Retainer/AH system, a little confused?

Hey guys,

I thought SE said we were getting an AH in ARR? All I hear now is revamping the retainer system in ARR which saddens me.

I just feel like its going to hold ARR back some what, I'm only speculating as I want ARR to be a success. I can't see any reviews being positive on this system with 'retainer' attached to it when ARR drops because of the past.

I just hate the idea of many retainers in an area for no use what so ever, depending on how good the search and engine is it can't display them all so why even have them shown if all we will be doing is buying from search and occasionally spawn them to transfer items across.

I would much rather have a mog house xP or the old school counter and a nice setting to chill around in, I miss the fountain and ah area in Bastok hehe!

This has most likely been discussed to death but its the only thing that I have deep concerns about.

Maybe I have missed something with regards to an AH, so if someone could clarify that would be superrrrrr.

Thanks

Yes they are really crazy if they are keeping the market wards. Retainers should have a different purpose instead of being market ward bazaar zombies.

Auction house is one the few things that alot of players WILL NOT compromise on. Either selling/buying is easy and convenient or you lose alot of potential players.

or else you could wait some specific info on the new market wards <_<

I'm not entirely against the whole retainer thing, having them hold your excess garbage and having the sales performed from their inventory is fine... However, I'm against having them stand still in a crowded room to show off their wares. Sales and purchases should be exclusively menu-based and optimized for quick searching. If that's what they're moving towards, I'm OK with it.

Not really anything could make the market wards good without it being a worse version of AH.

We already know that retainers have an increased bazaar which means we will selling through retainers. Which makes it automatically less convenient and more time consuming then other MMO AHs.

Its doesnt matter if current fans don't mind market wards. Its just fact that this game will lose alot of potential subscribers if they dont implement a good auction house. Most people who quit this game will ask . Does this still have market wards? and then not bother to pick up this game because of the horrible experience with market wards.

I second this, would much rather have an AH where you can chill at in town and see stuff rather than teleporting into the MW. I'd rather have the mog house idea back, pretty much like the inn we have now but allow storage of all items instead of the select few currently.

Incoming moaners with there "I like MWs because its like I'm really shopping for me items".

In reply to this: Yea but least when you go shopping you can see all the shops around u and not have to wait for them to appear! :D

I have no faith in SE when it comes to UI, menus and Time Convenience . They have proven they are very incompetent with UI making , Have Lag and poor design and have time consuming actions and menus.

When it comes to epic storyline and epic characters now i have faith they will deliver this because they have proven this.

but when i read market wards / increased retainer bazaar ... Alarm bells ring for me. So i think we should complain about this.

I agree that it needs to be all menu based, I just don't like the idea of them all spawned in a certain area, they've even said on the new engine they won't be able to show them all so I'm just very confused as to why they are keeping it that way.

I personally think we should all have our own instance where we can store/access/list our stuff, whether that be in our inns or w/e.

I can only go off what we had/have right now and its just awfully cumbersome, I have had things on my 2 retainers now for years because I just can't be bothered going through the hassle of noting down prices, running back/forth and listing things.

I know a lot of people who dual box or run multiple instances of the game on their computers, me included! Surely this isn't what they intended. ;p

I hope they have thought this through, I honestly think it could be one of the things that will make or break this game. I don't want to read reviews months from now saying what the hell were they thinking keeping market wards and retainers.

I just wanted to start a discussion on this pressing matter beforehand so it can be dealt with asap.

I hope we get some information/video footage sooner rather than later.

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Originally Posted by leomax

Hey guys,

I thought SE said we were getting an AH in ARR?

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Give link or it never happened
They just say they put more AH features to the market wards

from the pdf files

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Complete redesign of markets into a system incorporating retainers and auction house elements. Planned for version 2.0.

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Ah that was it, I remember AH being in there but it was a while back so thats why I asked.

I'll just await further information but it isn't looking good in my eyes.

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Originally Posted by leomax

I have had things on my 2 retainers now for years because I just can't be bothered going through the hassle of noting down prices and listing things.

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This has got to be the most annoying aspect of the whole system, having to note down/remember the prices and running back to your retainer and then price each item.

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Originally Posted by AntonyB

This has got to be the most annoying aspect of the whole system, having to note down/remember the prices and running back to your retainer and then price each item.

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I'm sure they can change this without abandon the market ward. All what it need is a way to see the prices in the retainer menu. Or have acess to the retainer menu in the market ward menu.

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Originally Posted by Felis

I'm sure they can change this without abandon the market ward. All what it need is a way to see the prices in the retainer menu. Or have acess to the retainer menu in the market ward menu.

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Have we forgot who this is here? Something this simple and easy to use is way beyond SE.

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Originally Posted by AntonyB

Have we forgot who this is here? Something this simple and easy to use is way beyond SE.

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They plan to give us access to retainer menu with apps. So access to retainer menu in the MW menu shouldn't be a problem.

AH or bust!

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Originally Posted by Felis

They plan to give us access to retainer menu with apps. So access to retainer menu in the MW menu shouldn't be a problem.

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What are the benefits of the MW system compared to an AH system? You are talking about planning to do this and planning to do that, but ALL that would be resolved with a storage/AH system instead of these MWs. Like they have said, they will make it so that not all will appear in ARR so what is the point now? :S

I think my biggest gripe with this market wards rubbish are the retainer's themselves.

Handing my items to my retainers has always felt like a system held together by gaffer tape and staples.
"Sir, the game is to be released in 4 days time and there's nowhere for players to place the items they have painstakingly gathered over the course of their adventure, what should we do?!"

When I hand items to my retainer I don't feel like I have ownership over those items. Whilst everything my retainer carries does belong to me anything outside of where my retainer is standing doesn't. It’s not uncommon to picture your retainer as a hollow kitten, some kind of sadistic version of the Fat Chocobo.
If I were to draw an overhead map of the wards and do a heatmap of where feels safe and what I feel is hardly sufficient monument to what I, a hard-working player and subscriber of FFXIV have worked towards it would be a tiny little blip on the north-west side.

Nobody likes a communal shower.

It's not like I have my items nicely organised in a storage system, ready to be plucked at any time (which admittedly is how I feel about the system, not how it actually works), instead we hand our items to an NPC that has no relevance to our characters and then have them stand around in a big warehouse all day. Why are the market wards inside, oh God why are they inside!?

So retainer, these items you are holding. Where are they? How are you holding them? How are people buying them from you? How am I being taxed for these items when they sell? Why are you employed to do this?
I've got my eye on you...

I hate to use XI as an example but even then we couldn't see our Mog Safe however we were satisfied in knowing that somewhere in our room our Moogle had a place to store these items. Moogles work in Mog Houses, there's no question about that, it's believable!

Handing my items to a young man at the auction house so he can fumble around with it until some silly adventurer purchases it feels like I'm officially selling an item. Telling my retainer to sell some Mole Sinew at a certain price feels like I've just set up a backdoor abortion clinic.

It's essentially the same system, NPC holds items except with major differences. NPC is familiar to the player, has a personality and the player feels they have their own space where their items are being kept.


I understand that this is just a system and that the cosmetics don't really mean anything in regards to how it operates but that doesn't change how it feels. Perhaps us adventurer’s can carry around a buttload of items all day but handing in my pretties to a cat standing about in a concentration camp isn't an appropriate atmosphere.

in FFXIV ARR : one or two Retainer ?

MW/AH whats the difference your gonna get under cut anyways.

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Originally Posted by indira

MW/AH whats the difference your gonna get under cut anyways.

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Not necessarily, I think the reason people undercut so much now is because we've such a poor system.
It's a lot of effort to look at what items you want to sell, see the appropriate price and then put yours at a price to match that. Why bother remember it do an exact unit when you can just place it 5k under and be done with it?

Add server menu wait times on top of that, too. Each time you interact with your retainer you feel like you've been locked up indoors to do homework when instead you want to be having Adventure time.

The game has fed this habit with poor design and that's why it's infested with it.

The revamped MW/AH system designed by Yoshi-P's team is one of the last things I'm worried about. We also have no information about this other than a year-old PDF file and knowledge that we will still have retainers.

All this hullabaloo over nothing.

Yoshi bitched over and over about how the old servers were the reason he was so limited in how much he could improve the MW system, and that in 2.0 he could finally do what he wanted. So he clearly is changing it. And until then, we wait. So wait.

I'm with the OP. I can't see a retainer system as a market functioning in ARR. It's crazy that they want to use a system everyone is against. People want to have easy access to a market where they can sell and buy items with ease. We don't want to go into an instance, then click through 10 different menus to get to see what we want to buy.

Also, in order to sell some items and you want to know the prices of such item, you have to go to the market menu, check prices, then go back to your retainer, do a bunch of click, wait for the item list to load, then pick the exchange item menu, put item in retainer, get out of the menu, click on bazaar menu, look through your list for the item, click item, input the price you want to use to sell item, get out of the menu, wait a few second for your avatar to be able to move again. THIS IS MIND BOGGLING.

All I want is (go to AH window, click buy or sell, items appear, choose item, and pick if you want to buy or not) simple...

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Originally Posted by eruntalo

The revamped MW/AH system designed by Yoshi-P's team is one of the last things I'm worried about. We also have no information about this other than a year-old PDF file and knowledge that we will still have retainers.

All this hullabaloo over nothing.

Yoshi bitched over and over about how the old servers were the reason he was so limited in how much he could improve the MW system, and that in 2.0 he could finally do what he wanted. So he clearly is changing it. And until then, we wait. So wait.

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I wish I could give you another +1 just for your character name!

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Originally Posted by eruntalo

The revamped MW/AH system designed by Yoshi-P's team is one of the last things I'm worried about. We also have no information about this other than a year-old PDF file and knowledge that we will still have retainers.

All this hullabaloo over nothing.

Yoshi bitched over and over about how the old servers were the reason he was so limited in how much he could improve the MW system, and that in 2.0 he could finally do what he wanted. So he clearly is changing it. And until then, we wait. So wait.

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I'm sure if we keep the conversation going about this topic, one of the rep will response or at least inquire about it from Yoshi to give more details. But, if we are complacent with what SE says and wait it might send the message that we are ok with whatever information they give us. We want details. I can understand when sometimes they held back information in certain things, but if SE is committed to a retainer system, then why held back any details in this regard?

So, I say let's keep posting and let SE know what our feelings are in regards to a retainer or AH system.

It always amazes me how we can know something for-literally-ever and hear nary a peep from people. And then at the last minute people show up with picket signs.

If you didn't even know this was what they were doing with the market until now, how can you claim it is an important issue to you?

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Originally Posted by HamHam

I'm with the OP. I can't see a retainer system as a market functioning in ARR. It's crazy that they want to use a system everyone is against.

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Most people are against the market ward 1.0. Most people can't explain what they don't like on market ward 2.0

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People want to have easy access to a market where they can sell and buy items with ease. We don't want to go into an instance, then click through 10 different menus to get to see what we want to buy.

Also, in order to sell some items and you want to know the prices of such item, you have to go to the market menu, check prices, then go back to your retainer, do a bunch of click, wait for the item list to load, then pick the exchange item menu, put item in retainer, get out of the menu, click on bazaar menu, look through your list for the item, click item, input the price you want to use to sell item, get out of the menu, wait a few second for your avatar to be able to move again. THIS IS MIND BOGGLING.

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Like this. You explain with this what you don't like on market ward 1.0. Now, can you explain what you don't like on market ward 2.0?
Take time to explain, I'm waiting until the beta.

lets wait for beta i would say. it doesnt have to be an AH, if it does its purpose and does it good ther should be no problem.
If its no good, we just start crying.

The difficulty I have with using the Market Wards is that I have to know exactly what I'm looking for.

I like to browse.

I like to browse through the available weapons for my class and see what options are available. I like to browse through gear to see what's available, and quickly scroll up and down the list to compare. I can't do this with the market wards as they are currently designed.

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I thought SE said we were getting an AH in ARR? All I hear now is revamping the retainer system in ARR which saddens me.

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You thought wrong. We're getting a market that has all the features of an AH plus more, but still uses retainers. The markets will be integrated that is all 3 cities truly linked, and improvements to the system will be made. The markets are not being removed or replaced, but they are being revised.

We dont know what the end result will be. Maybe it will be some sort of wards/AH hybrid? Im not worried regardless.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You thought wrong. We're getting a market that has all the features of an AH plus more, but still uses retainers.

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So where do you get that from? I didn't see any Information about anything we are getting that is more then an AH can offer...
The only thing I saw that will be changed is the option for search for HQ items and the City linking. Nothing AH can't do. And there are still limitations of the system we have now I didn't see any information that it gets bether.

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Originally Posted by Deatheye

So where do you get that from? I didn't see any Information about anything we are getting that is more then an AH can offer...
The only thing I saw that will be changed is the option for search for HQ items and the City linking. Nothing AH can't do. And there are still limitations of the system we have now I didn't see any information that it gets bether.

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Where'd i get that from? the fact that the community team has mentioned fixes and improvements to the markts on multiple occasions as well as Yoshida mentioning improvements to retainers.

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The only thing I saw that will be changed is the option for search for HQ items and the City linking. Nothing AH can't do. And there are still limitations of the system we have now I didn't see any information that it gets bether.

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The markets already do more than FFXI's AH, the system touted by many, did. You can search by typing in an item name or partial name. Your retainer can seek to purchase items, and repair them. No AH I've ever seen can do that. The server systems are being optimized, which means faster menus, which means faster transferring and listing of items.

The buying process already works like any AH. The selling process needs a lot of efficiency improvements, but they're working on that. People keep begging for an AH, but other than the fact that listing items for sale is rather clumsy, we already have an AH. Little by little it's been gradually transforming into one over the last year, and it seems it will continue to evolve in 2.0, as they're not scrapping retainers (but hopefully will make them a lot faster/easier to use).

Not to be the "this thread again" guy but, I think people should really wait and see how the new MW is going to work before bashing it. They've said multiple times they've completely redesigned it. If I were to put money on it, I'd say it's probably going to be almost exactly like an AH. The only thing that people are really confused by is the fact that it's still going to be called a Market Ward and that leaves a bitter taste in people's mouths.

MW/Retainer system is fine, and is going to get better in ARR.