best stats for a paladin

Job says Str/Mnd but honestly vit and dex look more appealing for mitigation then str which just gives more dmg.

What is the current stat point allotment most paladins go with?

From testing that has been done, staking VIT at 50 has almost zero noticeable effect. DEX increases shield block rate, but again the rate is so inconsequential, you may as well not even waste the points in it.

STR increases your WS damage and by extension, your enmity when using The Fast/Flat Blade combo.

MND is probably the single most important stat to put your points into.

EDIT: Edited for some mistaken info.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

From testing that has been done, staking VIT at 50 has almost zero noticeable effect. DEX increases shield block rate, but again the rate is so inconsequential, you may as well not even waste the points in it.

STR increases your WS damage and by extension, your enmity when using The Fast/Flat Blade combo.

MND increases your magic defense, as well as your damage. MND is probably the single most important stat to put your points into.

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MND - 4:1 Healing Magic Potency, Increases Flat Blade/Spirits Within Combo Multipliers (Capped ~240 @ Lvl 50) Largest gains to Auto-Attack up to cap, increases Weapon Skill Damage

STR - 3:2 Attack, Gives the largest increase to WS Damage.

DEX - 3:2 Accuracy, Increases Block Rate (which against anything over Dlvl is horrible) PLD least useful stat

VIT gives 1:1 HP, 1:1 into Block @ 0.1%, 3:2 Def/MDef, 4:1 Enhancment Magic Potency

Enmity+ 1:1 @ 0.1% increases Enmity Generated by all Actions. (10 Enmity = 1%)


Edited for new readers, and new testing completed. Post 1.23 pre 2.0

MND does not give MP. (That's PIE.) But I agree with everything else. Cap MND because it's easy to do so then add STR to boost damage/enmity.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

MND increases your magic defense, as well as your damage. MND is probably the single most important stat to put your points into.

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I don't have any insight for what stats are good for GLA/PLD, I just wanted to come in here and say that the bolded section of the quote is completely false.

Oh, and here's this nugget of info since no one mentioned it:
In patch 1.21, they tied MND to the enmity+ combo bonus for Flat Blade. Link to patch notes

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Gladiator : Flat Blade : Combo bonus now affected by player MND rating.

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MND provides no extension for magic defense. VIT does affect M.Def somewhat but only by extension because it effects overall damage taken not Magic damage specifically. Outside of that the only way to combat magic damage is either Magic Evasion, CONJ/WHM's Protect, or straight elemental resistance, save for Protect it's hard to stack up a worthwhile amount that would show great returns.

Don't waste points on VIT and DEX. PLDs have high damage mitigation to start with, and neither VIT nor DEX will add damage, while STR and MND both do and result in more enmity. Your job is to get and keep hate not dodge attacks, as appealing as that sounds at first.

Actually your job is to do both.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

Actually your job is to do both.

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Where the attack will kill you, yes, move out of the way. Because if you're dead, you're not holding hate. No amount of stats linked to evasion will guarantee you will not die from getting hit by 100 tonze for example. Therefore, it's a waste to stack stuff like that, especially if you could add some stat in it's place that will help you hold hate.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

I don't have any insight for what stats are good for GLA/PLD, I just wanted to come in here and say that the bolded section of the quote is completely false.

Oh, and here's this nugget of info since no one mentioned it:
In patch 1.21, they tied MND to the enmity+ combo bonus for Flat Blade. Link to patch notes

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It would be interesting to know at what point MND actually effects the Combo Multi.

@ Lvl 50 I tested it from 240 to 320 and at 240 MND it is capped for both Spirits Within (1.5x bonus) and Flat Blade (4.5x Bonus)

Don't really want to make a new character to test it @ lvl 26, to see how low the Multi starts

/sigh vit , other then damage mitigation (wich IS noticable) also gives enhancement magic potiency, wich increases how much damage your Stone skin can take, how much the regen ,from devine veil, gives, and im 90% sure increases buff rate on rampart. Anyone who would stack STR over VIT can be classified as an offensive tank, wich is not a bad thing, just means they will get hit harder then one who stacks vit.

Mind is more effective the "enmity" on pld for keeping hate, sure add enmity where possable but Its not imposable to hold hate with 50ish enmity, just saying mind is very usefull, mainly for enmity control. Block rate IS important. Yes , devine veil dose give a 100 percent block rate for 20 seconds, with a 60 cool down, wich means if you can raise your block rate high enough you can acheive 80% ish block rate through the entire fight. this would just add to damage mitigation. High block number is important , BUT , it usually requires equiping a shield in wich you can not stack materia, and is only justified by the rate in wich you block, having high block is worthless otherwise.

And I probably stan alone on this, but , do not neglect defense. easy way to test how usefull it is , add plate gear with less def and do turtle back, then add max def that you can and test again, do it over and over, do not look at overall damage taken as that has too many variables , look at avg damage taken. Def drops avg damage taken and overall damage taken alot in a boss fight, its just less noticable as , unlike magic attacks, dont hit very hard, but they hit at a much higher frequency then magic attacks. Also, most magic attacks do give away proc as they have a action or "charge time" in wich you can use to avoid magic attacks.

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

And I probably stan alone on this, but , do not neglect defense. easy way to test how usefull it is , add plate gear with less def and do turtle back, then add max def that you can and test again, do it over and over, do not look at overall damage taken as that has too many variables , look at avg damage taken. Def drops avg damage taken and overall damage taken alot in a boss fight, its just less noticable as , unlike magic attacks, dont hit very hard, but they hit at a much higher frequency then magic attacks. Also, most magic attacks do give away proc as they have a action or "charge time" in wich you can use to avoid magic attacks.

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I'm definately there with you. I just don't have any really usefull melds for PLD with DEF yet. If you go for DEF though, make sure to use a +1 Cuirass, that extra 9 base def is a pretty damn good start. It's like having an extra tier II DEF materia.

While I'm generally against Ace on his VIT stance, I do agree with him that a little DEF can go a long ways. And you don't have to go full turtle tank style to get a decent DEF rating. Start by getting HQ of all your gear. That alone can add anywhere from 1-10 def per piece. I also rock a double def meld on my kite shield+1. That coupled with a full set of militia gear gives me rough 700 def rating. The militia setup also puts me at a decent VIT rating (I call 270 decent) for those fights like myrmidion princess, a capped MND, and puts me at 4k HP. I'm free to stack STR rings. With this setup, all I have to do is swap in a piece or two if I want to go dd tank or turtle or hp/enm depending on what the situation calls for.

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Originally Posted by Sounsyy

While I'm generally against Ace on his VIT stance, I do agree with him that a little DEF can go a long ways. And you don't have to go full turtle tank style to get a decent DEF rating. Start by getting HQ of all your gear. That alone can add anywhere from 1-10 def per piece. I also rock a double def meld on my kite shield+1. That coupled with a full set of militia gear gives me rough 700 def rating. The militia setup also puts me at a decent VIT rating (I call 270 decent) for those fights like myrmidion princess, a capped MND, and puts me at 4k HP. I'm free to stack STR rings. With this setup, all I have to do is swap in a piece or two if I want to go dd tank or turtle or hp/enm depending on what the situation calls for.

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I have my doubts about VIT on PLD, sure it's usefull for stoneskin, but I don't even have stoneskin on my bar as PLD. it takes too long to cast. Personally, I'm aiming for 4k+ hp on my PLD via stacking DEF and HP where it doesn't interfere with Enmity, STR or MND. Currently, I've achieved that by using the militia cuirass, but I'm collecting mats for an hq cobalt one with plenty of def and hp.

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

Yes , devine veil dose give a 100 percent block rate for 20 seconds, with a 60 cool down, wich means if you can raise your block rate high enough you can acheive 80% ish block rate through the entire fight. this would just add to damage mitigation. High block number is important , BUT , it usually requires equiping a shield in wich you can not stack materia, and is only justified by the rate in wich you block, having high block is worthless otherwise.

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Just remember like the "Parry" stat the "Block" stat caps at the 20% mark the rest of your block rate comes strictly from DEX which I believe was 1% Block for every 10 DEX.

While were on the subject of defense, if your poor and happen to be in the Lominsan Grand Company I highly advise you invest in a Lominsan Officer's Overcoat. It by far is the best poor man's tank gear providing an awesome +10 MND, DEX, VIT, and STR and with Sanction gives you a solid +70 DEF. Even subtracting the difference from the sanction bonus to make up for the coats slightly lower defense the remainder is still the equivalent of a Triple melded TIV Defense Cobalt Plate.

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

how much the regen ,from devine veil, gives, and im 90% sure increases buff rate on rampart.

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That's wrong. The only thing that buffs Divine Regen is Gallant Cuisses which are worthless, and nothing helps rampart, it's always 105.

From some testing after the latest paladin buffs, 2 vit gives 1 block power now, and 1 block power is around .1% mitigated on blocks, capping at 75% total (from floor based on dLVL, shield block + gear block, and VIT divided by 2.)

VIT and Defense are great but it just depends on what fight you are going into, and in the end it boils down to wearing Heavy Darklight anyway.

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

High block number is important , BUT , it usually requires equiping a shield in wich you can not stack materia, and is only justified by the rate in wich you block, having high block is worthless otherwise.

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Yay holy shield :( Block rate is regulated through abilities mainly so power/vit is a better stat to have than rate/dex.

MND also increase Auto attack damage according to the patch notes. MND and STR add to your damage. dmg also adds to the hate that you produce. Also killing things quicker is a good defense. I keep MND maxed where I can, and then Focus on STR. I mix in a little VIT here and there. I have turned out Very tanky, deal decent damage, and I rarely ever lose hate. Only time I have is when I get stunned for a long time and BLM goes crazy.

I hate fire sometimes, "hey look FIRE" great voke, ages boon, war drum "Cure you BLM!" *Runs after BLM trying to use cover.*

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I don't even have stoneskin on my bar as PLD. it takes too long to cast.

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Exactly. The only place I have VIT on my paladin is from Militia gear. It's just not worth it when you need to buff STR, ACC, ENM, HP, and MND.

Stoneskin is the most efficient spell you can cast on PLD. To say it's not on your bar because it takes too long to cast is pretty ridiculous. You can block while casting and between Aegis Boon (guaranteed block), Divine Veil (guaranteed blocks for 20s), and Outmanuever (not so much I guess), casting Stoneskin is never an issue. It's 112 MP to negate over 800 damage. Sure it doesn't generate enmity, but it is a staple Paladin spell.

Honestly HP for SW, ACC, and enmity are the only very important stats for Paladin in the longhaul. It boils down to who you play with and how good your party is.

We get 5 abilities from other classes, I deemed these more important than stoneskin:

protect
raise
sacred prism
cure
provoke

I usually roll with two WHMs and a BRD who take turns casting stoneskin, therefore, I don't need to. It's not like I don't have it up, I just don't cast it on myself. in the time it takes to cast I could be doing something that will build enmity instead.

you will never need to cast protect on yourself in a party. if you are finding that you do, something is wrong.

These three are always on my bar: Stoneskin, Provoke, Cure

These are the situations I use other stuff:
- Sacred Prism: When I can aoe cure/stoneskin others, like in Ifrit or Moogle (I guess, haven't done that in forever)
- Bloodbath: When I am purely tanking 1 mob and I can get mileage out of this with SW/Goring Blade.
- Raise: almost never have this equipped except when we are working on getting strategies down. Once something is on 'farm status', this spell becomes a wasted slot to equip. You might as well use expectorant/tonic since you can use those in battle.

Seriously though, drop Protect. Swap SP/BB/Raise as needed :)

You take protect and not stoneskin lol

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

you will never need to cast protect on yourself in a party. if you are finding that you do, something is wrong.

These three are always on my bar: Stoneskin, Provoke, Cure

These are the situations I use other stuff:
- Sacred Prism: When I can aoe cure/stoneskin others, like in Ifrit or Moogle (I guess, haven't done that in forever)
- Bloodbath: When I am purely tanking 1 mob and I can get mileage out of this with SW/Goring Blade.
- Raise: almost never have this equipped except when we are working on getting strategies down. Once something is on 'farm status', this spell becomes a wasted slot to equip. You might as well use expectorant/tonic since you can use those in battle.

Seriously though, drop Protect. Swap SP/BB/Raise as needed :)

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I have cast protect during skirmish, but that's about the only time I've needed it in a group. I have protect on there for soloing not party play, but I've never felt that the lack of SS has hurt me. With three other people in the party (typically) that can cast it, I haven't needed to myself.

Before I swap anything, do you guys know if protect is affected by VIT? I was under the impression that it is, but haven't seen testing to say for sure one way or the other.

I believe so, since it is Enhancing Magic. But WHM have enhanced Protect trait so you don't want to cast it, ever. Why take a spell that reduces damage by maybe 10% over 5mins, which three of your other party members can cast, when you could instead equip a spell that will reduce 800 damage on you that you can cast every 30s? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Putting yourself in the Stoneskin rotation is very important to party structure. If you're always running with 2 WHM and a BRD, then I think you're probably running with too much support. I can't think of a single ideal battle setup where you would need a PLD WHMx2 and BRD. Drop a WHM or drop the BRD and use Cover on a WHM for MP regen. That frees up a spot for another DPS. This thread isn't really about that, but it deserved to be highlighted at this point..

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I have cast protect during skirmish, but that's about the only time I've needed it in a group. I have protect on there for soloing not party play, but I've never felt that the lack of SS has hurt me. With three other people in the party (typically) that can cast it, I haven't needed to myself.

Before I swap anything, do you guys know if protect is affected by VIT? I was under the impression that it is, but haven't seen testing to say for sure one way or the other.

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It is, but its important to remember that only whm/cnj get the buff that add "shell" effect with protect, hense why its important to get that from your whm, stone skin is the only buff that you can do at the same lvl as or close to that of your whm, whm also gets a trait that makes their stone skin stronger.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

I believe so, since it is Enhancing Magic. But WHM have enhanced Protect trait so you don't want to cast it, ever. Why take a spell that reduces damage by maybe 10% over 5mins, which three of your other party members can cast, when you could instead equip a spell that will reduce 800 damage on you that you can cast every 30s? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Putting yourself in the Stoneskin rotation is very important to party structure. If you're always running with 2 WHM and a BRD, then I think you're probably running with too much support. I can't think of a single ideal battle setup where you would need a PLD WHMx2 and BRD. Drop a WHM or drop the BRD and use Cover on a WHM for MP regen. That frees up a spot for another DPS. This thread isn't really about that, but it deserved to be highlighted at this point..

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I don't use the AF chest piece, therefore no MP regen on cover. To be honest the more I think about it, I'm not sure why I chose protect over stoneskin, but like i said, I haven't really missed it.

The BRD is more to support the BLMs. With no BRD, BLMs can run out of mp with a quickness. The party setup we usually use works for most content, there's no reason to change what works. We could argue the pros and cons of our preferred party setups all day and not get anywhere. But as you say, this isn't the thread for that.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

I believe so, since it is Enhancing Magic. But WHM have enhanced Protect trait so you don't want to cast it, ever. Why take a spell that reduces damage by maybe 10% over 5mins, which three of your other party members can cast, when you could instead equip a spell that will reduce 800 damage on you that you can cast every 30s? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Putting yourself in the Stoneskin rotation is very important to party structure. If you're always running with 2 WHM and a BRD, then I think you're probably running with too much support. I can't think of a single ideal battle setup where you would need a PLD WHMx2 and BRD. Drop a WHM or drop the BRD and use Cover on a WHM for MP regen. That frees up a spot for another DPS. This thread isn't really about that, but it deserved to be highlighted at this point..

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on turtle back my group will run with a brd and two whm , rest are blm/thm dd, brd is to keep the blm mp up, and two whm are not needed to keep me alive but they rotate debuffs and dots on the bosses wich is super helpfull with golem, gravity helps when kiting golem. lets the party members get far enough out of his range where i can cast holy succor on them, it turn golem on me instantly 90% of the time, after that Its all about rebuilding that enmity base and cross fingers he dosent heel kick you lol

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

It is, but its important to remember that only whm/cnj get the buff that add "shell" effect with protect, hense why its important to get that from your whm, stone skin is the only buff that you can do at the same lvl as or close to that of your whm, whm also gets a trait that makes their stone skin stronger.

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seems like a good enough reason to swap out my skills. thanks.

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

on turtle back my group will run with a brd and two whm , rest are blm/thm dd, brd is to keep the blm mp up, and two whm are not needed to keep me alive but they rotate debuffs and dots on the bosses wich is super helpfull with golem, gravity helps when kiting golem. lets the party members get far enough out of his range where i can cast holy succor on them, it turn golem on me instantly 90% of the time, after that Its all about rebuilding that enmity base and cross fingers he dosent heel kick you lol

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Pretty much this. Two WHMs help out on Locke's Lie too when one WHM is usually sleeping because that damn throwing ability the tree has. Basically, we run with two WHMs by default unless one of them feels particularly useless, in which case we use only one.

I know I'm late on this bandwagon but good lord, Molly. Protect? When you "roll with" TWO WHMS? You're starting to turn into Ace.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

I know I'm late on this bandwagon but good lord, Molly. Protect? When you "roll with" TWO WHMS? You're starting to turn into Ace.

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I put protect on my bar for solong, but never removed it. I hadn't missed stoneskin really, because of the aforementioned cast time, it was never in my normal skill rotation before I removed it. The fact that it's not on my bar hasn't broke any party I've been in, you guys are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is.

I equipped Stoneskin to my bar to experiment during Aleport and a few skirmishes and it worked nicely, thanks guys! It'll get added to my tanking rotation.

Edit: Did a 7 man Ughomoro raid for a friend's relic reborn quest. Being able to self SS myself really helped that whole run.

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Originally Posted by Sounsyy

I equipped Stoneskin to my bar to experiment during Aleport and a few skirmishes and it worked nicely, thanks guys! It'll get added to my tanking rotation.

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That's Hamlet, but PLD definately has more of a utility role in there than in normal situations. Frankly I never take Stoneskin off my bar, albeit it's situational there are a few instances being able to Sacred Prism > Stoneskin your DD's can sincerely help keep the damage taken by DD's to a minimum and help the WHM's keep their focus on healing you when you need it most. Plus when you got those big one shot AoE's like 100-Tonze Swing it helps ensure they survive it if they happen to be careless.

agreed, anytime frontline dd is involved PLD offers soo much to the party. and in turn , the party helps support enmity build, landing rampart on 4-5 frontline DDs is massive for enmity controll, aoe heals, being able to do holy succor on someone. Stone skin is just one of many reasons why PLD is a great addition to a mele dd pt.

Probably more important then the buffs is the fact that PLD is never competing with enmity hold through direct DPS, wich is huge. In a party where DPS has high numbers, trying to compete with enmity through DPS is more dificult then it should be, especially considering that DRG is the only mele dd that gets an ability that dumps hate. everything else acumulates. Soo atempting to hold hate against such a set up is not reasonable if your trying to do so through dps. PLD dose not have this issue, as we do not use dps as a main stay for enmity hold. That being said, I always stack enmity and improve dps where possable, as every little bit counts, but I do not make it a priority, stacking mind dose more for pld enmity then the enmity stat.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I put protect on my bar for solong, but never removed it. I hadn't missed stoneskin really, because of the aforementioned cast time, it was never in my normal skill rotation before I removed it. The fact that it's not on my bar hasn't broke any party I've been in, you guys are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is.

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Can I get in on this? Y U no Stoneskin? You may as well take Provoke off your bar ^^ j/k

But yes, Sacred Prism and Stoneskin during Hamlets is awesome. Either have your crafters stand close, or try and get the DoL as they hand in.

Stoneskin will prevent them from dropping their items if they get hit.
Great utility even while tanking the NM"s in Hamlet
Good for all fights, etc etc

definitely stoneskin over protect. you don't even get the full benefit of protect as a paladin.

I like that people are telling Grey how to tank on PLD.

Yeah that's always a good laugh.

Sadly, they do the same in the WAR section.

As if we're supposeed to bow down when anyone (I don't care who) enters a thread. You guys make me laugh.

lol at folks who think they are special for being good at a video game. I don't care how good you are, whether you know exactly how many points in dmg every point in str will do by memory, etc. If you think I'm am (or anyone else for that matter) going to treat you any differently than anyone else, you have another thing coming. Non-equal treatment negates open discourse.

I don't care if you're the president of the united states, or the king of saudi arabia, unless you do something to lose it, you'll get treated with the same amount of respect as anyone else here, nothing more.