Do not force level caps on content - You segregate the player base

Level sync is fine so players can have the option to choose the difficulty, but making level caps on content forever segregates communities and leads to unhealthy MMO environments. Do not make this mistake.

In before people praising CoP like it's the best expansion ever in MMO history.

Hi chard! I support level cap!!

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

In before people praising CoP like it's the best expansion ever in MMO history.

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Tell me a expansion that was better in COP story and gameplay wise? the fight was hard also the level cap is what made it hard sure but that was the point :) i enjoy COP more then any other game expansion but it not the bestbest it just very good :)

but no way in hell i want level cap stuff in ffxiv.

I still don't understand how level caps 'segregate' content. If people are unwilling to help you complete something, I doubt level caps are the issue

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

In before people praising CoP like it's the best expansion ever in MMO history.

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Well.. it is the best... CoP was the best Expansion of FFXI and top 3 all time.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

In before people praising CoP like it's the best expansion ever in MMO history.

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I sure as hell thought it was! :D

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Tell me a expansion that was better in COP story and gameplay wise? the fight was hard also the level cap is what made it hard sure but that was the point :) i enjoy COP more then any other game expansion but it not the bestbest it just very good :)

but no way in hell i want level cap stuff in ffxiv.

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It was a good story, it was not jaw-dropping story however, definitely overrated like FF7 IMO. I am not going to go through why it was a bad expansion, the level cap was part of how it segregates community, there was alot of people unable to finish CoP, i finished but it was more of i-just-want-get-over-it feeling than well-that-was-certainly-tough-and-fun-fight and i never wants to help anyone that shouts on CoP mission.

That is completely different than what we have been getting here, like "United We Stand" fight, "Shadow of Raven" fight. Which was praised for being a fun and moderately tough fight. Stuff can be hard without level cap, level cap just put you on unnecessary handicap. Annoying as hell, especially when we needed gear for the particular level before and there was no gear scaling.

So. No. for me at least.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Stuff can be hard without level cap

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Not when the party is 25 levels higher than what the content was designed around

A friend of mine who started playing recently was pissed because there was no one around his level to help with baby Ifrit, and the group he got killed it before he finished watching the cutscene. He was looking forward to something that wasn't leves, and it was ruined. Level cap would have fixed that issue

Besides, XI got gear scaling, which would imply XIV would have gear scaling, so I think that's a moot point

I personally liked then Level cap system gave me a reason not to bumrush everything. Toto-Rak level 30? nope we kill it with fire at level 50! LL level 15 Dungeon, wasn't much use to it because everyone had at least 1 level 50 at that time nor was there content to do there.

When people bumrush content that leads to threads like: " Hey Yoshi-P, WHERES MY CONTENT, I DID EVERYTHING AND NOW I'M BORED!!"

That's just me though I just feel if they want to make content last longer and not beaten in a week, something along these lines have to be put in. When they Gimped Prommies hardcore style... I was like.. wow this is lamesauce now everything is too easy when your 75 SAM! >.<.

I don't know just thinking out-loud here.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I personally liked then Level cap system gave me a reason not to bumrush everything. Toto-Rak level 30? nope we kill it with fire at level 50! LL level 15 Dungeon, wasn't much use to it because everyone had at least 1 level 50 at that time nor was there content to do there.

When people bumrush content that leads to threads like: " Hey Yoshi-P, WHERES MY CONTENT, I DID EVERYTHING AND NOW I'M BORED!!"

That's just me though I just feel if they want to make content last longer and not beaten in a week, something along these lines have to be put in. When they Gimped Prommies hardcore style... I was like.. wow this is lamesauce now everything is too easy when your 75 SAM! >.<.

I don't know just thinking out-loud here.

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That's their fault, then.

I did Toto-rak at level 30, and Shposhae at level 20. If I can restrict myself what's stopping anyone else from doing the same?

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

That's their fault, then.

I did Toto-rak at level 30, and Shposhae at level 20. If I can restrict myself what's stopping anyone else from doing the same?

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Because everyone most people tend to rush toward endgame, and the people who actually want to do content at the level its provided end up suffering.

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Originally Posted by Jocko

Not when the party is 25 levels higher than what the content was designed around

A friend of mine who started playing recently was pissed because there was no one around his level to help with baby Ifrit, and the group he got killed it before he finished watching the cutscene. He was looking forward to something that was leves, and it was ruined. Level cap would have fixed that issue

Besides, XI got gear scaling, which would imply XIV would have gear scaling, so I think that's a moot point

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You know what else would be ruined? if its level capped and absolutely nobody is helping him. BOOM.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

You know what else would be ruined? if its level capped and absolutely nobody is helping him. BOOM.

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That's why forced levelsync/scaling for low level content would be great?

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

That's their fault, then.

I did Toto-rak at level 30, and Shposhae at level 20. If I can restrict myself what's stopping anyone else from doing the same?

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The point is to make long lasting content, however if most people are over leveled then do all the content, it can be beaten very quickly, I'm not talking about Difficulty of the Mission/Quest, I'm talking about ways to make content "last" and not "Rushed". Most people if they see an easier route to beat the content available, even if they don't want too. temptation will be there to actually do it.

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Originally Posted by Jocko

Besides, XI got gear scaling

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Rmoving 90% of a piece of equipment's functionality when level synched is not gear scaling.

I vote no on level capped content. I vote yes on level synch to make partying easier.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

You know what else would be ruined? if its level capped and absolutely nobody is helping him. BOOM.

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And again, I stand by that level capping isn't the do-or-break between people helping each other or not. If content is fun, people will help. Or if that's not enough, give incentives for others to help with cleared content, like seal rewards

You know what's not fun? Cheesing content. What's the point in it being there if you don't actually get to experience it the way it was intended?

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Rmoving 90% of a piece of equipment's functionality when level synched is not gear scaling.

I vote no on level capped content. I vote yes on level synch to make partying easier.

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Too bad this isn't a democracy, and more like a benevolent dictatorship.

I would at least like optional level caps, I think they could be fun (sometimes you don't have a person to sync to). We did toto-rak when it first came out with low level classes and it was great.

Well... It's probably going to happen regardless... I support it, though. Could be fun. I'm sure they learned from XI how to implement it properly from feedback... won't know until it's released I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Rau

That's why forced levelsync/scaling for low level content would be great?

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If done properly, yes. (Like Rift's mentoring).

If done like on XI, nope. Enjoy Level Sync no armor bonus edition. The scaling was horrible because SE wanted to preserve the usefulness of low level items for capped content. In the end, it was more or less the same. Without proper gear you would be almost naked stats wise. Even items that were just couple level above the cap would suffer from terrible nerf...

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You know what's not fun? Cheesing content. What's the point in it being there if you don't actually get to experience it the way it was intended?

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I don't need someone else to decide what's fun or not for me. If I have fun "cheesing content" that's my problem, not yours. Everyone is free to say "I don't want the help of high level players to clear the content, I will try with a normal group".

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Originally Posted by Rau

Because everyone most people tend to rush toward endgame, and the people who actually want to do content at the level its provided end up suffering.

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Too bad for them if they rush, again these people doesn't influence my gameplay. If they want to ruin their own adventure, so be it. If they have fun that way, good for them.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

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You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't please everyone, and you can't design a game around working with every possible preference. You have to pick a direction and fully devote yourself to making those design decisions as fulfilling as possible

Go on, try seeking a party for baby Ifrit and requesting only members of the appropriate level. Actually, I'll save you the time and tell you what'll happen: You're not going to get a party. Why is this? One, due to the pace of leveling, players at that level range are a vast minority, and two, there's no incentive to play a level appropriate class when you have maxed classes. It simply won't happen.

Now, if there were caps with rewards for completing the quest multiple times, the content is properly balanced and people make constant progress, whether they're completing the quest, or getting seals/money/whatever for helping another. Throwing that all away because some people 'like cheesing content' is foolish.

I hate the idea of both level sync and level capping content. It makes me think that the design team couldn't find a good way to implement a questing system that would allow for proper standard progression so finding parties to complete content at level is possible. Level sync just seems like a band aid fix for a broken leveling system.

Honestly I'd almost not even have experience and just have everyone "start at level 50" and have all content designed around that level of power. I just find it completely mind blowing to have a system in place that strips your character of power that he earned. If we're talking about immersion breaking systems, level capping has to be at the absolute top of that list. If you outleveled the content, you deserve the right to steamroll it.

Where did this discussion come from? They aren't going to add areas that restrict your level again. That would severely break the game for players. You rely on abilities from other classes based on their level, not just the level of your current class/job.As a result if those class' levels being lowered, actions assigned to your action bar are removed. And any equipment you have equipped would be removed if required you to be a level higher then your capped level.

Level capping areas was a mistake. Everyone knows that. You won't see it again.

I am pro level segregation. I don't want those filthy low level 'people' anywhere near me.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

In before people praising CoP like it's the best expansion ever in MMO history.

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CoP was the best expansion in MMO history ,_,

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I sure as hell thought it was! :D

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I really liked CoP, although ToAU and WotG were more in-depth with the game's lore. I think WotG was the best of the XI expansions.

As for capped missions, I don't see why they would unless they included proper gear scaling. Sure it sucks when a player gets more-or-less dragged through it while their lvl50 friends shred the boss, but it's better than a mandatory cap. There should definitely be some level-capped content for the lowby players to join their friends (and not feel rushed to skip the leveling phase) but main scenario quests should not be capped.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Where did this discussion come from? They aren't going to add areas that restrict your level again. That would severely break the game for players. You rely on abilities from other classes based on their level, not just the level of your current class/job.As a result if those class' levels being lowered, actions assigned to your action bar are removed. And any equipment you have equipped would be removed if required you to be a level higher then your capped level.

Level capping areas was a mistake. Everyone knows that. You won't see it again.

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[Citation Needed]

level cap content just prolong old contents until after a while it gets boring. its best to keep it out of the main storyline completely too, and what the dev team can do is scale the content difficulty for the teams level, and for their strength in numbers.

You think content for 16-24 member party should be cap at low levels? No thanks SE.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

what the dev team can do is scale the content difficulty for the teams level

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But this is exactly what level capping is. It's scaling in a different direction, but scaling none the less

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Originally Posted by Jocko

But this is exactly what level capping is. It's scaling in a different direction, but scaling none the less

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no, that is force scaling. example; if you're 45 or 50, you're forced to lv30.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

no, that is force scaling.

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And scaling it up isn't?

I want level scale on map, where if you are higher level going to lowbie map, your level will scale and goes to that level :D xxD lol

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Originally Posted by Jocko

And scaling it up isn't?

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if there is content that require a party of 8 lv50's anyone would expect the difficulty to be scaled appropriately, but lets say the highest member is lv60, I expect the difficulty to be scaled to match that as well. I think its better to scale up than down. edit: if its instance

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

Level sync is fine so players can have the option to choose the difficulty, but making level caps on content forever segregates communities and leads to unhealthy MMO environments. Do not make this mistake.

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well in FFXI it worked like that:

summoner prime battle (solo) lv cap lv 25 ... if you are higher than lv 25 you and your equipment was downgraded to lv 25. so it stays a challenging battle.

where is the problem with that? to one hit kill lv 25 ifrit does not really make sense to me (like we have it now).. and playing with a lv 50 character in Toto-Rak to help someone makes either no fun for both... for the highlevel nor for the low level player (who gains no exp)

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Originally Posted by Andrien

if there is content that require a party of 8 lv50's anyone would expect the difficulty to be scaled appropriately, but lets say the highest member is lv60, I expect the difficulty to be scaled to match that as well. I think its better to scale up than down. edit: if its instance

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scaling down the lv 60 character to lv 50 is the better option.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

if there is content that require a party of 8 lv50's anyone would expect the difficulty to be scaled appropriately, but lets say the highest member is lv60, I expect the difficulty to be scaled to match that as well. I think its better to scale up than down.

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I guess I don't get it. Again, it sounds like the same idea, except balancing for one level range and setting players at that level is a far simpler and efficient method as opposed to trying to balance content around having two 45's, three 50's, and three 57's in the same group. In fact, I don't see you could even do that.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

scaling down the lv 60 character to lv 50 is the better option.

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I disagree, its better if the content requirement is lv60 to begin with.

My guess is, you'll have the option to run through lowbie dungeons with friends one of two ways. #1: Level sync and continue to earn exp on your main (that you deleveled temporarily via sync for your friend). #2: steamroll them through the dungeon and not get much out of it (other than satisfaction of helping a friend). I will say that gear scaling NEEDS to be viable. FFXI was way too harsh with this. If you have a +10 strength chest, synching down to 25 should at least offer you 3-4 str, instead of 0 ontop of lower defense compared to a normal lv25 item.

I agree that level caps should go,on the condition that there is ample amount of content per each level range. The combined solution above should solve the challenge monger and the entitled steamroller issues at the same time

*edited for grammar*

Saying "level cap segregates people" is like saying "guns kill people".

People are given options, decisions and either choose what's best for them or others...

All I can do is support level cap battle so that it's a decent challenge but not too easy that you can solo.

If Ifrit was going to be capped, allow a low-man(3~5) party to take him out! You can at-least get experience fun times w/o ruining the experience..

CoP was good because the story, content was hard and you needed a group alwas and battles were hard.