DPS Testing

I thought it would be interesting to see how much the DPS value actually changes damage output.

I tested with weapons that have the same Delay (Damage/Delay ='s DPS)

The test consisted of having STR/INT below where it would cap on either weapon.
Perform Auto Attack with a Parser until DEV was ~9% swap fists - repeat.
For WS's using Pummel only ~9% DEV swap fists - repeat.

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attack 72 91 81.5 11.656% - 38.00 DPS Lomisan Knuckles
attack 57 72 64.5 11.628% - 28.66 DPS Cobalt Knuckles
attack 64 80 72.0 11.111% - 32.33 DPS Pieste Ceste

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The calculated difference is:
~0.85%: 1 Damage Stat (used for AA)
~2.5%: 1 DPS (used for WS)

***This does not include the addition of higher stat caps from higher DPS. This is only higher DPS with the exact same stats.

***Also tested this for Gladiator and Lancer weapons. Results aren't posted

Eh, that kind of testing is hard to find accurate tbh, not claiming your assertion is wrong but the damage extension varies by such a wide degree per weapon it's hard to get the accurate raw data that you're looking for without testing multiple varying DPS values. And judging from the weapons listing off mogbox it'll be difficult to find that variance without hitting the stat caps on some weapons.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Eh, that kind of testing is hard to find accurate tbh, not claiming your assertion is wrong but the damage extension varies by such a wide degree per weapon it's hard to get the accurate raw data that you're looking for without testing multiple varying DPS values. And judging from the weapons listing off mogbox it'll be difficult to find that variance without hitting the stat caps on some weapons.

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Thanks Sword Coheir, this does bring to light some more testing to do. There hasn't been anything yet to say that Damage/Delay to DPS values would not scale in a linear fashion. I guess I could pick another Monk weapon, most likely with higher DPS - Probably Lomisan Knuckles (same 3 second delay). I should be able estimate the damage from the 2% scale and if it's within range then it works.

The other difference will be in the delay. Going from a High Damage Weapon with a long delay to a Low Damage weapon with a short delay will have a different AA to damage %, but given the same timeframe should still follow the same linear damage difference.


So I finished with that testing. It only represents so far, the % gain for AA. Which showed so far on my testing to be the same for WS's

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attack 72 91 81.5 11.656% - 38.00 DPS Lomisan Knuckles
attack 57 72 64.5 11.628% - 28.66 DPS Cobalt Knuckles

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So I would have estimated that the Lomisan Knuckles would do around 76 Damage on average 18.7% more than Cobalt @ 9.34 higher DPS.

I'll re-do my testing on the Peiste Cesti to see if I can get it right at the 11.6% deviation as well. But so far it seems that 1DPS is ~2.5% increase in damage to AA and WS.

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attack 64 80 72.0 11.111% - 32.33 DPS Pieste Ceste - New Testing 11.1% Deviation is pretty close

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Difference between Lomisan Knuckles and Pieste Ceste 14%, DPS Difference 5.67. (2.5% * 5.67 = 14.1%)


Going by the difference in Damage VS. the difference between Damage Stat (DS)

1 DS ~ 0.85% for AA
1 DPS ~2.5% for WS

Then you could roughly compare weapons

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Cobalt Claws 117 3.2 36.56 Attack Power : +8

Sphairai 143 3.4 42.06 Attack Power : +60, Refresh : +5, MP : +70

Difference - 26 DS * 5.5 DPS * 52 AP

So AA 22% - WS 13.75% - AP 8.5% to both AA and WS
for a total of 30% greater AA Damge - 22.25% Greater WS Damage - Before capping stats

After Capping the stats - It seems kind of high, but... 50% Greater AA - 42% Greater WS Damage

***Disclaimer -- This is mainly theory based on stat testing. Use at your own risk

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^ Anyone with a Sphairai want to test this? -Cobalt Claws at or below stat caps VS Sphairai, using the same gear.


For fun I thought I'd try comparing some Bows (I know this isn't the Archer/Bard Section)

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Garuda's Spine 71DS - 3.1 Delay - 40.97 DPS
Flame Lieutenant's Bow 109DS - 4.1- Delay - 40.24 DPS - 30 Attack
DS Difference of 38 or 32% + Attack 30 (~5%) Total 37%

90 Second Comparison
Garuda 29 attacks + 10 For Barrage - 39Total
Flame LT 22 + 10 for Barrage - 32 Total

Flame LT 82% @ 37% more damage so 112% (12% More than Garuda)

So the Flame LT Bow should do ~12% more AA + Barrage Damage than Garuda at the same Stats (DEX/PIE) within a 90 second period
Not that it will make a huge difference because WS>AA damage. - so maybe 5% Overall
Since Garuda should do ~4% more damage overall with WS's it's pretty even

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Is Sphairai worth it over Garuda's Talons?

Garuda's Talons 115 2.8 41.07 Accuracy : +25, Crit Attack Power : +40, Wind Resistance : +15, Adds Wind Damage

Sphairai 143 3.4 42.06 Increases Shoulder Tackle damage , Evasion : +30, Attack Power : +60, Refresh : +5, MP : +70

Sphairai VS Garuda's Talons

2.5% AA and WS Damage over Garuda + 60 Attack Power ~6% more damage

Total ~8.5% Increased Damage over Garuda's Talons at the same stats
~ 8.75% Increase in AA and 10.5% Increase in WS's at Sphairai Stat Caps

Monk doesn't need a ton of accuracy, but the other factor will be if the loss of 25 Acc can be made up, without losing any other stats, as it will reduce the usefulness of Sphairai over Garuda's Talons.

My gear is as follows for MNK and it performed quite well on Rivenroad (Hard) and we won.

Sphairai
Raptorskin Pot Helm +1 (INT+42)
Flame Sergeant's Tabard
Flame Sergeant's Sash
Felt Trousers (STR+24/VIT+26)
Felt Bracers (STR+50)
Ul'dahn Officers Boots
Explorer's Earring/White Ravens
Explorer's Choker
Flame Sergeant's Bracelets
Zircon Ring +1
Rubellite Ring +1

Food: Tuna Miq'abob
Sanction active.

STR 353
INT 324

The boots provide 5 acc and have a very nice sanction bonus (and identical to what talons offer). I have explorer's mocassins when sanction is down. If I had corselet/caligae I'd use both in a heartbeat though. So far I have not had any major accuracy issues as I find switching food to tuna (from raptor), puts me down 1 acc but up 19 attack. The extra accuracy is there as needed on boots and helm. I purposely melded that helm for the acc+6 it offered. There are ways to work around stuff like relics w/o accuracy but it does take effort. Also it is totally worth it.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

My gear is as follows for MNK and it performed quite well on Rivenroad (Hard) and we won.

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That's awesome.
Do you happend to have Garuda's Talons? If you do, would you mind doing an AA parser against a lvl 50+ Mob?
It would have to be without your Raptorskin Pot Helm because the INT will throw off the results.
Just to see if my theorized calculations are close to the difference in weapons.

Thanks in advanced - I just need to add that the difference in AA damage should be ~30%. But total damage (i.e. over 60 seconds) should only be 8.5% because of the difference in delay. It'd be cool to see if it does actually match up.

Um, yeah I could try that, but won't have time until the weekend.

http://xivdb.com/?GearSet/Dps-Monk/214

Current Monk Setup.

That gets me close to the caps and over 800 atk w/food and fof

Galka must have a huge racial difference from cat. If I wear the same thing (same materia, too) I am 20 STR and 20 INT short of Sphairai cap. Food included. I can still hit 800ATK though.

A shame, because I would really like to use eyepatch again. :(

No, that guy just doesn't have a clue what stat caps are or what the word "close" means.

Perhaps we should be transparent about what we believe the caps are cuz it sounds like we're on different pages.

I don't believe the caps to be 336STR/300INT or close to those. I get enough variation where I'm at to know there's some ceiling above me.

I believe sphairai stat caps are around 365 str/315-320 int, ever since i got my stats around that i have been doing a lot more dmg than any other mnk lol

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Originally Posted by Churchill

I don't believe the caps to be 336STR/300INT or close to those. I get enough variation where I'm at to know there's some ceiling above me.

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You might want to do some math, my str is over 340

I have various setups i use where im at caps, close to 900 atk or much higher acc.

Insightful input as always churchill

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Galka must have a huge racial difference from cat. If I wear the same thing (same materia, too) I am 20 STR and 20 INT short of Sphairai cap. Food included. I can still hit 800ATK though.

A shame, because I would really like to use eyepatch again. :(

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My extensive dps testing has this setup working out best for me.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

Perhaps we should be transparent about what we believe the caps are cuz it sounds like we're on different pages.

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Reaching the caps does not always translate for the best dps for the situation.

These forums have just degenerated to who can nitpick the most.

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

Reaching the caps does not always translate for the best dps for the situation.

These forums have just degenerated to who can nitpick the most.

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I am not saying it does. I was merely requesting that we state what we believe the Sphairai caps to be since everyone seemed to have their own opinion on it.

Still get large variance at 365/311. (Cap is higher)

Edit: Ah, didn't read the bullshit responses. If you want to claim extensive DPS testing, then use a more logical setup. You can get 20 more INT and 20CritAP just using your sanction GC gear and dropping DarklightforthesakeofDarklight. You can then drop your ring setup and go for 2xSTR rings and rotate Corselet and Gryphonskin w/100+critAP as necessary (basically, accuracy needed or not)

Also, STR on Monk is 243 base(@23STR/22INT allocation), you posted a setup with +93 so an easy assumption is 336.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Churchill

Still get large variance at 365/311. (Cap is higher)

Edit: Ah, didn't read the bullshit responses. If you want to claim extensive DPS testing, then use a more logical setup. You can get 20 more INT and 20CritAP just using your sanction GC gear and dropping DarklightforthesakeofDarklight. You can then drop your ring setup and go for 2xSTR rings and rotate Corselet and Gryphonskin w/100+critAP as necessary (basically, accuracy needed or not)

Also, STR on Monk is 243 base(@23STR/22INT allocation), you posted a setup with +93 so an easy assumption is 336.

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If you add the str up from the gear posted you will see it is at 340. (that program is just out of beta)

Can i spend more money/materia for different setups? sure... I'll invest in a game that has less then a month left when I had the majority of the content done in August.

I have multiple gear setups where i can hit the "cap" and this is my current favorite. Sorry it falls short in your eyes...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Churchill

Still get large variance at 365/311. (Cap is higher)

Edit: Ah, didn't read the bullshit responses.

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So You have had the monk relic for 5 days and have done more testing then the extra 80 days I've had mine ? lolk

The great thing about Final Fantasy 14 is that due to the nature of how its combat system is setup, it doesn't take a very long time to gather the relevant information to determine whether or not a specific setup is stat capped or performs better. This information can be quickly taken and inputted into a variety of known scenarios within the game (due to a low amount of variance between encounter to encounter) and determined which would be better.

The great thing about Critical Hit Attack Power and 2.0 is that in the past, SE has addressed this stats uselessness in end game scenarios (due to dLvl) and made it more powerful. This is a precedent they have set and attempted to counter/correct. Come 2.0, I see no reason for Critical Hit Attack Power to lose its usefulness. At any rate, from what we have seen, stat caps for all weapons appear to be moving to a lower number than they are currently. This change would further decrease any bonus the Corselet provides outside of accuracy.

Personal attacks and suspension of disbelief won't really provide a strong argument for you.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

Personal attacks and suspension of disbelief won't really provide a strong argument for you.

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So pointing out you had the monk relic for 5 days is a personal attack now?

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Originally Posted by Churchill

The great thing about Critical Hit Attack Power and 2.0 is that in the past, SE has addressed this stats uselessness in end game scenarios (due to dLvl) and made it more powerful. This is a precedent they have set and attempted to counter/correct. Come 2.0, I see no reason for Critical Hit Attack Power to lose its usefulness.

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Your argument is that crit hit atk power melded on body is > croselet when I never brought, addressed that, or even shared my opinion on that matter.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

This change would further decrease any bonus the Corselet provides outside of accuracy.

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Again... Equip setups vary on different end game bosses for different results. Corselet works pretty well when fighting hard mode VD when you need acc. (Of course you havn't done that content, but i guess this is another personal attack)

You have claimed that 336(Or 340STR, whichever you fancy) is close or at stat cap for Sphairai; you have claimed your current setup to be a monster for DPS which has came out ahead of months of testing.

Neither of these statements is accurate or close to factual, what are your questions.

You have claimed that Personal attacks have been made against you. I said i was close to the stat caps, if you want to hold an argument over what one perceives "close" as then be my guest, argue away. I never said it was a monster for DPS, but again put words in my mouth (or whatever you fancy)

Any of your statements are not accurate or close to factual, what are your questions.

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

You have claimed that Personal attacks have been made against you. I said i was close to the stat caps, if you want to hold an argument over what one perceives "close" as then be my guest, argue away. I never said it was a monster for DPS, but again put words in my mouth (or whatever you fancy)

Any of your statements are accurate or close to factual, what are your questions.

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thank you.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

thank you

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Hey, you gotta take what you can get.

Eh, come on guys. You're both probably good players and at the very least have grasp on the general math of things. Let's not argue stuff like this.

My question is what are the stat caps for Sphairai then? I just push str/int up as high as I can go, but that's difficult to do much more without DL for me. I dunno if I'm "close" to caps, I just know I am doing the best I can with what I do have.

Also I didn't get to do that AA testing this weekend. Sorry!

The only stat cap I can give you with any certainty is INT, which is 317 or 318.

STR testing is painful due to the STR:ATK conversion mucking up the results. Lots of data plotting, incremental changes and boredom, which is more than I'm willing to invest on a system that has a month to live.

If you have two or more sets of gear on hand, you could parse them against each other and use whichever prevails until 2.0. It's not useful for the community, but it'll give you peace of mind.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

Eh, come on guys. You're both probably good players and at the very least have grasp on the general math of things. Let's not argue stuff like this.

My question is what are the stat caps for Sphairai then? I just push str/int up as high as I can go, but that's difficult to do much more without DL for me. I dunno if I'm "close" to caps, I just know I am doing the best I can with what I do have.

Also I didn't get to do that AA testing this weekend. Sorry!

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It is like 370+/320+

But again, there are times where atk power wins out and times when acc wins out. There are also times where just having a better rotation then the next guy will trump gear.

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

It is like 370+/320+

But again, there are times where atk power wins out and times when acc wins out. There are also times where just having a better rotation then the next guy will trump gear.

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I dunno if there is ever a time Atk. flat out wins over the bonus stats (save when you are at or over the cap), but it is possible to equalize the benefits if you get enough of it, but unlike the Bonus stats attack doesn't have a cap. I think the ratio is roughly 2.3 Atk is needed for every 1 STR (1.4 STR for every 1 Atk over cap) and 2 Atk for every 1 INT, so a +80 Atk pair of gloves would equate to roughly +35 STR in comparison.

Looking over your set alot more closely this morning, I see you're kind of in the same predicament I am making it hard to change anything that doesn't completely mess with your set bonus or require you to change out half your gear in the process just to get the maximum benefits from it. If I had to make an accurate judgement, I think your current benefits would outweigh what you would lose if you strived (struggled) to reach the stat cap on the Saraphi, based on available gear and materia limitations.

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

It is like 370+/320+

But again, there are times where atk power wins out and times when acc wins out. There are also times where just having a better rotation then the next guy will trump gear.

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Interesting you mention ATK winning out. I suspect ATK was buffed sometime between 1.21 and now. When I was playing around with my gears for the final days of 1.0, I encountered some results that could only fit the current stat:damage model if ATK were more potent (or STR/INT were less so, but that seems unlikely). Of course, it could just as easily be a calculation or testing error on my part.

Bold guess is 1ATK:0.5DMG instead of 0.35DMG--still less than point-for-point INT and STR bonuses. I decided not to follow up on it because 1) it's too late to matter and 2) I already sold my +81ATK gloves. ;_;

Please don't "/l OMG YOU GUYS! THE FORUMS SAID...!" I don't want to regret bringing this up.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

I dunno if there is ever a time Atk. flat out wins over the bonus stats (save when you are at or over the cap), but it is possible to equalize the benefits if you get enough of it, but unlike the Bonus stats attack doesn't have a cap. I think the ratio is roughly 2.3 Atk is needed for every 1 STR (1.4 STR for every 1 Atk over cap) and 2 Atk for every 1 INT, so a +80 Atk pair of gloves would equate to roughly +35 STR in comparison.

Looking over your set alot more closely this morning, I see you're kind of in the same predicament I am making it hard to change anything that doesn't completely mess with your set bonus or require you to change out half your gear in the process just to get the maximum benefits from it. If I had to make an accurate judgement, I think your current benefits would outweigh what you would lose if you strived (struggled) to reach the stat cap on the Saraphi, based on available gear and materia limitations.

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Most of the time yes you just want to hit the caps, but some times in doing so you will sacrifice acc/atk at a far greater rate then you really want too. Now we all agree and acknowledge that until you are at the cap the return for your main stat is greater on a 1 to 1 ratio str:atk but its a lot closer on your 2ndary and AA caps are lower then WS caps.

So on a mob like Mistress where Auto Attack is doing a good portion of your stable damage, atk builds with (close to cap) results will do pretty well.

I have 90 atk gloves and 50 str gloves but wear the 50 str gloves on Mnk and Drg because I still get better results with the Str. On brd however i get much better results with atk gloves then any dex gloves would give me. (Yes i know brd DPS is much more significant from AA, barrage, Quick Nook)

I can add a str ring in and a int bracelet and swap the hat to something with 40+ int melded on it but with the game ending in a month and I just don't play that often enough I really don't care to maximize my potential until 2.0 and im sure all the formulas will change.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Interesting you mention ATK winning out. I suspect ATK was buffed sometime between 1.21 and now. When I was playing around with my gears for the final days of 1.0, I encountered some results that could only fit the current stat:damage model if ATK were more potent (or STR/INT were less so, but that seems unlikely). Of course, it could just as easily be a calculation or testing error on my part.

Bold guess is 1ATK:0.5DMG instead of 0.35DMG--still less than point-for-point INT and STR bonuses. I decided not to follow up on it because 1) it's too late to matter and 2) I already sold my +81ATK gloves. ;_;

Please don't "/l OMG YOU GUYS! THE FORUMS SAID...!" I don't want to regret bringing this up.

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I was only really referring to the MM fight where I have seen high atk builds parse well. You really only ever get off 2 Howling fist and stat caps with lower atk/acc are more burst builds and having high atk/acc can lead to better constant dps. To my knowledge nothing has changed in regards to the formulas Kako and Seiken found. (I'm sure i butchered the spelling of their names)

Those gloves are ideal for BRD though :)

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Also, STR on Monk is 243 base(@23STR/22INT allocation), you posted a setup with +93 so an easy assumption is 336.

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Ran into an issue with this on another post. I thought that SE equalized the stats between races, but it seems that isn't the case.
For instance on Monk with all my points into STR/INT
254 STR
252 INT
Highland Hyur

Lalafel has 11 less STR and 2 more INT at base. So there is quite a variance between races still.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

Also I didn't get to do that AA testing this weekend. Sorry!

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No worries. It is pretty irrelevant at this point with 2.0 coming so close anyways.

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Interesting you mention ATK winning out. I suspect ATK was buffed sometime between 1.21 and now.

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Not sure if it got buffed. But from some of the testing I've done here's some things that seemed interesting.

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Base Stats seemed to follow a static increase towards damage. 1 point Primary: 0.8 more damage

Where as Attack seemed to follow a % increase similar to the Damage Stat and DPS

So if 30 Attack: = 3% extra damage, then
3% @ 112 Damage Stat and 38 DPS < 3% @ 143 Damage Stat and 42 DPS

So you could see how "Attack Power" at higher DPS and Damage Stat values could become greater than Base Stats

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So to answer Almalexia's question, not sure if it got buffed, but with these new "more powerful" weapons, I think the difference just became a bit more noticeable.

***But in saying that, it would take 100's of hours of testing to prove a formula for that.

Nice to see some theory crafting even in this last stage of the game, but I do feel very strongly that they will lower the stat caps which increases the utility of ATK and ACC and Crit builds. I'd love to see a crit rate boosting support ability/song etc which would further push crit builds.

I think a dev post a month or 2 back was about the impact of raw stats like str/vit/dex/int being reduced or scaled back.

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Originally Posted by Tango

Nice to see some theory crafting even in this last stage of the game, but I do feel very strongly that they will lower the stat caps which increases the utility of ATK and ACC and Crit builds. I'd love to see a crit rate boosting support ability/song etc which would further push crit builds.

I think a dev post a month or 2 back was about the impact of raw stats like str/vit/dex/int being reduced or scaled back.

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Yeah, they are reducing the effectiveness of the base stats...however they plan to do that. (probably lower the stat caps)

Always interesting to see how the current stats work...maybe it wont change too much in 2.0

Here's hoping it's not all about stacking HP in 2.0

LOL

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Here's hoping it's not all about stacking HP in 2.0

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I just finished my HP set for PLD 2 nights ago: I sit at 4500hp solo with food, nearly 5k in party buff.

Black Cat

^
l
l

I'm looking forward to seeing where they take our beloved monk in ARR, sadly I wont be starting ARR with my relics as I had hoped, but that's how she goes.