needs to manage who gets the invites, and new players are a better demographic to go after.

inb4 entitled people.

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Well, your first problem is that you seem to think a Beta is a demo. Although, I get it. Most people treat it as such, but what developer thinks, "Oh! Hey! I better invite people outside of our demographic to sample my game using this buggy client that is really meant to be tested."

/yawn

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Originally Posted by Catapult

...wouldn't a mix of players be the best option? You know, from a proper analysis viewpoint?

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This. The only people who feel they should have priority or are entitled just want to play the game , not test or offer feedback (no one can deny this.) People who don't play or even cared for it are the better choice in terms of priority as they're much more likely to offer feedback and see how things compare and if they feel something is right or not.

People who play now just wants to play, hence why whether true or not (most likely true) people were getting pissy about the potential of a July 2013 release date even after stating SE should take all the time they need to make ARR right, so that should prove most don't care about the testing aspect, they just want to play ARR already lol, so anything offered by current players let alone legacy players would be personal likes/dislikes of the individual, not for the better of the game.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I know that we won't get priority, but I'm pretty sure Yoshida stated he wanted to get 'current' players into it. It's a silly move.

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how is it a silly move? they may lose people :) FFXIV may not be release for other 4-5+months what our current playing even going to do? play other mmo and maybe stay with that but if they can play beta they can enjoy playing it with there linkshell and friends.

Whether or not the priority to get in beta is to be legacy or someone who hasnt played the game at all, really shouldn't matter. In fact, people who are currently playing the game would prove to be better testers as far as testing for bugs, defects, etc.

People who haven't played FFXIV would be better for testing the game as far as story, graphics, and explaining the new game and spreading the hype, if the game does prove to be exciting enough for a hype.

Current players do have the ability to explain what is new and what is carried over form 1.0, but to people who haven't played FFXIV, it is all new to them and it is better off being explained as a new system.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

This. The only people who feel they should have priority or are entitled just want to play the game , not test or offer feedback (no one can deny this.) People who don't play or even cared for it are the better choice in terms of priority as they're much more likely to offer feedback and see how things compare and if they feel something is right or not.

People who play now just wants to play, hence why whether true or not (most likely true) people were getting pissy about the potential of a July 2013 release date even after stating SE should take all the time they need to make ARR right, so that should prove most don't care about the testing aspect, they just want to play ARR already lol, so anything offered by current players let alone legacy players would be personal likes/dislikes of the individual, not for the better of the game.

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I agree that a mix is best but I don't quite agree that legacy players will not offer productive feed back and "just want to play". I'm pretty certain that if you got in you would offer loads of feedback because of your experience with the current version. Sure there may be a lot of people who just want in to be able to play but that wont detract from their ability to provide good insight into how things feel based on their experience with 1.0.

New players will judge the beta on its merits alone but wont have that basis of comparison that a current player would have. I think Yoshi and Co. would want both types of people to tell them how things feel. I know when my kids fight I talk to them separately and ask them each what happened, compare the stories in my head, then piece together a picture of what most likely is the case. If SE is smart, and I think they are, then they will do this throughout the whole beta/alpha process.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

I agree that a mix is best but I don't quite agree that legacy players will not offer productive feed back and "just want to play". I'm pretty certain that if you got in you would offer loads of feedback because of your experience with the current version. Sure there may be a lot of people who just want in to be able to play but that wont detract from their ability to provide good insight into how things feel based on their experience with 1.0.

New players will judge the beta on its merits alone but wont have that basis of comparison that a current player would have. I think Yoshi and Co. would want both types of people to tell them how things feel. I know when my kids fight I talk to them separately and ask them each what happened, compare the stories in my head, then piece together a picture of what most likely is the case. If SE is smart, and I think they are, then they will do this throughout the whole beta/alpha process.

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While true, the opinions of those who never played should have the most weight as that's the targeted playerbase SE wants the most, since let's face it..ARR isn't for "us" in the same priority as it is for them.

If a current player says "This quest is great!", it's much more likely because in comparison to 1.0's quest system, it is great, however if a player who never touched XIV says "This quest is horribly done, you shouldn't have to do x, x, x" chances are, they're comparing it to other MMOs with the same quest system. So while it isn't always the case, it's much more unlikely of them to be comparing 1.0's system to ARR's system and that's the feedback SE should be caring about the most honestly. So while both is good, you'd want to lean more towards the group of players you're trying to capture.

I think that many legacy players would spend at least some time comparing the beta to the 1.x game at a feature level, while new players would not. When Yoshi announced the alpha, he used the words "our internal testing is complete."

If we file defects in the beta regarding an otherwise functional feature that works differently than in 1.x, we're highly likely to get a works as designed rejection. If SE accepted feature change requests, the beta would span a much longer time than if they do not.

We already know Yoshi's intentions

[To get as many existing players that want to try ARR in as quickly as possible - but he also doesn't want to create a major priority on those who have played previously as he also wants to give those new players a chance to see what ARR is all about.]

So its going to be a mix - and I can assure you (just like in most testing stages) the earlier stages will be mostly those who can do what are told, can report bugs, and wont cry to momma when it sucks. So that would be us in the beginning - but at a certain point they may switch it up so that we become a minority inflow . . likely around open beta.

Besides there is a limited amount us :P