Do you think regional servers will help?

I was sad to see the news that regional datacenters would be used because of all of the complaints from the player base. Before i get to my opinion of this, i would like to present some facts.

My "lag" (latency) from my computer to Durandal server is 176-198ms. That is about .2 seconds. I live a third of the way around the world from Japan (flight from my city to tokyo is 7264 miles, the world has a circumference of 24901 miles.) You can not get much farther away without being in the middle of the atlantic ocean, so let's just say that i am close to as far from the servers as you can get without living in Greenland.

The complaints that i have heard and the "lag problems" (as some call them) that i have experienced are well beyond this latency, usually coming to a couple of seconds or more (ifrit eruptions.)

If the datacenter was in your city, you would AT BEST shave off about 1/5 of one second of latency. do you really think that this would help?

I would suggest that instead of we the player base complaining about where the servers are located (which is often just a crutch for inexperienced players), maybe we should look into our own ISP or ask SE about implementing countermeasures for the full latency to the user (including graphical lag, responsiveness to the user [looks to be under control for 2.0] and such).

I think that regional servers are a sad idea and will break up linkshells and unintentionally push us into national groups rather than having a global community. It will also make it so that no one on your server will have a "JP Button" and that will be sad.



What do you think? is less than half a second no matter where you are worth breaking up the global community?

Originally way back when 1.0 came out the lag was crazy awful. I read that part of this was because the server was encrypting and verifying every request. So every item sold, every button press was an encrypted server request. This was to cut down on cheaters/botters/RMT supposedly. I think they streamlined it eventually but never changed it.

FFXIV is a very server-centric game. Not much is offloaded to the client. So if they are not willing to budge on that point then I guess one of the ways to reduce lag is to bring the servers closer - but its not the only way.

But my point was that if they bring the servers closer, it would barely be noticeable. I do not personally think that the possibility of a tenth of one second reduction in latency makes any difference nor is worth the cost in community or dollars or complexity of having multiple datacenters to coordinate.

Some people will benefit more than others.
If you already have a good connection, then regional servers is as you said, close to pointless.

200ms to 50 ms is very noticeable if you are in PvP, but not so much in PvE.

As for why a change is ~150-200ms is very noticeable, look at this:
http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/...time/stats.php

Average human reaction time is 215ms so a number in that order of magnitude will register.

the main issue of the lags in FFXIV is not because the servers are located in Japan.. its about the game client and server structure. Quesse has described it quiet good.

Play action paced MMorpgs like Phantasy Star Online 2 (servers located in japan as well) and you'll see that you wont experience a huge lag like in FFXIV.


the gamescom 2012 demo was played on Japan server as well, and as you have seen it was quiet fluent. no comparison to now. Best example that these huge lags were caused by the "shity" client and server structure is the recent atomos event.
when many people want to teleport at one place at the same time, it takes up to some minutes some times. that has nothing to do with the latancy and the distance between user and server location.


the latency in MMorpgs is not that important like when you want to play an egoshooter. but i think and im sure its a complete misbelief when you say the main issue is about server location. no its not.



Ask JP players how they experience the delays. they also have these delays when selling items or what ever, although the server is located in japan. Japanese players also have massive delays.

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I was sad to see the news that regional datacenters would be used because of all of the complaints from the player base. Before i get to my opinion of this, i would like to present some facts.

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There are some complaints but there are also a lot of happy people. Not that it's scientific, but a majority of players seem to be happy to trade a significant community of people that don't seem to want to play with them for an improvment of network performance.

As much as I like playing with foreign-language speaking players, it's a lot easier to get things accomplished when more people around you are willing to play with you and speak the same language. Then, on top of that, your pings are lower and game experience is smoother. It's easy to see why the yeas dominate the nays. In some ways, it's kind of sad, but since it does make it easier to enjoy the game, it's not all bad.

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Ask JP players how they experience the delays. they also have these delays when selling items or what ever, although the server is located in japan. Japanese players also have massive delays.

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Not as massive as ours. In battles like Ifrit, if you're not standing on a crack, you don't get hit by it, unlike with most NA players getting hit by cracks even when they've run away and clearly aren't standing on it on their own screen.

I'll say the same thing.

THe biggest problem is the client/server software.

Actually, I even know some games are programmed to anticipate lag.

In Team Fortress 2, when you play something like Sniper. If the head of your ennemy is right under your crosshair when you click to shoot : BOOM HEADSHOT. Even if the ping is 150 ms. (It don't seem very high, but Team Fortress 2 is very fast paced)

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Originally Posted by Randelmire

I'll say the same thing.

THe biggest problem is the client/server software.

Actually, I even know some games are programmed to anticipate lag.

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Games can't anticipate lag. There are client-side compensation tools in some games but these are highly imperfect. Especially in shooters that utilize this, it results in tons of double-kills where both players kill the other person because the ping compensation allows both players to register hits on the other before either one's death is actually recorded. I've yet to meet a ping compensator I liked. It's better to just not have the lag in the first place instead of trying to compensate for it.

You're right that the server response is a major issue, but when you put together improved server response with better ping, the improvement is massive.

Uh.

Yeah, going from 250-300 ms ping to sub 80 is noticeable. People literally complain about the lag all the time.

And you can still pick whatever server you want, regardless of the region you're in.

Christ these topics are like f**kin' cockroaches.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Games can't anticipate lag. There are client-side compensation tools in some games but these are highly imperfect. Especially in shooters that utilize this, it results in tons of double-kills where both players kill the other person because the ping compensation allows both players to register hits on the other before either one's death is actually recorded. I've yet to meet a ping compensator I liked. It's better to just not have the lag in the first place instead of trying to compensate for it.

You're right that the server response is a major issue, but when you put together improved server response with better ping, the improvement is massive.

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I wasn't using the right words, but that's pretty much what I was trying to describe...

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Uh.

Yeah, going from 250-300 ms ping to sub 80 is noticeable. People literally complain about the lag all the time.

And you can still pick whatever server you want, regardless of the region you're in.

Christ these topics are like f**kin' cockroaches.

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If your ping is near 300, the problem is not server location

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Originally Posted by Huginn

If your ping is near 300, the problem is not server location

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Not in a MMO anyway.

I have been hit by cracks that i have been off of for more than a full second, moving the servers isnt going to fix issues such as this.

and as far as thinking that it will not split up english speakers... North America is not very close to Europe, and neither are very close to Australia.

The total increase in latency from california to japan is 100ms. if you think 100ms in this kind of game is life or death, maybe you should just make sure you arent playing on a TV with upconvert on.

moving server will maby fix 30-50% of the current lag issues. The rest of them have nothing to do with physical locations.

The inventory issues, ifrit, and menu problems have more to do with game design and server structure then distance lag.

So will it improve it, yea slightly but if they do not fix the servers and stuff then the answer no.

I think they will help marginally, but the real changes we'll see will be from the complete rebuild of the game.

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Originally Posted by Randelmire

I wasn't using the right words, but that's pretty much what I was trying to describe...

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Well you should understand then why that's a bad idea for MMOs. In a peer-to-peer console game, the demand for precision might not be high, but in an MMO the potential impact of an error from ping compensation is much greater.

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I have been hit by cracks that i have been off of for more than a full second, moving the servers isnt going to fix issues such as this.

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The issue is both a combination of server processing, too much need of the server to approve client actions, and ping. All of these things can be reduced. And reducing all of them will help. You can argue that ping is the smaller of these factors, but there's no reason that any factor that can be reduced shouldn't be.

Beyond that, if you aren't bothered by the higher ping, you're more than welcome to play on a server outside your region- Especially for europe servers, where you probably wont' have a problem communicating with most people.

this topic really need another thread?, seriously.

I think it will help and SE's technicians obviously think it will too..

you realise the JP's are probably throwing a party and you know how biased they are to pleasing the jp community. on top of that only about 1/3 at best of the english speaking community doesnt want regional servers.

so you people should just accept it and stop whining, or just quit playing.

It actually doesn't matter what our polls and wants are. The decision has been made and the data centers have been acquired. They are not giving us a choice.

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Originally Posted by Rogue

so you people should just accept it and stop whining, or just quit playing.

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It's not a matter of accepting it or not. What we're asking is will it make a real change?

IMO, yes it will help. But still, I would have liked to see how the new clients works with servers from Japan before saying if it is required or not.

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Originally Posted by Randelmire

It's not a matter of accepting it or not. What we're asking is will it make a real change?

IMO, yes it will help. But still, I would have liked to see how the new clients works with servers from Japan before saying if it is required or not.

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SE determined it was required, isn't that enough? Anyway nothing prevents you at release timing to create a character on JP/NA/EU Worlds and compare.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

It actually doesn't matter what our polls and wants are. The decision has been made and the data centers have been acquired. They are not giving us a choice.

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Very true. SE already invested in the data centers. To abort this now would be throwing a substantial sum of money away.

Sorry, SE decided, we should all shut up. =_=

If YOU don't want to talk about it because SE decided, why don't you just go read another thread?

People have the right to talk about it, even if the servers are already ordered/paid or not.

Edit : Keep in mind they also made the choice to release Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 ... so saying that it's already decided by SE doesn't mean it's actually the best choice.

Remember that Yoshi-P was impressed that the game was fluid when he was at Gamerscom and the servers were in Japan.

Because of that, I'm thinking they decided to add regional servers just to be 200% sure there won't be lag issues like before, and not because it was actually required. So I'm not sure it will really be worth seperating everyone.

I would, but this is almost everything you guys are talking about.

Is it really that hard to keep your whining to one thread? Does your opinion that's not all too different from every other whiner really warrant its own thread?

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Is it really that hard to keep your whining to one thread?

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Is it really hard to not post in threads if you don't actually have a opinion to share on the topic? It must be.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Is it really hard to not post in threads if you don't actually have a opinion to share on the topic? It must be.

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Is it really hard to post your identical opinions in other existing threads with identical opinions?

Whether or not I post in these topics doesn't matter, because you guys keep making new threads all saying the same thing. You are polluting the boards.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

You are polluting the boards.

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Yes like we have a whole lot of other topics that aren't duplicated ad-nausuem. It's part of forums in general dealing with multiple topics, at least in general with english boards. Japanese boards seem to keep alot of conversation to a thread but we have always and will always be like this.

The pointless whining about it doesn't help and only encourages someone to make another thread on the topic to spite the haters. You perpetuate your own object of hate, much like Rokien you people made him the monster he is and I find it utterly hillarious when you continually feed him.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Is it really hard to post your identical opinions in other existing threads with identical opinions?

Whether or not I post in these topics doesn't matter, because you guys keep making new threads all saying the same thing. You are polluting the boards.

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Polluting the boards and trying to save the one major aspect that made XI and XIV better then other mmos are 2 totally different things..

This topic should be spammed until SE caves in and at least agrees to give the community a few global servers and not use the just use failfinder excuse.

Whining and trying to save a major positive of the game are 2 totally different things.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Ask JP players how they experience the delays. they also have these delays when selling items or what ever, although the server is located in japan. Japanese players also have massive delays.

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Not as massive as ours. In battles like Ifrit, if you're not standing on a crack, you don't get hit by it, unlike with most NA players getting hit by cracks even when they've run away and clearly aren't standing on it on their own screen.

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Playing in Tokyo with a high speed fiber optic connection, you still get hit by eruptions even if you are well clear of it on your own screen. So I don't think distance from the servers and network lag are the only cause of that problem in this current version.

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Originally Posted by Mikita

Playing in Tokyo with a high speed fiber optic connection, you still get hit by eruptions even if you are well clear of it on your own screen. So I don't think distance from the servers and network lag are the only cause of that problem in this current version.

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Yoshida even commented about this in the live letter.

"Players in other regions have complained about the lag with things like Ifrit....oh Japanese players have as well" Something along those lines. But people will continue to allow their own misguided judgment tell them that it will be worlds different because of regional servers and not because of less load being put on the server and more on the client.

I do agree that local servers will break everyone up, but this is SE fault for not getting with the times an developing shar based servers. SE could essentially have one "server" broke up into to dozens of shards located locally. Eve does this, all of Cryptic's games do this, and many other MMOS do this to some extent.

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Originally Posted by Presbytier

I do agree that local servers will break everyone up, but this is SE fault for not getting with the times an developing shar based servers. SE could essentially have one "server" broke up into to dozens of shards located locally. Eve does this, all of Cryptic's games do this, and many other MMOS do this to some extent.

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Even XI does this somewhat.

I think it's a problem related about the game client on XIV, I played for 4 years or more FFXI and never got a issue with lag and i'm from Argentina, pretty much the opposite of Japan.

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Originally Posted by vax

I think it's a problem related about the game client on XIV, I played for 4 years or more FFXI and never got a issue with lag and i'm from Argentina, pretty much the opposite of Japan.

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Even SE themselves said it was related to the client and server settings/hardware but people still cry to segregate everyone. (Even JP players are indifferent about it.)

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

There are some complaints but there are also a lot of happy people. Not that it's scientific, but a majority of players seem to be happy to trade a significant community of people that don't seem to want to play with them for an improvment of network performance.

As much as I like playing with foreign-language speaking players, it's a lot easier to get things accomplished when more people around you are willing to play with you and speak the same language. Then, on top of that, your pings are lower and game experience is smoother. It's easy to see why the yeas dominate the nays. In some ways, it's kind of sad, but since it does make it easier to enjoy the game, it's not all bad.

Not as massive as ours. In battles like Ifrit, if you're not standing on a crack, you don't get hit by it, unlike with most NA players getting hit by cracks even when they've run away and clearly aren't standing on it on their own screen.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVEiHcHTFZU

Sup.

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Originally Posted by Randelmire

It's not a matter of accepting it or not. What we're asking is will it make a real change?

IMO, yes it will help. But still, I would have liked to see how the new clients works with servers from Japan before saying if it is required or not.

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Yes, this would have more sense, especially as 2.0 is said to improve many of the performance issues anyway. Perhaps we can all convince SE to postpone the actual implementation. Unlikely I know, but maybe they might listen.

dont think it will matter there always a excuse to fake DC and say it was lag.

Maybe it will help me make a name for myself? Only NA person playing on a JP server? No other NA person is allowed to take this idea if i find another NA person JP side I will destroy you!!!!