2.0 Finished consumable stack size suggestion

Please consider reducing stack size from x99 to 12 for most finished consumables for 2.0. For both alchemy and culinary, x99 stack size will kill any chance of a market on an even more populated server with the addition of more cooks and alchemists. Reducing the stack size will enable competitive pricing, make crafting overage harder to move, and in short stop mass market creation as inventory will then be even more precious.

12 is a favorable size as it provides 360 minutes of food and for alchemy an hour, on average, of medicinal support factoring in cool down timer. Players would obviously be free to carry more than one stack of an item, but would have to take into consideration the matter of inventory.

I can understand the functionality for x99, but as far as practicality I feel it hurts far more than it helps.

Thanks for reading

>Has 12 stack limit
>asks for 99 limit
>gets 99 limit
>asks for 12 limit
>mfw

one word: NO!

i do not want to see full inventory 24/7 all over again.

Where is the dislike button? Do not want.

We're losing half our inventory in 2.0 and you want stack sizes reduced by over 8x ? No thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Orophin

We're losing half our inventory in 2.0 and you want stack sizes reduced by over 8x ? No thanks.

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This is correct, for finish consumable items.

I fail to see how any of your supposed points in favor of x12 stack size are valid.

You fail to see how it enables competitive pricing and makes it harder to inundate the market with useless product?

competive pricing? why? people wouldnt buy it because it takes to much space, it would become so cheap that it wouldnt be a point in being a chef or alchemist at all.

Example. You finish your hard day of mixing or cooking, but today you are cooking for profit and not for a skillup. You check market value for the day and proceed to set your product out on the market.


You check the amount of units sold on average via previous sells, and there you find 24 purchases in a two day span averaging around 15 units each. Two days, 15 units on average within 24 purchases that is 360 units in 48 hours.

Then you find someone who has also mixed/cooked for the day. It seems they have placed 5 stacks of x99 at an undercutted price of the seller before. That is 495 units placed out on the market at an undercut price as before - this is all within one day. Not to mention every other chef and alchemist who will now also place their product up for the day, also at a competitive rate.

According to recent history that one person has set enough product on the market to meet demand for more than two days. If this had been x12, and even in the dramatic world where you insist there is no portable or personal storage and we don't return to town to shout for events every 2 hours, that one person would not be able to place enough supply on the market to dramatically reduce the cost of one product.

In short my argument is x99 is far too much for most consumable items. Ingredients, and materials should go unchanged. A few consumables should be stackable to x99, but I feel to keep both crafts relevant a deduction in stack size must be made. How you fail to see this as a solution for competitive pricing is beyond me, and cannot be helped. You can simply disagree - it is your right.

well, if it was stacks of 12, i would put 42 stacks on AH with it instead, i wouldnt vendor them, ord rather, i wouldnt make them for others anymore, and i certainly wouldnt buy them, they would take up to much space, and id only buy at undercut prices in that case.

if i want to buy food or potions, id buy a stack of 99, then i wouldnt need to be scared of getting low in middle of a run or something. And having to buy 12 new potions after every run, well, thats just idiotic. if it was stacks of 12, people wont use them, this was proved before, as one could have lots of stacks on market for far underpriced, and it would take a week to sell even one.

if people want to put 500 units of an item on a market, they will do it no matter if its stacks of 12 or 99, the difference is, who will want to buy it? not many.

edit:
you really dont want to look at the other side of the coin, right?

yes, it might be easier to sell it for higher price, but as a buyer, would you buy a stack of 12 potions every 3 hours? no? then who would?
you must look at this from a buyers eyes and not only your own. Competitive selling wont exist if it is no buyers.

Last I checked retainer had bazaar limits. So no, you could place 500 up. Also your underpriced small stacks would be pushed as one unit. The entire stack of undercut goods would likely go before it could profoundly affect the market.


12 poultices/dishes should last you 3 hours. You are over exaggerating just a bit to prove your point. Also there would be nothing stopping you from carrying more than one stack of an item if sizes were reduced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baxter

The entire stack of undercut goods would likely go before it could profoundly affect the market.

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You absolutely underestimate the market..99% of the people who sell stuff do it by undercutting others, that's why prices for everything keep constantly falling. Just because ONE person can only put up 20 stacks of a certain good doesn't mean the market will go unaffected by it. There will be TONS of other players who will even undercut the undercutter in the few hours his stacks are up.
It basically means the market will be affected anyways.
But from the consumer's point of view it's absolutely horrible to make consumables 12-stack again instead of 99, especially with the reduction of inventory slots.
Just because you return to town once an hour doesn't mean everyone does. I know many people who stay out in the field for many hours, and I often do that myself as well.
Especially with content I often die on - which basically means using food every 3-10 minutes.
A stack of 12 wouldn't even last an hour..and all of that for something that wouldn't even help "the market" at all?
No thanks.

I am the one under estimating the market? Prices keep falling and this has nothing to do with the sheer amount of quantity that is up for sale?

edit:
Undercutting will be forever apart of life. It will occur. Smaller quantity forces it out of the system quicker, you would be surprised how fast prices stabilize. This is directly tied to what is currently available. 5 x99, versus 5x12. If 360 are moved in a 48 hour time period you are still only selling 360 units. The remaining x99 will linger and stagnate prices.

No thanks. I remember being limited to 12x stacks....it wasn't fun. While the price would most certainly go up in the market, the cons outweigh the pros for this. Start mining or pick up alchemy (along with fishing)and you'll make a ton of gil.

Thank you for the suggestions, but this is more about preserving the future of both classes and not lining my own pockets with gil. If 2.0 brings in massive influx of new players, along with all the capped 50s we have now there will be a problem. I knew this suggestion would be unpopular, but I wouldn't have made it if I felt it wasn't needed.


When we had restrictive stack sizes foods and medicines were not widely use, nor popular. What people remember were the very basic of things only stacking to x12. I am sure this has caused many much frustration. I want to reiterate that I am suggesting finished products stack to 12, not materials, ingredients, and a few certain medicinal/culinary products.

I remember leveling alchemist and vendoring potions all the time, untill i stopped being alchemist, it was no fun at all. Then they adding the abilithy to make shards out of fish, finally you didnt have to check a vendor every 5 minutes and use 10 minutes just to sell crap. You want this for your own moneymaking. What everyone else want is to actually enjoy the game. If you get your competiitive market because noone wants to play that class, do you think SE would get happy? no, we would see all over the forums: "omg you destroyed alchemist, im never gonna play this crap game again. *ragequit*" and yes, this has happened once before already, 12 per stack of potions where the main reason noone ever used them. Yes, they where good, everyone knew that, but with a LONG cooldown and only 12 per stack, noone wanted to buy them, and btw, ive been alchemist for 2 years now, i know how this worked.

I do not believe any of those things will happens as you've said. You are being very presumptuous of my own motives as I feel the opposite, both classes will be ruined by the current stack size.

You are viewing my post as a rant, it is only but a suggestion. It is really none of your business, but I make my money just fine.

Wait, if the average amount of new cooks and alchemists will increase with the amount of new players, wouldn't the amount of people using food likely increase too, thus also increasing the amount of food moved per day?

Yes, the amount foods and medicines moved in a day will increase. If you take a look at the current wards you can see how most consumables still go unsold. Honestly, it is much of a problem now though most players are more preoccupied with getting all crafts to 50 so it is not as evident.

Even if you triple my example of 360 units pushed in 48 hours, you come up to 1080 units. One person selling 5 stacks of x99 would be able to meet nearly half of the demand for two days. Imagine now, multiply the number of crafters for each individual craft(if 2.0 is successful). Crafting jobs exist to make money, and the fix for for any job or class should never be "level another job/class."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

>Has 12 stack limit
>asks for 99 limit
>gets 99 limit
>asks for 12 limit
>mfw

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fixxed that for you.

but really I don't want to lose what item space i have

weve had 12 stacks before, and the stuff never moved.. just because it has an option of going to 99 doesnt mean you have to sell 99. i can tell you right now.. most of the finished product ive sold hasnt sold in batches of 99...

so heres an idea.. take what you have, undercut another and walk away with profit

99 x 2000

39 x 1800 (watch how much faster this one sells)

when you had x12 stacks before, it never moved for a ton of reasons. There was no way to search in wards and both food and medicine were considered useless.

Many of the alchemy products are terrible and wont be bought no matter what stack size limit you apply to them....
Limiting stack size might help the selling of items but i'm not sure that it will, x2 retainers per character, 8 characters per server(if i remember rightly) thats a heck of a lot of slots to sell medicinals in. What will really boost sales is making more alchemy items actually worth buying/selling so that there are more items for alchemists to invest in thus reducing congestion on a small number of useful products. Same goes for culinarian i suppose. Also new items that use those alchemy/culinarian items in their recipes would also boost sales so as to create that new item eg food that use potions and potions that use food etc etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Orophin

We're losing half our inventory in 2.0 and you want stack sizes reduced by over 8x ? No thanks.

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First of all we aren' losing half our inventory, when you factor in the inventory space gains on our retainers and the increased retainer bazaars the total loss comes out to -40 inventory slots. 40 out of 530? thats less than 10%...

As for the OP, I understand how x12 finished consumables ensures a more even competitive market pricing but from a crafter's perspective this would be horrible. I recently made 1500 dated silver rings and let me tell you how fun it is to stop every 30 minutes and npc 75 rings... it's not. Now imagine grinding your luminary items or just skilling up alchemy and cul and having to do the same thing. It just becomes a logistical nightmare.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

Many of the alchemy products are terrible and wont be bought no matter what stack size limit you apply to them....
Limiting stack size might help the selling of items but i'm not sure that it will, x2 retainers per character, 8 characters per server(if i remember rightly) thats a heck of a lot of slots to sell medicinals in. What will really boost sales is making more alchemy items actually worth buying/selling so that there are more items for alchemists to invest in thus reducing congestion on a small number of useful products. Same goes for culinarian i suppose. Also new items that use those alchemy/culinarian items in their recipes would also boost sales so as to create that new item eg food that use potions and potions that use food etc etc.

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while this is true it's a totally different topic all together. My point is even if it were fantastic boosts to consumables and everyone lined up to purchase these fantastical goods, it wouldn't change the fact that 3 people on the entire server could technically meet every demand there is. Therein lies the flaw with the current stack size.



and I agree with you Matsume. I feel if it remains this way everyone will come to see this as a flaw and it will outweigh the convenience of holding x99.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baxter

You fail to see how it enables competitive pricing and makes it harder to inundate the market with useless product?

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Competitive pricing for the producer or for the consumer? what is really favorable depends on PoV

For the consumer it is 100% favorable to have 99 as the stack amount. I'd vote against this. a stack of 12 just doesnt' make a lot of sense to me. If i'm doing an event, IE i'm in a position where buying food is worthwhile, I'll probably be dieing a lot. I'd rather have one big stack to experiment with. Also as a cook, i dont' want to have to manage 8 stacks of 12. I'd rather make a single stack of 99 and then throw it up and forget about it and come back later to collect my cash.

it would make more sense to make food more worthwhile. a lot of food is worthless. a larger variety of affects would be better than changing stack size. make food more viable for every situations rather than just big events. IE: bigger xp bonuses for cooked food vs. raw materials. (when i'm xping i carry cheap water for the xp bonus. since its' the same as the 3k jerked beef I might use otherwise)