Ragdoll Physics on Bosses

A number of people have noticed, in the Limit Break portion of the video, that the dragon is bouncing around like a rag doll. We were wondering if the team will be adding weight to the bosses so that when hit they are aren't hopping around on the screen with no sense of weight to them at all. A good example of what we'd like to see are the bosses in Dark Souls.

I was worried about that too and I brought it up with my Linkshell. Everyone thinks it looks terrible.

I don't think it looks terrible, I mean wouldn't you flinch in any manner if you were being cut, sliced, punched, caught on fire, and etc, I mean it's gotta be painful and if they just don't react then it's just a lifeless monster.

I like it but would like it much better if it only happened if players dealt an amount of damage that exceeds a certain % of the HP. For bosses something like 3-5% of their HP would equate to a stagger or flinching. Also they should have it happen all the time when the boss is below 15% of their max HP.

This indicates progression throughout the encounter.

I think it bounce to much too. Would be prefect if the dev team tweak it a little bit so they don't look like they're made out of rubber. It also looks worst on Bombs.

I thought ragdoll physics were for deaths? I definitely don't want to see any ragdoll deaths, I think they make games look stupid. There has been so many times I've seen a body fly unrealistic distances in other games, as well as a few times I've seen a body catapulted 1000s of feet up in the air, not to mention them sliding around once they're dead on the floor.

What are you talking about? It just looks like he has a "hit" animation, just like everything does now. Go use Simian Thrash on Ifrit, and you'll see him reacting the exact same way.

This isn't "Ragedoll physics" It's a hit animation.

Although I would agree that they need to tone down the monster flinching 20 times during certain battle animations like Simian thrash and riot blade.

It's a bit too much because there's no threshold of "pain" compared to FFXI, but it's definitely not ragdoll -- Ragdoll physics would be the death of this game's graphical style.

I don't think you guys get what he's saying. There's a difference between reacting to a hit and bouncing around like you flicked a damn bobble head. (p.s. what Simian Thrash / Rage of Halone does to mobs in this version looks like shit)

There is one thing i really hope they fix with 2.0. You know when you stand on something like the stairs and you have one foot on the surface and the other one is up in the air like it's standing on a invisable platform, I much rather see them fix that than some "bouncy physics".

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Originally Posted by Lirion

There is one thing i really hope they fix with 2.0. You know when you stand on something like the stairs and you have one foot on the surface and the other one is up in the air like it's standing on a invisable platform, I much rather see them fix that than some "bouncy physics".

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Eh, that depends on the engine since that, like ragdoll physics, is also one of the most glitchest cosmetic physics in gaming.

Yeah game needs more rag doll physics I agree with the OP, make it happen Tanaka!

Ragdoll pyshics and knockback needs to go away!

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Originally Posted by leomax

Ragdoll pyshics and knockback needs to go away!

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Knockback needs to stay and just be adjusted.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Knockback needs to stay and just be adjusted.

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Yeah they need to make every basic attack from a big mob knock you back. This needs to obviously use ragdoll physics to make it good.

I think this would be good for the video game.

Has no one ever seen 6 MNKs punching the crap out of Miser's Mistress in Aurum Vale?

Now, the mob's movements when that happens looks terrible. ^^

Love the trailer but this is the one thing that bothered me. I know it may not make it to launch but I'd rather say something now than hope they know there's a problem and fix it. Between the dragon, giant and cat, it REALLY looks crappy how much they bounce around getting hit. Like someone above said this is fine if they have a damage thresh hold so it only happens once in a while IF you deal enough damage but as it stands now it looks super cartoonish. Please don't let this go to launch!

I definitely want the mob to move sometimes when i strike them, it makes me feel more powerful rather than just me getting knocked back all the time. It should be really toned down though from whats in the trailer, especially for large enemies. a damage threshold for such a wild animation should be in place like folks have been saying. maybe on a critical hit? regular hits they can just flinch a little.

they actually toned it down considerably from the first limit break clip showed at gamescom

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

I like it but would like it much better if it only happened if players dealt an amount of damage that exceeds a certain % of the HP. For bosses something like 3-5% of their HP would equate to a stagger or flinching. Also they should have it happen all the time when the boss is below 15% of their max HP.

This indicates progression throughout the encounter.

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I agree with this.

While the dragon's animation in the trailer is no different than bosses today that doesn't mean that I like the behavior in 1.0 either. I think having the monster react to weapons skills/percent damage/critical hits only would be much more effective.

Having a ferocious beast seemingly unphased by your normal attack makes that beast much more intimidating, giving the fight a greater sense of challenge. It also opens up psychological avenues as well. What happens when that previously unflinching ferocious beast reacts in pain to your critical weapon skill. That feels like a much greater accomplishment than if it were just standard behavior, and I think that's the core of the problem.

Upon the first watch I didn't really notice anything wrong with the fight. When I fight Ifrit I don't really notice it either. If it were more of a rare occurrence then maybe I would and it would also provide me with a positive feedback loop.

So in my opinion, while it's not a problem per se, I think the feel of battle would greatly benefit from "adding some weight" to bosses a little more.

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

I agree with this.

While the dragon's animation in the trailer is no different than bosses today that doesn't mean that I like the behavior in 1.0 either. I think having the monster react to weapons skills/percent damage/critical hits only would be much more effective.

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Yeah, since a lot of enemies feel weightless, especially after getting rid of collision detection.

Kinda necro posting here but.. Having played alpha, I believe this excessive boss flinching needs to be fixed. The final dungeon boss bounces around like crazy each time he gets hit he flinches a ton. Seems kinda fake to me and I would prefer that he only flinch once in a while or maybe say after each time a combo is executed or something or after certain damage thresholds

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Originally Posted by Diminou

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I'd delete this post if I were you.
/NDA

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

I'd delete this post if I were you.
/NDA

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ehh. he's just saying they haven't changed it from what we saw in the limit break trailer.

And yes the dragon definitely bounces too much. Doesn't sound hard to fix so we'll see how things are in beta. After all, that's a more updated ARR so maybe its been taken into account. Nothing wrong with mentioning it now though. Whoever seemingly doesn't think anything is wrong must have not seen the trailer. Go watch it.

Off-topic - Watching that trailer again got me a little excited. I'm still looking forward to ARR despite some of my critisizm. I noticed something interesting too.. A while ago I read that the limit break for blackmage requires the group to stand in front of the blackmage (like a wall) to initiate, and indeed the group goes into a formation in front of the BM for the limit break. That's cool! XD

Wow; I cant believe ppl are still posting to this thread :) So yeah, it isn't "Ragdoll" physics like originally mentioned but the impact animation the larger enemies take look out of context. I still stand by this comment but it doesn't seem that SE will be doing anything about it at this stage.

Amy, you're my hero!! You backed me up right after my post!

Yoshi-P: Initiate "Plan B." I.E.: Take another page from FF11 and scale back impact animation so it looks less Dragonball Z-esque 24/7, so the mobs don't look like they are all taking over 9000 damage per hit.

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Originally Posted by Bittereye

Wow; I cant believe ppl are still posting to this thread :) So yeah, it isn't "Ragdoll" physics like originally mentioned but the impact animation the larger enemies take look out of context. I still stand by this comment but it doesn't seem that SE will be doing anything about it at this stage.

Amy, you're my hero!! You backed me up right after my post!

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Exactly right, ragdoll physics are something usually used in fps games when opposition or you dies. Hit animation is what we're talking about here. Also, it would be nice to see change to the stance of both monster and player as hp decrese below a certain % point too, like they are exhausted. It has been used in singleplayer FF games, and it would live up to the standard.