Are you for or against the addition of race-based bonuses?

So I could be wrong, but I believe most MMO's include racial-bonuses. I never played WoW or GW1/2 so I am not sure how advantageous those were, I played a bit of TERA and the racials there were not bad, just small enough to give you a little bit of individuality.

I know Yoshi P has stated many times that he wants to and has planned on streamlining FFXIV: ARR into a more "standard" MMO architecture, that being said, what are the chances of his team addressing the topic of Racial skills, stats and or passives?

I personally would not mind it. There are of course some downsides, anyone who played XI knows the few seconds you might wonder about inviting that taru paladin, or that galka whm. As a taru I did feel somewhat subconscious whenever I was playing as a DD, feeling that my low HP pool and natively higher INT just felt wrong. But, when I played a mage class I was everyone's best friend.

There in lies the biggest anti-racial's issue, A player should not feel like they have to pick a race to play a job. If you want to be a roegadyn and play a whm, you should be able to without worrying about a massively slashed MP pool that you'll inevitably need to counter with your RSE -- but, that does indeed act as a counter measure. I'm sure some people did not mind, though I'd rather the HP/MP pools be left for the most part unmodified. Maybe minor stat adjustments, or actual skills / passives.

The idea of race-specific passives or actives is something that does interest me. I feel it adds a great amount of depth when you have to give reason behind a decisions you make in a video game. I would still want them to be subtle, nothing game changing in anyway, just something quirky. Some idea's off the top of my head:

Lalafell: Natures Touch -- Soothes an aggressive monster for 15 seconds, 15 min CD.

Mi'qote Hunters Prowess -- (10%) Increased damage against all prey-type enemies.

Hyur Indomitable Spirit -- Reduces damage taken by 10% when HP critical (red).

Elezen Spiritual Attunement -- Grants 500 MP to a target unit, 30 minute CD.

Roegadyn Beast Hunger -- Able to consume raw meat's from prey for temporary buffs.

I know you can already eat some meats (I think) but this would change that a bit, or give Roegadyn's the exclusive ability to eat uncooked meat, or something to that degree. Those are of course just idea's I just got off the top of my head, if anyone else has any fun concepts or idea's you are more than welcome to post, and I will try to update this post.

Some idea's from Nakiamiie

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

• Can shout twice as far (everyone can hear it from twice the distance);
• Can hear shouts from twice as far (you can hear anyone's shout from twice the distance);
• Can jump 25% higher;
• Can turn anonymous temporarily (random name and appearance change -- same race, same gender though);
• Can intimidate most city NPCs (make them shake in fear when you are close to them -- can force the NPC to give away a cheap random item, like a mini-firework, a copper ore, etc. once every week);
• Can charm most city NPCs (change the dialogue for a very sweet one -- get a random useable item like a mini-firework, a cookie, etc. once every week);
• Can eat raw meat/fish and receive an enhanced bonus (visual effect for coolness while the food is in effect and/or slightly longer time, instead of 30 minutes it could be 40 minutes)
• Can track another player or NPC (click and "mark", then you can follow tracks temporarily)
• etc. (just be creative! It will make cities more lively and allows for fun things to happen spontaneously.)

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I am not against this.

EDIT: I'd rather they all be passive traits though. No reason, just personal preference.

Against. Character choice should be about aesthetics, not game mechanics. We had enough of that nonsense in XI. "What? You're a Galka? You can't be a mage, you idiot!" No. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by darkm0d

Lalafell: Natures Touch -- Soothes an aggressive monster for 15 seconds, 15 min CD.

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Ridiculously bad. If you have a WHM or BLM you can already spam Sleep/Sleepga until the enemy resists it, and this would likely be resisted in the same way....if not, well, still not all that useful considering 15 min CD.

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Mi'qote Hunters Prowess -- (10%) Increased damage against all prey-type enemies.

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Ridiculously OP. Automatically makes Miqo'te the best DDs in the game since other races cannot make up 10% extra damage in any way.

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Hyur Indomitable Spirit -- Reduces damage taken by 10% when HP critical (red).

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Ridiculously OP. Automatically makes Hyur the best tanks in the game.

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Elezen Spiritual Attunement -- Grants 500 MP to a target unit, 30 minute CD.

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Almost useless. MP boon is nice but WHM rarely run out of MP when being played properly and BLM will just run out of MP right after.

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Roegadyn Beast Hunger -- Able to consume raw meat's from prey for temporary buffs.

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So basically they can eat food.

It's a nice idea but incredibly hard to balance. If it's powerful enough to make a difference then it's too powerful to implement. If it's not powerful enough to make a difference, why have it there in the first place (Roegadyn, Lalafell). Especially the ones you have, 3/5 races can hardly make use of their ability and 2/5 have ones that automatically make them 10x better at roles than the other races.

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Originally Posted by AlexNiculaie

Against. Character choice should be about aesthetics, not game mechanics. We had enough of that nonsense in XI. "What? You're a Galka? You can't be a mage, you idiot!" No. Thanks.

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That's largely why my post talks about non-breaking traits and abilities.

Except the abilities given as examples would impact actual job choices. When it comes down to it, any "racial specials" are going to do such. The only way around that would be the abilities only affected items, and even that would wind up leading to some sort of abuse.

I agree mostly, it's not easy to come up with the right fit to things. It is just speculation and idea's to get the community thinking. The 10% dmg for Mi'qote against prey, I'm thinking rats, squirrels and perhaps avians. I don't consider it -that- game breaking, but of course, if say someone decided to parse it, and they killed birds or rats all day long then yes they'd have more damage overall. I will say I judges these against my own feelings and deemed it alright.

The -10% DR for Hyur I would agree may be a little OP, but the way I see it, lets say you have 3000 HP, and go red at like, 750 (I don't know what the % range is for red), at 750 HP, I mean, it will stack up eventually but I would hope it would not be too relied on, though I can see how it might be. I was thinking of giving them a crafting bonus, because in my head humans and industrialization, etc. But I felt that would be RMT/OP heaven.

I ultimately wouldn't want anyone to choose a race for a racial over a race they'd rather play, but I do want it to be a subtle little thing you can have fun with.

Your input is totally appreciated though, perhaps you could come up with some idea's?

Definitely not racial traits lol, what they did on FFXI was fine, people took pride in being Galka Mage, Taru Tank/melee, and so on. They gains slight disadvantages but it made people work harder on their toon so they can outdo the better race.

Against. Race should be aesthetics only imo

Sorry, completely against this. Keep races aesthetics only plz

I too am against. Races should be aesthetic.

Against. The races already have bonuses to them. They are very small and make almost no difference. I want to see people of all races running around not min maxers who only play the race for that one ability that makes the final boss to easy or have to play a specific race if I want to be a mage. Right did this, and other games as well. I never liked it. It makes the choice for character too defined, instead of picking the race because you like how it looks or want to play as that.

I am all for racial bonuses, but only passive minor bonuses. Like social bonuses or something not game breaking.
OP's bonuses are obviously not balances and really favoring some races. That, I'm against.

However, we already had that kind of discussion in the past and it lead to nothing. Yoshi is against it.
I still hope that we can see that happening one way or another. With social bonuses, where's the harm? :D

Have a nice evening!

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

I am all for racial bonuses, but only passive minor bonuses. Like social bonuses or something not game breaking.
OP's bonuses are obviously not balances and really favoring some races. That, I'm against.

However, we already had that kind of discussion in the past and it lead to nothing. Yoshi is against it.
I still hope that we can see that happening one way or another. With social bonuses, where's the harm? :D

Have a nice evening!

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Yeah the examples are not liked by any, which is totally fine. It's just what I came up with on the fly. I'd rather people actually try to give idea's of non-game changing passives or whatnot instead of blatantly rejecting the idea, but, what can you do.

I´m againts bonuses and I propose specific races related events in the main storyline, like lalafells going trought a tiny hole in the second scenario quest while hyur convice the guard to let him in or the Mi´qote use their agility to reach an open window ect, being short but differents and fun paths to the end of the quest, with fights that are suited for 1-2 players and fun puzzles to solve where you can gain bonus exp, guil or items if you do it right or in an specific way.

Problem with social bonuses is, what's the point? Unlike paper and dice games, there are no social mechanics, so why even focus on that? That leaves only physical mechanics, which as said previously, are either going to end up game breaking or so weak as to be useless.

I'm for it, every MMO I've played had a racial/clan type bonus of some kind.

I propose that Hyuran Midlander males get a bonus to the quality of their emotes. ^(o.o)

Er, wait. o.0 Ours are already the best.

Nevermind me! D:

...but in all seriousness, I would not mind small bonuses for each different race, but I do not know what shape or form those bonuses would take. (O.o )

I'm not against it, i wish they had slightly different stats. Those however are way too powerful. A Hyur would always be the best tank.

Miqo'te - 5% discount from shop npc because they are sexy (use /charming on npc for this) ^^

I'm all for it, provided they can balance it properly and not make certain race/job combos absolutely necessary over something else. It could make the races a bit more unique without affecting desirability.

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Originally Posted by AlexNiculaie

Against. Character choice should be about aesthetics, not game mechanics. We had enough of that nonsense in XI. "What? You're a Galka? You can't be a mage, you idiot!" No. Thanks.

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Did you ever actually play XI? Race has a minimal impact at best. Nobody cared if a taru was a tank or a galka was a mage. Obviously certain race/job combos worked better together, but not enough to ever actually matter.

Not to mention in FFXI racial bonuses mainly went to:

- Mithra could eat raw sea food.
- Galka could eat raw meats.

That's so minor that being against it is really just disagreeing with an idea for no reason -- The stat differences in FFXI only mattered early levels, end game levels everyone was boosted through gear progression and buffs, not because you have 5-7 int higher than another race, which is almost nothing end-game.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/23856677.jpg

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Originally Posted by AlexNiculaie

Against. Character choice should be about aesthetics, not game mechanics. We had enough of that nonsense in XI. "What? You're a Galka? You can't be a mage, you idiot!" No. Thanks.

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This here. A big part of why a lot of people picked Mithras in FFXI was due to their insanely high DEX rating and this would be the most common race used for melee characters. Character choice should be purely on how you want your character to look and not some ability bonus.

No thanks.

As someone else said, it sounds fun in theory but the thing is you either make the traits really good (and thus everyone is forced to pick the race that is ideal for their favorite job/class) or you make them weak to the point where there's no point in having them.

We already had race difference for food preference (remember that?) and they took it out of the game because it really didn't make any sense (although I kind of liked the idea of it).

I'm against racial bonuses. It just forces people to have to play the jobs their race is "best" at or deal with mmo players telling you your gimp for picking the wrong race and job combination. People should be able to have fun and play what they want without having min/maxing forced on them.

We can say that an extra 7 points means nothing but anyone who has been around the MMO block, especially XI, knows how it actually goes down. In the eyes of player communities, if you aren't the absolute best, then you're crap. Even if it is only a couple points. Nature of the beast.

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Did you ever actually play XI? Race has a minimal impact at best. Nobody cared if a taru was a tank or a galka was a mage. Obviously certain race/job combos worked better together, but not enough to ever actually matter.

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Actually, I did, and still do, kthnks. Whether or not the effects were enough to matter, people acted like it did. And I call BS on the claim that no one cared. I have witnessed many times people being made fun of/excluded for their race/job combination. I never did, because I understood how minimal those differences really were, but claiming that it wasn't a problem in the community is an outright falsehood.

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Originally Posted by darkm0d

Yeah the examples are not liked by any, which is totally fine. It's just what I came up with on the fly. I'd rather people actually try to give idea's of non-game changing passives or whatnot instead of blatantly rejecting the idea, but, what can you do.

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• Can shout twice as far (everyone can hear it from twice the distance);
• Can hear shouts from twice as far (you can hear anyone's shout from twice the distance);
• Can jump 25% higher;
• Can turn anonymous temporarily (random name and appearance change -- same race, same gender though);
• Can intimidate most city NPCs (make them shake in fear when you are close to them -- can force the NPC to give away a cheap random item, like a mini-firework, a copper ore, etc. once every week);
• Can charm most city NPCs (change the dialogue for a very sweet one -- get a random useable item like a mini-firework, a cookie, etc. once every week);
• Can eat raw meat/fish and receive an enhanced bonus (visual effect for coolness while the food is in effect and/or slightly longer time, instead of 30 minutes it could be 40 minutes)
• Can track another player or NPC (click and "mark", then you can follow tracks temporarily)
• etc. (just be creative! It will make cities more lively and allows for fun things to happen spontaneously.)

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

Did you ever actually play XI? Race has a minimal impact at best. Nobody cared if a taru was a tank or a galka was a mage. Obviously certain race/job combos worked better together, but not enough to ever actually matter.

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HP/MP pools would like word with you.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

HP/MP pools would like word with you.

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And yet Tarus were the best PLDs.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

And yet Tarus were the best PLDs.

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Exactly, because of their huge MP pool so they could self heal more and keep hate. Kind of proves his point, no?

I prefer having passive traits that are not a game breaker, about stats i would prefer having little differences so you can choose the race and type of your liking without worrying about the stats on the jobs you prefer playing.

I am galka and still all for it. I miss the racial bonuses and took pride in maging well in xi with an mp gimp. Why have different races if they arent going to be different? I thought that by making 2 types of each race with the clans solved the problem of what to do if you wanted to be a Galka mage or a Lala tank. Just have one clan spec more for melee and one for mages. Problem solved.

i'm not for or against it. the only thing i am against is adding bonuses later on in the game where the class you hae been using for over 2 years becomes less good because of them. i just don't like the idea that we play for 2 years and then all of a sudden youe lala tank becomes weaker than another tank with less experience or gear.

if he adds it to where early in the game this race is better at this job then i'm fine with it as long as by the time you reach cap you are on par with every other race.

I have thought long and hard on this subject, dating back to when the game was first released and I say yes, however I believe RSA should be limited to flavor and not strength. The following is just an example.

HYUR:
Active: Quick-Learner; increases exp bonus by 10% for 10 mins. Only when not in a party (CD 60 mins)
Passive: Metabolism; extends food timers by 10 minutes (Only works with food)

MIQOTE:
Active: One with Chocobo; Increase run speed on chocobo for 10mins (60min CD)
Passive: Gem Finder; increase shard drop rate by 5%

LALAFELL:
Active: Bravery; Regen/Refresh effect 1min only when not in a party. (CD 60mins)
Passive: Minimal Threat; Smaller threat radius

ROEGADYN:
Active: Treasure Hunter; monsters drop 5% more gil for 10 mins (60min CD)
Passive: Battle-forged; reduce durability damage by 5%

ELEZEN:
Active: Tunnel vision; Stops aggroed monster from linking with others, 10 mins (60min CD)
Passive: Born to Travel, +1 Anima Regen per tick (5 instead of 4)

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Originally Posted by AlexNiculaie

Against. Character choice should be about aesthetics, not game mechanics. We had enough of that nonsense in XI. "What? You're a Galka? You can't be a mage, you idiot!" No. Thanks.

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He's not talking about detriments though. I'd be happy with a small bonus that only gives slight advantage, like a 5% increase trait or something. But nothing more than that.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

And yet Tarus were the best PLDs.

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WTF no they was not Hum/elf was the best pld's by far who the hell was healing their self a lot when you was blink tanking, mp meant nothing the more hp the better.

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Originally Posted by Firon

WTF no they was not Hum/elf was the best pld's by far who the hell was healing their self a lot when you was blink tanking, mp meant nothing the more hp the better.

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If you are blink tanking then why do you need more HP? You should never be getting hit. /facepalm

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Originally Posted by Rubieus

If you are blink tanking then why do you need more HP? You should never be getting hit. /facepalm

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Cause some attacks ignore shadows <.<. AoE spells would like to have a word with you.

This isn't changing, but I'm very much against it outside of fun abilities.

Tangent:

All these threads about changes to 2.0 when we're literally a month [give or take weeks] away from internal testing won't change a thing. I don't understand why they're littering the entire forum.