A Realm Reborn Camera handling change?

so after watching over and over again the pre-alpha build of A Realm Reborn, and wonder did the camera function change?

in the current 1.X, when you rotate the camera and there is this thing that suppose to block your character view will instead zoom into your character, this function I love the most since it emphasis of our character camera and not the environment.


but when i get to see the gamescom and the 25th FF Anniversary videos, the camera handling is change to that of covering the character! D:

if you guys see it in the video and test it on your character in game right now,(as i am now too) and see the video of the pre-alpha build.... What do you think?

For my opinion zooming in would be much better, i mean the current camera handling is much much preferred than that of the one shown in the pre-alpha build.

my next suggestion (on post #3) is to delete the obstacle view instead, and do not zoom in.

as example what i mean is as below...


Blue Line = Camera View
Black Dot = Character
Box = Obstacle

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...T5gT4F5stw.png

Actually looking forward to no zooming. Pita for tanking.

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Originally Posted by Skeezix

Actually looking forward to no zooming. Pita for tanking.

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I too as a tanker find it a little bad because is going to cause me hard to see @_@, unless they change it to a way that rather than looking at obstacle, clearing the obstacle away is much better no?

here another example of a prefered Camera handling.

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...T5gT4F5stw.png

That's a pretty good suggestion. its really annoying to tank with your back against the wall. Or if you're tanking a huge mob like... H-1 from CN~ You cant see anything. I hope they implement your idea

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Originally Posted by Astrix

That's a pretty good suggestion. its really annoying to tank with your back against the wall. Or if you're tanking a huge mob like... H-1 from CN~ You cant see anything. I hope they implement your idea

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Thank you if you do like my suggestion, do hope to click the like button on post #3 to get some dev's attention :)

I dunno, I find myself in any game getting into position and then panning the camera to whatever side allows me to see the rest of my team best. I'm sure they could create some kind of filter for obstacles for when your character in battle goes behind something it becomes transparent. Playing Wakfu right now and it is on a toggle button. Would be more taxing graphically I would think in 2.0 than Wakfu though.

Edit: I'd be more happy with a true top down view though. If we were able to pan the camera farther up and not just away, we wouldn't have to worry as much.

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Originally Posted by Skeezix

I dunno, I find myself in any game getting into position and then panning the camera to whatever side allows me to see the rest of my team best. I'm sure they could create some kind of filter for obstacles for when your character in battle goes behind something it becomes transparent. Playing Wakfu right now and it is on a toggle button. Would be more taxing graphically I would think in 2.0 than Wakfu though.

Edit: I'd be more happy with a true top down view though. If we were able to pan the camera farther up and not just away, we wouldn't have to worry as much.

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Hmm you like playing some sort of Isometric View?

I don't have much insight on this, but- I do have to say that the camera suddenly going "HUGS!" at my character when i'm moving it around and there is a god-forsaken leaf on the way is very, very annoying, specially when i'm trying to get a good angle to combo something on my Dragoon.

However, your third suggestion. A long time ago I was talking with a friend of mine who's studying game-making, most specifically the graphical aspect. I suggested that to him since I was really, really angry at the camera, his immediate answer was "It is not that simple". I do believe that the solution you are asking for is actually unexpectedly complex, specially for game like this.

Adding options C would not be terribly difficult. Just make a few small adjustments to the near Clipping Plane and turn culling on if it is not already. You would need to render the raw terrain (the actually ground, for instance) and character/NPC models on a separate render surface then merge the two images - basically a two-pass solution, one for the terrain and other characters that has a very tight near clipping plane, then a second pass for the features that has a near clipping plane equal to the distance from your character to the camera.

It would actually reduce overall overhead by culling out any objects behind your character. Meaning less rendering in the end.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by Skies

However, your third suggestion. A long time ago I was talking with a friend of mine who's studying game-making, most specifically the graphical aspect. I suggested that to him since I was really, really angry at the camera, his immediate answer was "It is not that simple". I do believe that the solution you are asking for is actually unexpectedly complex, specially for game like this.

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If I was to hazard a wager, your friend was referring to the difficulty of removing a part of an object when your camera passes through it. That is the only flaw in the changes I mentioned above. DirectX is not designed to allow you to easily (okay with some fiddling it is possible) remove individual sections of a discrete mesh. This means that if there is a tree between you and the camera, the entire tree has to be removed, not just part of it.

Edit Mk2:

That being said, on further thought, I do not know if that solution would be advisable. Namely because it would cause objects to spontaneously pop into existence once they were in front of your character. A better solution would be to give the camera a collider that dispatched an event when it hits an object and automatically turns off the renderer on the struck object until the camera leaves the drawing volume of the object.

This solution is a little slower, but significantly more robust.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

Adding options C would not be terribly difficult. Just make a few small adjustments to the near Clipping Plane and turn culling on if it is not already. You would need to render the raw terrain (the actually ground, for instance) and character/NPC models on a separate render surface then merge the two images - basically a two-pass solution, one for the terrain and other characters that has a very tight near clipping plane, then a second pass for the features that has a near clipping plane equal to the distance from your character to the camera.

It would actually reduce overall overhead by culling out any objects behind your character. Meaning less rendering in the end.

Edit:


If I was to hazard a wager, your friend was referring to the difficulty of removing a part of an object when your camera passes through it. That is the only flaw in the changes I mentioned above. DirectX is not designed to allow you to easily (okay with some fiddling it is possible) remove individual sections of a discrete mesh. This means that if there is a tree between you and the camera, the entire tree has to be removed, not just part of it.

Edit Mk2:

That being said, on further thought, I do not know if that solution would be advisable. Namely because it would cause objects to spontaneously pop into existence once they were in front of your character. A better solution would be to give the camera a collider that dispatched an event when it hits an object and automatically turns off the renderer on the struck object until the camera leaves the drawing volume of the object.

This solution is a little slower, but significantly more robust.

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Great suggestion, overall im fine as long as it did not cover my character view is ok for me, it will be hard incase there is something that i should be watching out for but my character view is being block by obstacle, so either completely do not render what ever in between the character and our view or blurring or making it transparent what ever is in between the character and our view.

I'd worry more about the camera and movements being more like Guild Wars 2 than 1.xx in 2.0.
It's terribad and doesn't fit the pace of the game.

But yeah against the wall tanking usually = lock off and turning the camera sideways

How about when you're talking under Bazaar tents or through tight hallways with ridges on the roof. Camera goes round and round.. round and round....

Id like a smoother bump if anything... I just go first person at certain points in the game because I cant take the jarring pops all over the place.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

How about when you're talking under Bazaar tents or through tight hallways with ridges on the roof. Camera goes round and round.. round and round....

Id like a smoother bump if anything... I just go first person at certain points in the game because I cant take the jarring pops all over the place.

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isn't that y i suggest the last pic iin it to just unrendered the obstacle :D

Tis' why I thumbs up'ed your post :P

Something- needs to be done about the camera.

It's more like this:

http://i.imgur.com/8mXz7.jpg

this is a big issue and has been annoying me since day one #>.<' Option C please devs! Also, a zoom that can zoom a little farther would be great. Almost impossible to see anything but mob butts and swishy magic effects sometimes. Really need a better way to get an overall view of the fight.

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Originally Posted by Akubikumo

this is a big issue and has been annoying me since day one #>.<' Option C please devs! Also, a zoom that can zoom a little farther would be great. Almost impossible to see anything but mob butts and swishy magic effects sometimes. Really need a better way to get an overall view of the fight.

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Thank you :)

Great diagrams. I'm all for making objects that the camera crops into transparent.

I would love for option 3
For me, my biggest irritation with the camera is if it gets too close to the ground
the screen will start to act like its having a seizure

I hate the zoom. It sucks to be locked onto something in battle when you're against a wall, and you can't really change the camera, so you're stuck looking at mob feet ('cause I'm short). But yeah, if the obstacle is a WALL, I agree with 'erasing' it...but if its something else...what if I have my camera over there because I'm attempting to get a really good look at it? I've had many times where I've swiveled things inbetween me and the camera in order to get a close look at it. And it would be kinda lame if the camera went around erasing things you didn't want it to... So... I guess, realistically, they should stick with how it is but without the zoom. :/

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Originally Posted by Akubikumo

this is a big issue and has been annoying me since day one #>.<' Option C please devs! Also, a zoom that can zoom a little farther would be great. Almost impossible to see anything but mob butts and swishy magic effects sometimes. Really need a better way to get an overall view of the fight.

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Edit* I realize I can't find the words to explain what I mean and all other words will likely miscommunicate, so...nevermind.

I just felt like bumping^^

*clicks the like button*

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Originally Posted by Punainen

I hate the zoom. It sucks to be locked onto something in battle when you're against a wall, and you can't really change the camera, so you're stuck looking at mob feet ('cause I'm short). But yeah, if the obstacle is a WALL, I agree with 'erasing' it...but if its something else...what if I have my camera over there because I'm attempting to get a really good look at it? I've had many times where I've swiveled things inbetween me and the camera in order to get a close look at it. And it would be kinda lame if the camera went around erasing things you didn't want it to... So... I guess, realistically, they should stick with how it is but without the zoom. :/

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I am not on my pc and im using my phone to reply this. Maybe if its isnt too much but maybe making it blur or transparent instead

This is what i meant

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...T5gT4F5stw.png

can.. i bump this? :D

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

can.. i bump this? :D

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/cough

/10char

I don't think I understand what the OP says.

But when seeing ARR's camera it seems disjointed from the character. Like some sort of global camera.
I dislike that.

I'm not sure if this thread is about that.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I don't think I understand what the OP says.

But when seeing ARR's camera it seems disjointed from the character. Like some sort of global camera.
I dislike that.

I'm not sure if this thread is about that.

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try see the first ARR Alpha trailer, when the camera move and it came into a view of tree, instead of seeing your character, you see the tree instead... that is what is all about...

the diagram shows what i really meant.

I think 1.0s version is probably the best approach for this subject.

As you said, having an obstacle obstructing the view between the camera and your character is not good, I agree with that.
However, you can't just think about hiding a part or the whole object and here's why:

Imagine you're tanking a boss against a wall. With the camera behind you, you'd just hide the wall. However, since the camera is far away from the character. You would see all this space below the floor (just like how you saw the ocean when you got stuck in 1.0).
I couldn't find a better picture, but this one shows exactly what I mean.
http://s3.vidimg.popscreen.com/origi...n-sequence.jpg

A lot of games simply don't change the camera and it goes through objects and this happens, which I find it to be horrible and break the whole idea you have of a game map. 1.0s approach was really good since it kept the camera view inside the map's "borders" at all times.
Now you could separate the way the camera works for the terrain and the objects, but the example you gave of tanking against a wall wouldn't really fit.

So it's not a simple problem to solve and 1.0s was, however, really good at this. I hope the camera collision comes back ;P

In order to ensure no one is disappointed, why don't they add your idea and have an option to keep their new idea of camera angle.