Monster Hunter and FFXIV

I don't know how many of you are avid Monster Hunter fans, but I find it to have a fantastic balance of addicting content and at the same time it is very accessible for players that only have an hour at a time to play. It also has a role system based off of weapons - which is similar in a way to the FFXIV armory system.

Now granted, MH is an action/strategy game and FFXIV is a MMORPG, but I wonder if some game-play elements in MH could enhance the FFXIV experience in some way.

One basic concept (that other people on the forums have spoken to already) is the toughness of monsters in the FFXIV. Put simply, Most monster HP is far too low and battles end quickly with very little gained in the way of player personal experience or strategy. In contrast, Monster Hunter pitted players against monsters with abnormally high HP, extremely powerful yet avoidable attacks, hidden weaknesses and a limit on both time and deaths.

Imagine if the guildleve or behest system was revamped to work more like Monster Hunter. After signing up, you (and your party) travel out to a somewhat isolated section of the map (instanced?) to face down a single large monster (or a tight party of smaller ones) that would require strategy, study, coordination, and most of the time limit to kill. Rewards for the leve should mainly be exp/sp and potentially rare crafting materials based on damage to specific parts of the monster. In addition, there could be a limit on the total amount of player deaths during a leve, after that limit is reached, the leve ends in failure. I think this would give players a real sense of challenge in keeping themselves alive and would eliminate zerging.

Other elements of Monster Hunter that might work well in FFXIV is the way that armor-based skills/attributes functioned. Every piece of armor had skills with a positive or negative value attached to it, but in order to activate that skill, you needed a value of 10 or more. Conversely, if the value of a skill was -10 or less you received a penalty in that skill or attribute.

In FFXIV this could be done quite easily first with attributes, and later with buffs and penalties to class skills. Imagine if all mage gear had penalties to combat stats like VIT, STR, DEX, or HP, in addition to the boosts to MP, INT, Casting Speed, etc.. A helm for Marauders might a bonus to attacking speed but have a penalty that caps MP at zero.A set of Light Armor could give a VIT and HP penalty but enhances casting speed and DEX (RDM anyone?) The possibilities are almost endless...

Just some thoughts. Any other MH players out there with ideas?

Like it!, I dont like the FF battles, it`s doesn`t have any tactics!!. This would be a great idea n__n

well Funcom just announced they are working on server side PhysX. Wonder how this will work. probably destructable enviroment will be in effect. wish they did that for FFXIV

Pretty sure we have those, called Notorious Monsters(NM) xD However, I do agree for the most part monsters are far to easy to kill at times, but for guildleve's you can always make it harder, if its to easy at 5 star, then maybe you should go to the next ranked camps. As for behest, ya I would love to see a change in that where its a single mob or a select few for a large group, like a few mini-bosses then a boss spawns after you kill the mini-bosses maybe. However on World map mobs, I do not agree a lot of mobs should be harder, need to keep solo-ability at a good point for the more casual players.

You did bring up some interesting points though, good post.

And sorry no, I do not play Monster Hunter. :(

But Monsters, in Monster Hunter were really easy. It was actually pretty one-sided. All the monsters have a pattern. The only time they break their pattern, is by some miracle they manage to pin you into a wall, they will never let you up.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

But Monsters, in Monster Hunter were really easy. It was actually pretty one-sided. All the monsters have a pattern. The only time they break their pattern, is by some miracle they manage to pin you into a wall, they will never let you up.

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True, but discovering that pattern was a great part of the MH experience. Once you figured out the pattern and the tells, you still had to master the execution side of it and the high HP, powerful attacks, and limited time didn't leave much room for error (especially for G-rank Monsters). It was only easy after spending a long time upgrading your gear and getting accustomed to that particular monster's pattern of attack over the span of many battles. The 'easyness' was a reward in and of itself, and after mastering one fight, there was always another challenge waiting for you.

FFXIV could push this concept further with the amount of variety in different classes, elements, etc, and requiring coordination to exploit weaknesses or defend against certain Monsters.

I think FFXI did some of this with the ENM, and BC fights, but it would be nice to see the concept become a the normal experience for FFXIV players.

I used Narga Kuga U set! Any set with evade +2/Evade Distance up was so awesome! There was only one monster I couldn't evade. Akantor, it actually made me have to use a defensive set, like Shen Goaren's X set, and steel uragaan U to be able to not be hurt by it.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I used Narga Kuga U set! Any set with evade +2/Evade Distance up was so awesome! There was only one monster I couldn't evade. Akantor, it actually made me have to use a defensive set, like Shen Goaren's X set, and steel uragaan U to be able to not be hurt by it.

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Yes, the Narga gear rocks, but (I assume) you played the majority of the game without it so you must understand MH's depth of game-play and challenge.. I wouldn't call the game 'easy' even after you get the Narga gear as an inexperienced player will die just as quickly with it as without it.

This 'personal experience' aspect to MH would also be nice in FFXIV. No matter how good your gear is, It would be nice to have some mobs that really put your playing and teamwork skills to the test.

Me and my friends came up with a small joke from Monster Hunter 1, and it actually became a serious saying. "If you can beat a kut-ku, you can beat anything". Because that is the only point in the game you have absolutely nothing. Once you beat you have the tools to beat any monster to improve your gear. The Kut-ku was also the only wyvern without a pattern.

Tri and Portable 3rd are joke games, if you step into those games brand new, never playing the other and think it's hard, it really isn't.

Sorry to get back to the topic, I think the carving system would be awesome in this game after killing a NM.

As for leve's the time limit would be cool, but the number of players to die wouldn't work. That means it could possibly fail with one good aoe damage.

A idea: I am sorry I forgot the name, gunners, should have special bullets that allow them to blow off certain monster's body parts. Like the Great Buffalo Horns.

The idea of a heavy gunner class in FFXIV is a cool one on its own. It's could be like the Engineer or Chemist Jobs in other FF games (FFVI, FFTactics). As Eorzea technology is more along the lines of FFVI, I don't think the weapon would be out of place at all in this game.

What I'd like from Monster hunter is how when you break a certain body part, it shows some visible effect...
The limb doesn't have to be falling off... but in MH sometimes all you'd see is cracked or damaged looking scales or something like that... Incaps in this game could be more like that
like when you break a rathalos wing or talon and they just show it kind of mangled or beat up looking....
Head and arm incaps should be like that in FFXIV

Well I do love me some monster hunter.

(and they literally could just ask capcom and they'd be like "sure have a rathalos on the house")

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Originally Posted by Rydin

What I'd like from Monster hunter is how when you break a certain body part, it shows some visible effect...
The limb doesn't have to be falling off... but in MH sometimes all you'd see is cracked or damaged looking scales or something like that... Incaps in this game could be more like that
like when you break a rathalos wing or talon and they just show it kind of mangled or beat up looking....
Head and arm incaps should be like that in FFXIV

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they actually have that already apparently, its one of those things only explained on one article in the lodestone.

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Originally Posted by Nephera

Well I do love me some monster hunter.

(and they literally could just ask capcom and they'd be like "sure have a rathalos on the house")

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heh, they might.. After all, they did it for Konami with MGS:Peace Walker

But I don't think its SE's style...

If they made a MH mmo i would be there in a heart beat.I always asked for ffxiv to take that approach but it went complete opposite direction even having the theories right.
/sad

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

If they made a MH mmo i would be there in a heart beat.I always asked for ffxiv to take that approach but it went complete opposite direction even having the theories right.
/sad

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The purpose of this thread is to see what kind of support there is for incorporating more MH style ideas into FFXIV. Maybe the devs will take notice.

It wouldn't be difficult. Suggested changes thus far:

• Add leves that pit players against single giant mobs with lots of HP and interesting attack patterns. Give players an avenue to really put their skills and teamwork to the test.
  
• Each mob would drop special materials which can be crafted into unique armor and weapon sets. Some drops would be based on damage to certain parts of the mob.
  
• Add total death limits to leves. After X total player deaths, the leve ends in failure.
  
• Give all gear penalties as well as bonuses to stats. Let the gear determine the role of your class.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

The purpose of this thread is to see what kind of support there is for incorporating more MH style ideas into FFXIV. Maybe the devs will take notice.

It wouldn't be difficult. They just need to add leves that pit players against single giant mobs with lots of HP and interesting attack patterns. Give players an avenue to really put their skills and teamwork to the test.

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Cant do because they choose targeting and rpg style instead of a more action like battle system .so honestly unless they made all skills collision like system i dont see it happening .

Also, MH is completely based on what weapon or armor you wear.FFXIV is the opposite.

The only similarity is incapacitation.

After playing 140+ hours of Monster Hunter tri 3 I can honestly say that that game is NOT easy!! o__O()

Oh dear lord no!

Of course the monsters have patterns that's how 99% of action games work.

It's an awesome game though. I wish crafting in XIV would be like item combination in MH3. Nobody I know enjoys the act of crafting anyway since there's nothing game-like involved in it. If the gameplay came from actually gathering the materials then you'd have all kinds of emergent gameplay even with the way XIV is now. Everybody would want to do something else than the leves to farm items and sell them forward or to craft them.

What I'd really like to see too is that some gear is like proof of your playing skill and can't be simply bought. I love my pimped up Lagicaurus gear because just by seeing that other players just know that I won't fail a simple Ludorth run by double-karting while KO'd.

I think MH also shows how inventory limitation can be a great gameplay element. I always say that bad game-designers "streamline" everything they can't design =)

Of course the ideal way to fix crafting would be to make all the jobs be different minigames, but to be honest I'm not so sure SE could pull that off given how bad the current crafting systems are. I mean SOMEBODY must have thought the current system is a good idea and he's probably in charge of designing such systems...

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Cant do because they choose targeting and rpg style instead of a more action like battle system .so honestly unless they made all skills collision like system i dont see it happening .

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There are other ways of focusing attacks on specific parts. FFXIV already determines which arc you are attacking in, so it could be just a matter of positioning as well as the current animation state of the monster. (IE, you attack from the front arc while the mobs head is lowered, you do head damage..)

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Also, MH is completely based on what weapon or armor you wear.FFXIV is the opposite.

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FFXIV is completely based on weapon. If they made each piece of armor more focused and distinct, it would be pretty similar actually

after played MH tri, i'll never, EVER touch a psp mh again. Not for the semplified concepts, but for the lack of control. In psp's mh you should have a 3° arm to move AND rotate the camera.
Maybe if the new psp will have 2 analog sticks....
Back on FFXIV there's already monsters showing incapacitation or broken limbs, it's a feature i love it. Devs, make it an important part of the new battle content :P

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

There are other ways of focusing attacks on specific parts. FFXIV already determines which arc you are attacking in, so it could be just a matter of positioning as well as the current animation state of the monster. (IE, you attack from the front arc while the mobs head is lowered, you do head damage..)


FFXIV is completely based on weapon. If they made each piece of armor more focused and distinct, it would be pretty similar actually

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FFXIV is based on your rank vs the mob rank . Weapon gear and stats have lite impact.

How to make FFXIV like Monster Hunter:

1. Take away health bars.

2. Make all monsters 3X bigger.

3. Add Flashbombs (and then call anyone who uses them a cheater).

On-topic though:

On the topic of armor, I'd rather they stick with a large variety of armor tailored to different classes as opposed to MH's philosophy of "All melee, here's an armor type. All gunners, here's an armor type." I do like the gemming concept, though it's much older than Monster Hunter lol. I would LOVE to make armor that resembled a certain creature it's made out of though, like an Ureaus or Dodore set :D

As far as the quests go, they could add such a system and make it something entirely new. Kind of like guild leves but you fight one big monster that takes at least 20 minutes to down.

FFXIV has a different philosophy as far as time goes. Take Ureaus for example. Instead of making the fight extremely hard and a test of endurance, it's practically limited to doing as much damage as possible in under half an hour. In Monster Hunter the time limit is generally 50 minutes, though 30 for things like Lao Shan and Jhen Moran. The true difficulty comes in a test of endurance lasting at least 20 minutes, probably closer to 40 if your team is under-geared and it's their first time.

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Originally Posted by Nephera

they actually have that already apparently, its one of those things only explained on one article in the lodestone.

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to an extent... I've done just about every incap you can do on most mobs out there....
Some have visual effects... like incaping horns on a buffalo (other left and other right) to horns on an aldgoat (Head incaP) and even the head of a skeleton (Head incap)
But say you fight a human mob, like a footpad, or beastman like the Amalj'aa or Goblins..... You break the legs...... No signs of it other than a fleeting message in a hyperspeed chat log.... No falling on the ground.... No damaged appendages or ripped clothing... at least show me a scar or something
You cut the tail off of a drake (Other Outer incap) and nothing.... show me some damaged scales.... some visual cue....
Incap the legs on a cockatrice, head on almost everything except Peiste and Skeletons and you see nothing....
I need to see something...
Here is another example... incap the shell of a crab (Other Outer) and again, you see nothing.... at least show me some cracks in the shell
Eyes can have their eye incapped (Head incap) or their tails cut off (Outer Other) and neither shows any sign.... Why not make the eye get all veiny and red or make the tail look really limp when it is incapped
I could really go on all day like this

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

FFXIV is based on your rank vs the mob rank . Weapon gear and stats have lite impact.

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Ahh, I was speaking more of the role you play in a group, but you are correct.

re:Arcell

LOL at flashbomb comment. So true. I guess in FFXI the spell Stun filled that role.

After FFXI put a cap on the amount of time you could spend fighting bosses like AV or Pandemonium Warden, battles become quite similar to what you are describing - effectively a balance between survival and damage dealing all against the clock. I don't see why FFXIV couldn't incorporate some of that, not just for boss fights, but as guildleve options as well.

Currently, with behests and most leves being as straight forward as they are, there isn't anything to test a player's skill or even job performance.

It's one of the reasons why there is barely a market for food items in the game.

I love monster hunter, but I doubt SE would want to think outside of the box like that. lol

I AM A VIVID MONSTER HUNTER FAN. I have nothing else of value to add. I just wanted to say that lol

also wanted to say, tri and portable 3 aren't joke games.. they're just more user friendly. and I've been out of practice for a while, but p3rd is kinda whooping my ass.. then again I am playing solo a lot. Tri was really easy for me, since they introduced lance counter and I dominate with a lance. Altareon was probably the only challenge I faced in that game. And when you get his pattern down he's a breeze.

My Favorite monster to fight is Barioth! Big monster wise- it's Jhen Moaren.

Funniest moment was when me and 3 friends fought Shen Goaren, the giant crab. We broken all his legs and someone was underneath him. Insert old cartoon character being crushed by 1 ton. I couldn't stop laughing. He died from it.