KO - effect and penalty [suggestion]

the KO status and penalty is much discussed and seeing all the mixed opinions i gave it a longer thought.
As it is now many agree that dying in this game is no big deal, punishment is lush, other however oppose the idea of adding a SP penalty.
All sides make good points imo.

In my idea it may not be necessary to work with harsh penalties, especially penalties that are plain annoying. I think fearing the death because of annoying consequences would not be the right way to go.

The death lacks excitement, trill and stress and i would try to improve the event of 'death' using dramatic and psychological element.

As it is now... you loos all HP, you moan "uuggh" and fall... that is it...
That is not very exciting!

Imagine: When getting dangerously low on HP:
- the sound theme would change to something more urgent
- you would hear a heart beat
- some visual effect on the screen, red glow around the corners, blurry/shaky vision or something... nothing annoying! It must look cool!

Using the right means you can create excitement and stress! You must make the player aware of the danger! Make the player feel relieve when getting healed again.

And then... in the moment of death! There must be some dramatic effect! Great visual and a great SFX!

If the game play is exciting and the effects dramatic and shocking then it would be a lot more fun!

And if you want to add a penalty, it should be something creative and not annoying like gear damage or SP loss.
Be creative!

For example, if a player dies in a party you could have a series of immediate penalties that would affect some or all party members:

If a player dies, there could be some sort of shock-wave and:

- the shock wave would kick back all party members
- people nearby could suffer HP loss (maybe within a radius)
- all party could suffer some TP/MP loss
- party members could suffer from various status effects (poison, blind and so on)
- loss of all protective buffs

and others...

not all penalties at the same time of course, it would depend on the party setup and situation.

If done right this could be a very exciting experience.


Also instead of lying round on the ground in a sleeping position the characters could move a bit... gesture for help, show pain.... that would be fun

KO effect? - No, I don't want to get embarrass more

KO penalty? - Yes, but after they fix everything like.... the defensive status from gears, Protect & Shell, rebalance everything in combat system. make everything right before add those punishment to players who die because of broken system

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Originally Posted by Randis

the KO status and penalty is much discussed and seeing all the mixed opinions i gave it a longer thought.
As it is now many agree that dying in this game is no big deal, punishment is lush, other however oppose the idea of adding a SP penalty.
All sides make good points imo.

In my idea it may not be necessary to work with harsh penalties, especially penalties that are plain annoying. I think fearing the death because of annoying consequences would not be the right way to go.

The death lacks excitement, trill and stress and i would try to improve the event of 'death' using dramatic and psychological element.

As it is now... you loos all HP, you moan "uuggh" and fall... that is it...
That is not very exciting!

Imagine: When getting dangerously low on HP:
- the sound theme would change to something more urgent
- you would hear a heart beat
- some visual effect on the screen, red glow around the corners, blurry/shaky vision or something... nothing annoying! It must look cool!

Using the right means you can create excitement and stress! You must make the player aware of the danger! Make the player feel relieve when getting healed again.

And then... in the moment of death! There must be some dramatic effect! Great visual and a great SFX!

If the game play is exciting and the effects dramatic and shocking then it would be a lot more fun!

And if you want to add a penalty, it should be something creative and not annoying like gear damage or SP loss.
Be creative!

For example, if a player dies in a party you could have a series of immediate penalties that would affect some or all party members:

If a player dies, there could be some abstract explosion and:

- the shock wave would kick back all party members
- people nearby could suffer HP loss (maybe within a radius)
- all party could suffer some TP/MP loss
- party members could suffer from various status effects (poison, blind and so on)
- loss of all protective buffs

If done right this could be a very exciting experience.

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Um, while I agree the death system needs some edits. I would remind you that we are adventurers, not time bombs.

Minesweeper Fantasy XIV, on the other hand...

very funny.
with a abstract explosion effect i meant something more of a shock-wave, force that would push back and punish the other party members. i fixed that

hey but I want died --> return effect! become spirit balls like FFX style

I'll enjoy my dying more

it's been long enough! it's your world now!! (become spirit balls)

"you loose all HP, you moan "uuggh" and fall... that is it..."


thats every game in a nutshell that is rated T. Death meant to be annoying thats about it. All you need to learn is how not to die. You shouldn't need silly artificial penalties. Only maybe a weakness status thats 5 min long that reduced your hp/mp/attack/defence. Its up to the player to be willing to learn how to avoid it. But mostly ppl will just try to find work arounds to prevent it since it just wastes time. Like in ffxi ppl got Power leveled.

The only death type in games that had any impact are the "game over" ones which again was just a time waste if anything. And only got ppl to learn how not to die. It don't make them any better, or worst.

I don't care if I die in a game, I just learn I shouldn't do whatever i did to make me die. But all in all death will happen even if you know how to avoid it.

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Originally Posted by Randis

very funny.

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Something along your suggestion, however would be this idea...

Notice how when your character is hit with paralyze or bind, the fighting stancee changes? Have one for 25% hp or less (critical). Whether that in itself is a status effect can be optional, then again, that would likely cause today's breed of player to riot.

I think having visual effects on the screen or similar when ur hp goes down would be annoying especially for a tank after the first 3-4 times. our hp is usually low.We already look "fatigued " or somethin when hp is low or have status effect.

I do agree some new ideas for the penalty would be cool.SP/exp/gear damage are all old concepts.
I cant think of any right now but ill post if i get any good idea.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Something along your suggestion, however would be this idea...

Notice how when your character is hit with paralyze or bind, the fighting stancee changes? Have one for 25% hp or less (critical). Whether that in itself is a status effect can be optional, then again, that would likely cause today's breed of player to riot.

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A change of the stance when low on HP wold be great.

i like that the stance changes when you have the sleep or paralyze status... but i hate that you still can walk around while asleep or paralyzed...

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If a player dies, there could be some sort of shock-wave and:

- the shock wave would kick back all party members
- people nearby could suffer HP loss (maybe within a radius)
- all party could suffer some TP/MP loss
- party members could suffer from various status effects (poison, blind and so on)
- loss of all protective buffs

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I think some of those effects would cause a chain reaction of player deaths fairly often, which while being really funny would probably also be very frustrating, dont get me wrong if there was a specific encounter that triggered this kind of stuff on death then it'd be awesome.

however this

Quote:

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Imagine: When getting dangerously low on HP:
- the sound theme would change to something more urgent
- you would hear a heart beat
- some visual effect on the screen, red glow around the corners, blurry/shaky vision or something... nothing annoying! It must look cool!

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yes, I like it, and a few more death animations would be nice.

It does not have to look annoying at all, it must be well designed. It must never cover or disturb the center of the screen or the interface. It does not have to be bold but it can have a psychological effect.

It is all possible.

When watching a good movie, SFX, music and visuals can control your mood without interaction.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

I think having visual effects on the screen or similar when ur hp goes down would be annoying especially for a tank after the first 3-4 times. our hp is usually low.We already look "fatigued " or somethin when hp is low or have status effect.
.

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Originally Posted by Nephera

I think some of those effects would cause a chain reaction of player deaths fairly often, which while being really funny would probably also be very frustrating, don't get me wrong if there was a specific encounter that triggered this kind of stuff on death then it'd be awesome.
.

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I mentioned that not all of them would take effect and the punishment does not have to be drastic but it could add trill and excitement and certainly a reason not to die...
people would adapt and adjust i think.

If you've got blind - your screen become all dark

If you've got confuse - your screen will shaking and spinning

or confuse = invert directional button layout

Honestly what would be really cool is if some monsters (maybe NMs) would do a killing move on the player/players.

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Originally Posted by Randis

It does not have to look annoying at all, it must be well designed. It must never cover or disturb the center of the screen or the interface. It does not have to be bold but it can have a psychological effect.

It is all possible.

When watching a good movie, SFX, music and visuals can control your mood without interaction.

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I guess, but taking it by their record of "in your face" status , i would be weary of this XD.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

If you've got blind - your screen become all dark

If you've got confuse - your screen will shaking and spinning

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Lol, I remember this from EQ! The screen would go black when hit with a flash type spell. The programmers feared nothing back in those days...

When done right, interface screw is something else. XD

fresh wind, innovation and creativity would do the game good.
I wish the developer would go crazy on some of the features.

This after all is a game, everything is possible.

I like these ideas, I for one would love a better death animation or a more drama one atleast. As for the wave after death I'd say just toss up a debuff for x ammount of time "Loss of Morale" (status effects here).

Maybe something like all damage done reduced by 10% until dead member is back in the fight. Or give mobs a attack/attack speed increase after killing a player.

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Originally Posted by Randis

the KO status and penalty is much discussed and seeing all the mixed opinions i gave it a longer thought. [/B]

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hearth beat, effects when we are near to die... yes I have played Rift,
it's really annoying.
The first time is "what? whaaaat?"
the 2nd time "what?"
the 3rd time in a fight is "hey is there an option to remove this effect?"
I can accept something like a black and white sight, but I don't think my graphic card agree.
This graphic engine is already heavy for a mid-quality computer.

poison/blind... in DDO there is a complete blind, you don't see anithing, and your game is broken until you recover. woah, nice.
In Ragnarok online there os a purple effect when you are poisoned...hmmmm accettable but still boring.
Anyway these effects are ugly for a blear-eyed player.

Just a thing,I don't understand why there are so many thread around the death. Do players really think death is so important? People don't leave for no death penalties, people leave because after a while, this game is repetitive (and the character is alive, ofc).

i never played rift but just because one game does it wrong it does not mean that it could not be made right.

There certainly a boatload of games that at least use it as a warning. And what about all the FPS games? They look like they're trying to outdo each other by tying it in with the health system! there is something lacking with this system, if I had the hp bar hidden or in the midst of combat, I wouldn't tell one fighter unharmed from one 5hp from death. Or even my own condition.

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Originally Posted by Randis

i never played rift but just because one game does it wrong it does not mean that it could not be made right.

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Ok, I'll try to figure what happens

100% heal... you are attacked.... 10% and you hear an heartbeat and the screen start to become grey... heal and you return at.. let's say 80% max HP, 3. seconds and the bar return under 10% and you hear another time heartbeat and the screen is grey... heal! and it returns normal.

Now think this cycle for 5 minutes. When you fight a difficult encounter, where the healer needs to spam, it's really annoying. If this effect is active... hmmm..1-2 times every 5 minutes it should be ok, but how can you manage this idea in a game where you can die every time a big monster hit you?
In a FPS you are not healspammed.

It would have to be balanced and designed smartly of course.
A heartbeat sound for instance would need to fade in softly and only after a period of time so that it does not sound annoying if the tank drops to red level all the time.
But let's say the heal does not come, then the effect would show. The trick would be to make it seamless and not abrupt like a fire alarm.

Same goes for the critical music.
Effects must blend in seamless. That is something that is done with a lot of tweaking and effort.
The quality and success would depend on the level of sophistication you put into something.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

Ok, I'll try to figure what happens

100% heal... you are attacked.... 10% and you hear an heartbeat and the screen start to become grey... heal and you return at.. let's say 80% max HP, 3. seconds and the bar return under 10% and you hear another time heartbeat and the screen is grey... heal! and it returns normal.

Now think this cycle for 5 minutes. When you fight a difficult encounter, where the healer needs to spam, it's really annoying. If this effect is active... hmmm..1-2 times every 5 minutes it should be ok, but how can you manage this idea in a game where you can die every time a big monster hit you?
In a FPS you are not healspammed.

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