Auction House vs Wards

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Q: Will you improve the stress related to retainer placement in the markets and the constant Ul’dah crashes?

A: We completely rebuilt the servers from the ground up, so we’d like to have everyone stress test during the Alpha test to see how many people we can put into a single server and determine how we should split up the server. In regards to the market, we are also revamping this completely. Since there were difficulties making all of the retainers visible, we are planning for large scale improvements so you can search more specifically and also make it so you can display only the things you are interested in within a ward.

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Letter from producer III Q&A (above)...

Basically, what's the point??? Anyone serious about making gil via public sales: Ul'dah wards is the ONLY place you want to put your retainer. IMO waste of developmental time, scrap the wards & retainers.

Centralize the market system into 1 market with global server access from major cities.

Pros:
Promotes competitive pricing.
Prevent headaches of getting retainer into wards.
Makes items more likely to sell for more current pricing.
Easier on developers.

Cons:
QQ by people who says "just like all other MMO, not original!"


Why current system fails:
3 major cities... but you have access to all markethouse from each.. if you had only access to markethouse of the current city would make more players sell in that city but since there is access to uldah market from LL/Grid why not conveniently access and sell/buy there where have more items posted.

Scrap this crap - AH is just for gil/items. Spend more time on real game content.

Unfortunately I'm inclined to agree. There will be people who come back to this game to give it a second shot, after having had a horrible taste from launch, see that retainers and wards are still in the game and immediately quit.

Honestly if they keep the MW in 2.0 and not give us an alternative, simple and flexible system, I'm probably just going to say f**k it. I've avoided the MW in 1.0 like a plague because they're awful to use. And also they're a plague.

I can use MW easy enough.
Finding +1s thats my only problem

Its one of tanakas design ideas they're still unfortunately clinging to :(

I have a better idea!! Instead of working on MW version 2.0, how about a Salon where players can redo their hairstyles/hair color, etc! I'm pretty sure that'd give the game way more appeal than ward system.. Drop in AH and salon & /gg

Also fix so we can buy items from the AH and not get kicked out after purchase.. like wtf whose idea was that? You dont goto the supermarket and they tell you to reenter to buy more than 1 item.. (>_> wtf

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Cons:QQ by people who says "just like all other MMO, not original!"

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Also there is nothing "original" about the market wards. The Devs just borrowed that idea from EQ1 and EQ2. It's been a very long time, but I want to remember EQ1 had a market ward where you stand your character in to sell your stuff. You had to purchase a special bazaar bag and load it up with what you want to sell. Other players can search for items and they are spun in your direction if they want to find you. EQ2 had that AH & market board/crate system. Players can search for an item and they can avoid additional fees if they went and visit the seller's apartment/house. Also sellers can reduce broker fees if they use certain player crafted selling crates.

Well if they continue using the current market ward system, maybe they can institute a broker fee to encourage an even population of retainers across all the cities. If one city has more then 40% of all active retainers in the game, then force an insanely high broker fee to encourage players to place their retainers in the less populated cities. Maybe offer no transaction fees at all for the city with the least amount of active retainers.

Thank you SE for keeping the markets wards. Glad that SE stood it's ground about market wards and not switching to an AH. This is not FFXI. If you want an AH take your arse back to XI.

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Originally Posted by rubina

Also there is nothing "original" about the market wards. The Devs just borrowed that idea from EQ1 and EQ2. It's been a very long time, but I want to remember EQ1 had a market ward where you stand your character in to sell your stuff. You had to purchase a special bazaar bag and load it up with what you want to sell. Other players can search for items and they are spun in your direction if they want to find you. EQ2 had that AH & market board/crate system. Players can search for an item and they can avoid additional fees if they went and visit the seller's apartment/house. Also sellers can reduce broker fees if they use certain player crafted selling crates.

Well if they continue using the current market ward system, maybe they can institute a broker fee to encourage an even population of retainers across all the cities. If one city has more then 40% of all active retainers in the game, then force an insanely high broker fee to encourage players to place their retainers in the less populated cities. Maybe offer no transaction fees at all for the city with the least amount of active retainers.

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Srsly tho why put so much work into a system that isn't the main focus of the game? Your idea is a good one btw, I just see it as a waste of time that could go into better & bigger parts of the game.

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Originally Posted by Titans

Thank you SE for keeping the markets wards. Glad that SE stood it's ground about market wards and not switching to an AH. This is not FFXI. If you want an AH take your arse back to XI.

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You sir, suck.. Developers spending more time on wards or more time on content... Hmmm... which is better? TOUGH CHOICE! (obvious sarcasm)

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Originally Posted by Mujen

Srsly tho why put so much work into a system that isn't the main focus of the game? Your idea is a good one btw, I just see it as a waste of time that could go into better & bigger parts of the game.



You sir, suck.. Developers spending more time on wards or more time on content... Hmmm... which is better? TOUGH CHOICE! (obvious sarcasm)

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What? No sir you suck. No one complains about the wards but you FFXI players. This game been around for 2 years with the wards in it, why change it. "I can't get my retainer in Ul'dah". So put them in another city why don't you?

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Originally Posted by Titans

What? No sir you suck. No one complains about the wards but you FFXI players. This game been around for 2 years with the wards in it, why change it. "I can't get my retainer in Ul'dah". So put them in another city why don't you?

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My good sir, I put an item in LL last night and did not sell, meanwhile.... back in ul'dah AH 5 such items sold, for even more than I put it for..
Yeah 2yrs and the game system sucks.. which is why they've been constantly working on it. You can't even say 2yrs.. cuz in the beginning it was crappy I heard, also the old players could lvl DoH/DoL via exp parties... leves gave lot more gil.. game was broken, reviews were resounding terrible, game had to go into F2P (free to play) mode.. what does that say? Speaks Volumes.. "If it aint broken don't fix it" does not apply my good sir! Cuz it's VERY broken lol

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Originally Posted by Titans

What? No sir you suck. No one complains about the wards but you FFXI players. This game been around for 2 years with the wards in it, why change it. "I can't get my retainer in Ul'dah". So put them in another city why don't you?

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Market Wards is the worst system I've seen, its just an unnecessary and time consuming system to get things sold. There is a reason why FF14 1.0~ didn't do well, and this was one of those things. Every other MMO pretty much has one centralized market where people can buy and sell their goods easily to widespread of costumers in different regions in-game. That's how it should be. Not the whole waste of time of putting up a retainer, and finding a place to put a retainer (And if your retainer isn't placed up in Uldah, fat chance getting things sold)...


Hope they change their mind on Market Wards and put up an Auction House.

Last I checked, they're already planning to centralize it. They said they couldn't do it with 1.0's server system and that's why it hasn't happened yet.

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Originally Posted by Titans

What? No sir you suck. No one complains about the wards but you FFXI players. This game been around for 2 years with the wards in it, why change it. "I can't get my retainer in Ul'dah". So put them in another city why don't you?

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if the system works so well, why dont you move your retainers to another city and let someone else place theirs in uldah?

oh thats right.. you wouldnt do that cus no one uses the other wards.

broken poorly thought out system is broken and poorly thought out.

They already confirmed that all cities will be linked to one universal search bar in 2.0. Yoshida confirmed this a while ago...around the time we got the search feature in the current build. He mentioned not being able to unify all cities because the current server system could not handle it.

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Originally Posted by Kam

if the system works so well, why dont you move your retainers to another city and let someone else place theirs in uldah?

oh thats right.. you wouldnt do that cus no one uses the other wards.

broken poorly thought out system is broken and poorly thought out.

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Dude, you're going on and on about something they're going to be fixing... Just stop and let them fix it.

The market wards let you do some things that a traditional AH doesn't- you can request items, not just sell them (though currently there isn't a list of requests anywhere), you can get repairs, you can sell unrelated items to the people who take the time to move to your retainer to avoid the fee, your retainer can model the equipment you're selling. It's really a decent system that was just made with some defects caused by the original team. The current team can fix those problems- for instance, improving UI response so it doesn't take a year to put your items up- truly combining the item search so that it's really 1 market that's 3 times the size instead of 3 markets that are still a pain to check.

The market ward isn't inherently a bad system- it just has things in it that need fixing.

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Originally Posted by Kam

Its one of tanakas design ideas they're still unfortunately clinging to :(

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FFXIV is Tanaka's idea, btw.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

FFXIV is Tanaka's idea, btw.

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Failed idea, hence someone else is in charge now.

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Originally Posted by xXHalloweenTrixXx

Failed idea, hence someone else is in charge now.

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We're still in Eorzea (Tanaka's idea), we're still using the same races and lore (Tanaka's original team designed), we're still using the Armory system (Tanaka's idea.)

So if XIV is a failed idea, why aren't they renaming it? This whole hate for Tanaka is pretty silly.

If you could some how get all 3 mercantile stewards in one room I believe people would use other city-state market wards. You could add multiple mercantile rooms to avoid occupancy issues.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

If you could some how get all 3 mercantile stewards in one room I believe people would use other city-state market wards. You could add multiple mercantile rooms to avoid occupancy issues.

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They said they intended to do this but couldn't do it on the current version.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

If you could some how get all 3 mercantile stewards in one room I believe people would use other city-state market wards. You could add multiple mercantile rooms to avoid occupancy issues.

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How many ppl do you think go into the wards to browse every retainer vs going to merchantile house and doing a search? The easier/more convenient things are the more likely people are to do it... This atomos event is a clear indicator, you never see people crashing zones doing caravan do ya?

It's not about "rooms" for housing retainers... it's about the merchantile house.. it's already a half-AH system, might as well go all the way

I find it absolutely crazy that they are still sticking with this system instead of just putting a simple AH. All of you defending the wards are missing one point: right now the wards function exactly like an AH except it is super annoying and frustrating to put items up, so what is the point on keeping it?

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Originally Posted by Mujen

How many ppl do you think go into the wards to browse every retainer vs going to merchantile house and doing a search? The easier/more convenient things are the more likely people are to do it... This atomos event is a clear indicator, you never see people crashing zones doing caravan do ya?

It's not about "rooms" for housing retainers... it's about the merchantile house.. it's already a half-AH system, might as well go all the way

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Um, I don't see what that has to do with what I posted.



and thanks Elexia, I didn't know that. I think that will successfully relieve the issue of having 'prime real estate' (uldah).

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Originally Posted by WiiSam

I find it absolutely crazy that they are still sticking with this system instead of just putting a simple AH. All of you defending the wards are missing one point: right now the wards function exactly like an AH except it is super annoying and frustrating to put items up, so what is the point on keeping it?

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I don't find it crazy at all. As I said before, it's not in inherently bad system, and they've already added plenty of AH-like features, such as searching for items and buying them from a list. They just need to fix up a lot of technical flaws and oversights and it will be a solid system.

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Originally Posted by WiiSam

I find it absolutely crazy that they are still sticking with this system instead of just putting a simple AH. All of you defending the wards are missing one point: right now the wards function exactly like an AH except it is super annoying and frustrating to put items up, so what is the point on keeping it?

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You do realize an AH is the same as the MW right? You go to a NPC or location and pull up a list to buy from things people (retainers) are selling. Given the limitations of the current version, they simply only need to modify it to allow separate listings to display HQ and Materia infused gear.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

Letter from producer III Q&A (above)...

Basically, what's the point??? Anyone serious about making gil via public sales: Ul'dah wards is the ONLY place you want to put your retainer. IMO waste of developmental time, scrap the wards & retainers.

Centralize the market system into 1 market with global server access from major cities.

Pros:
Promotes competitive pricing.
Prevent headaches of getting retainer into wards.
Makes items more likely to sell for more current pricing.
Easier on developers.

Cons:
QQ by people who says "just like all other MMO, not original!"


Why current system fails:
3 major cities... but you have access to all markethouse from each.. if you had only access to markethouse of the current city would make more players sell in that city but since there is access to uldah market from LL/Grid why not conveniently access and sell/buy there where have more items posted.
Scrap this crap - AH is just for gil/items. Spend more time on real game content.

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Just do a Auction House and have the items on consignment! Instead of the whole bidding crap. You set your own prices and there should be a annoymus mailing system for example: I want +50Str Bracers. I go too a market house and type in "Felt Bracers" It pulls up all Felt Bracers currently being sold in every Eroza market house. It has a page system where I can flip through and see all the Felt Bracers not only the cheapest ones. I find a pair listed for 99,999,999. It gives me 2 options: Buy or Message Seller. With message seller it sends my message to the seller to work out a better price but keeps the sellers info a Secret "Prevents Targets for Hackers/Phishers" I offer 30mil he accepts. Seller then mails me item with a 30mil COD Attached to my mail box. I go to a mail box it takes my 30mil and gives me the Bracers.

Once they centralize every thing they just need to have a little tutorial quest that runs new players into the mercantile and runs them through the search function.

The thread title is redundant the wards are an ah now. there is no verses.

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Originally Posted by Titans

This game been around for 2 years with the wards in it, why change it.

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With that mentality why do with bother to fix the game at all. Yeah lets not even bother with 2.0 since the games been like this for 2 years.

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Originally Posted by Searious

With that mentality why do with bother to fix the game at all. Yeah lets not even bother with 2.0 since the games been like this for 2 years.

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The market wards need some fixing, but they don't need to be replaced. Not every idea that FFXIV originally had was INHERENTLY terrible- just not implemented well in many cases.

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Originally Posted by Searious

With that mentality why do with bother to fix the game at all. Yeah lets not even bother with 2.0 since the games been like this for 2 years.

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What??? not everyone disliked the game because it didn't have an AH. It fail because of the lack of content. If you want AH, stay with 11.

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Originally Posted by Titans

What??? not everyone disliked the game because it didn't have an AH. It fail because of the lack of content. If you want AH, stay with 11.

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Like 11 is the only game that uses an AH.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The market wards need some fixing, but they don't need to be replaced. Not every idea that FFXIV originally had was INHERENTLY terrible- just not implemented well in many cases.

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Personally for me it has nothing to do with "old FFXIV" ideas.. it has to do with what's important.. The main point of this system is gil exchange, why make it complicated? Do supermarkets make things complicated? Do stores make things complicated? Sales & Marketing is all about ease & convenience... this ward system also allows price gouging because not everyone can list their item for competition on pricing.. undercutting helps those w/o lot of funds & helps prices stabilize.

It's a waste of developmental energy.. A tutorial for an AH system? How many people like tutorials? It's also unfamiliar to people who play many MMOs, why make such a simple system so complicated? Waste of effort..

How about a way to know when items have sold?
How about a Salon to change character hairstyles?
How about making in-game items linkable so ppl know wtf the item is? [item] drops omg whats the stats??? nbdy knows..
How about making achievements linkable so ppl can show off their achievements?
How about adding more weapon variety?
How about a "bid" feature?

The list goes on, this is a sidetrack issue that's a waste of time that could go into other things...

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Originally Posted by Baxter

Um, I don't see what that has to do with what I posted.



and thanks Elexia, I didn't know that. I think that will successfully relieve the issue of having 'prime real estate' (uldah).

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Why would you need a "room" when you go to the AH npc and simply put stuff up for sale? No room needed, just another tab in the AH window for "sale items"

Guess I'm the only one who doesn't mind checking all Merchantile Houses for items. They all basically do what an Auction House would anyway. But everyone seems settled on this "Let's do everything in Uldah" kick and call it a hub, but it's not even the "center" of anything. No one is walking from Uldah to Lim-Lom or Grid, they weren't even doing it in the first place.

People only started huddling there because the population was a little sparse way back when, but now we have multitudes of people and everyone still wants to hang out in one city. SE doesn't seem to want people to do that this time around, so they're trying to get people to, in a way, represent themselves in their own city-state.

So yeah...

Seriously like someone said... you guys who LOVE this system, take your retainer out Uldah and start putting them in Grid wards.. then come back and talk.. Until then you rly shouldnt talk.

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The main point of this system is gil exchange, why make it complicated?

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It's... not really that complicated. They could simplify some things, like automate retainer placement and just let you give your items to the same UI that accesses the search function to sell them. Then it would be basically an auction house, with some extra features.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

Personally for me it has nothing to do with "old FFXIV" ideas.. it has to do with what's important.. The main point of this system is gil exchange, why make it complicated? Do supermarkets make things complicated? Do stores make things complicated? Sales & Marketing is all about ease & convenience... this ward system also allows price gouging because not everyone can list their item for competition on pricing.. undercutting helps those w/o lot of funds & helps prices stabilize.

It's a waste of developmental energy.. A tutorial for an AH system? How many people like tutorials? It's also unfamiliar to people who play many MMOs, why make such a simple system so complicated? Waste of effort..

How about a way to know when items have sold?
How about a Salon to change character hairstyles?
How about making in-game items linkable so ppl know wtf the item is? [item] drops omg whats the stats??? nbdy knows..
How about making achievements linkable so ppl can show off their achievements?
How about adding more weapon variety?
How about a "bid" feature?

The list goes on, this is a sidetrack issue that's a waste of time that could go into other things...



Why would you need a "room" when you go to the AH npc and simply put stuff up for sale? No room needed, just another tab in the AH window for "sale items"

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Well, the room was for the auction house npcs. As it is right now they have the mercantile stewards located in separate rooms. If you place them all in the same room, people will use Limsa Lominsan, and Gridanian wards. They wouldn't have to travel to an entirely separate room just to view wares from another city-state. I do not know the specifics of 2.0s server infrastructure, but if you were going to continue to have the wards in an instanced environment you could place multiple 'auction house' rooms with all three stewards from the three nations.


I have no hangups either way on what they decide do with the system. I've always felt the retainer system was a lazy man's moghouse. The system we have now is, essentially, an auction house. Though different in name, auction house all the same. We are only missing a delivery system, and as I've mentioned before, a way to bridge the main three city-states.

"bid feature:"

You know what? I don't want bidding. I'd rather have everything stay buyouts. I want to buy an item and receive it right then and there, not wait hours for the auction to finish.

As long as item search is segregated, Uldah will always win. And as long as there is a limit to the number of retainers in a ward, people not in Uldah are at a severe disadvantage. When I'm looking for quick items like ingots, or leather, or even food, I'm not going to spend the time to shop around the wards. I'll check Uldah and just buy from there.

I don't get the point of retainers in wards anymore anyway. Does anyone actually go to the physical retainers to shop anymore? Just let us use our retainers as storage instead of forcing them to stay in wards. And let us just have an auction house.

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I don't get the point of retainers in wards anymore anyway. Does anyone actually go to the physical retainers to shop anymore?

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Yes. I do, to save the search fee. I'm not rich and I don't like being wasteful, so unless I'm in a hurry, I'll take the time to go to the retainer to avoid the search fee. And on one or two occasions, I've actually bought other stuff sold by the same retainer. Funny how that happens sometimes. The retainers offer oppertunities for secondary sales.

I also really like the anonymity the retainers provide, as their name appears in the history, not the player's name.