Dawntrail relic demiatma in 7.4 almost 7.5

so it's 7.4 almost 7.5.

Why in the heck is the Dawntrain relic first step still an insatiable grind?

you built in the Occult Crescent and want people to do it there. while I understand the drop rates for the demiatma initially were 20% inside OC ant 5% outside on initial launch of the relic, it's freaking patch 7.4 and about to be 7.5 end of the month. the drop rates are abysmal in both ways to do the content. if you truly wanted people to play the OC content, the drop rates would be a lot more than 20%. should be close to 75% or 80% at this point. outside should be somewhere close to 30% at this point.

the one thing Square Enix, Yoshi P, and the entire dev team fails at the most is adjustment for content after it is current. it's like they all have a hard on for insatiable grinds that make absolutely no sense, then they all complain people aren't doing the stuff the delivered. This game has become a game where if you aren't blizting the content when initial;ly release, you aren't getting it done at all and it's absolutely insane the development team has it's head so far up it's ass that it can't even see the problem is one of thier own making and one they could easilly correct yet chose not to do anything about.

bottom line: if you take a break from this game, you aren't getting anything done in the game outside of the MSQ story. This game suffers from a dev team stuck on a high of 14 million+ subs and watching their game decline becuase they can't realize why.

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Originally Posted by drgnmstr44

Why in the heck is the Dawntrain relic first step still an insatiable grind?

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Because Relic steps get nerfed into the next expansion, not in the same one. /thread

The pain is it's RNG. I got most in pretty decent time. Then the Realgar took so long I maxed out fates several days before I got the last TWO. As soon as you clear it, the grind shifts to being rewarding daily roulettes and using tomestones. I have 7 different weapons of the first step. Working on multiples of the second while starting the sand I'm now starting the third.

The ARR and HW Atmas are nowhere near the rates you ask for. Expecting them to jump to 75% isn't a grind at all and won't get you to stick to the content it's attached to. But raising everything by 10% is more than reasonable at this point.

But I don't expect any change until 8.0, when we step out of Dawntrail.

I have alts. This step would not prevent me doing the relics on alts. What prevents me doing it on alts is:

- Needing to grind roulettes which benefit from being dailies.
- Needing things crafted because I don't have the same degree of social contacts on alts.

The steps like demiatma and paste would be easy and quick for me personally. 100 FATEs per zone isn't much if you actually play the game, and pastes are not much different than farming some mogtomes, which most find quick and easy.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I have alts. This step would not prevent me doing the relics on alts. What prevents me doing it on alts is:

- Needing to grind roulettes which benefit from being dailies.
- Needing things crafted because I don't have the same degree of social contacts on alts.

The steps like demiatma and paste would be easy and quick for me personally. 100 FATEs per zone isn't much if you actually play the game, and pastes are not much different than farming some mogtomes, which most find quick and easy.

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For me, easiest way to get pastes was doing deep dungeon pilgrim's traverse. needs about 5-6 runs at the last stage of 600 paste.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I have alts. This step would not prevent me doing the relics on alts. What prevents me doing it on alts is:

- Needing to grind roulettes which benefit from being dailies.
- Needing things crafted because I don't have the same degree of social contacts on alts.

The steps like demiatma and paste would be easy and quick for me personally. 100 FATEs per zone isn't much if you actually play the game, and pastes are not much different than farming some mogtomes, which most find quick and easy.

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The crafted items are extremely cheap nowadays for awhile too and either way the NPC will ask for 400k gil which is not possible to skip too.

Also, yeah, SE only will nerf old content, and DT relic is very current content meant for the break before 8.0. I've gone back and done partial ARR and 1 HW relics so I'm used to them boosting the rates but only many years later for glams.

If you played like 2-3 hrs every day, then there's a high chance it would've been done now since the following steps have much less RNG suffering.

I would say the one exception would be shadowbringers. A lot of the nerfs to those actually happened in the same expansion, albeit at the tail end of it.

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Originally Posted by drgnmstr44

Why in the heck is the Dawntrain relic first step still an insatiable grind?

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In the opposite, the relics are still too easy to get, almost the same than in EW. OC is pointless. I misses the days of Bozja...

Like, don't worry, you'll do that step then it's done, it's just tomestone like EW. Step 2 is done outside OC and can be done quickly too, and step 3 is even worst, the OC reward is probably the least productive, so again, you'll do it outside OC.

They really screwed up the relics. They could have made another fun place like Bozja, where people who like to farm could do it, with duels and fun things to do... But instead we have the worst from ARR for the first step, then a lack of imagination for step 2 and 3, and oh, just do stuff that aren't relics and you'll get all of them easily...

I really hope that the next expansion will be more like ShB and not EW/DT.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I have alts. This step would not prevent me doing the relics on alts. What prevents me doing it on alts is:

- Needing to grind roulettes which benefit from being dailies.
- Needing things crafted because I don't have the same degree of social contacts on alts.

The steps like demiatma and paste would be easy and quick for me personally. 100 FATEs per zone isn't much if you actually play the game, and pastes are not much different than farming some mogtomes, which most find quick and easy.

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100 fates per zone might have been a good measure when zones were instanced to 3 and everyone was doing them. the issue is RNG based at stupid low levels in both places, waiting on fates for worse that CEs, and one of the colors has exactly 1 CE that is spawned by killing mobs.

As for changes: I expect to see changes as we play through like they did with Bozja. Every new step caused the previous step to be slightly easier. 20% drop isn't a lot and after spending 10 full lockouts in OC I only walked away with 5 total of different colors. This isn't a grind. it's gambling. dungeons are a grind. crafting is a grind. waiting for the RNG to be nice and not seeing it is BS

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Originally Posted by AlliciaCapulet

In the opposite, the relics are still too easy to get, almost the same than in EW. OC is pointless. I misses the days of Bozja...

Like, don't worry, you'll do that step then it's done, it's just tomestone like EW. Step 2 is done outside OC and can be done quickly too, and step 3 is even worst, the OC reward is probably the least productive, so again, you'll do it outside OC.

They really screwed up the relics. They could have made another fun place like Bozja, where people who like to farm could do it, with duels and fun things to do... But instead we have the worst from ARR for the first step, then a lack of imagination for step 2 and 3, and oh, just do stuff that aren't relics and you'll get all of them easily...

I really hope that the next expansion will be more like ShB and not EW/DT.

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I actually like the idea of tomestones for follow up weapons. I don't like the idea of using RNG, not boosting it, and trying to pass it off as a grind. it's gambling/gotcha mechanics. not a grind. I would have thought at this point the drop rates would be increased.

Imagine having to do that grind for every weapon you want, because that's what some people demand (apparently that's called "interesting content"). It's not the worst grind, but definitely something to pace out rather than smash out.

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Originally Posted by drgnmstr44

100 fates per zone might have been a good measure when zones were instanced to 3 and everyone was doing them.

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Pretty irrelevant if there are 3 instances or not, and FATEs scale. They don't last that long and in a lot of cases just 1 person being there makes it faster, which they sometimes will be at peak hours.

I still think that how easy it is to grind for the Relic weapons makes them super lame, no matter what they look like.

It was so annoying to get older Relics, but it made it feel so much more rewarding when you finally got them.

The grind isn't normal for the relics in Dawntrail because they wanted to make the first steps as grindy as possible, so then you'd just have to do the Tomestones.

I don't love it. and I'll keep saying it's like a worst of both worlds situation. The worst grind followed by the tome weapons. You get the element that had them do away with relic grinds, followed by the element that made them bring relic grinds back.

This isn't hard. Shadowbringers Relic Grind was perfect. The first step had a lot of grinding, but none of it relied on *daily roulettes*. The further weapons were easier, removing a lot of the RNG of dealing with Bozja. but they were still relic grinds.
I am still doing Shadowbringers relics casually, 5 years later. It's fun for every new weapon I get. As is, I'll be down all the Dawntrail relics before the end of Dawntrail and none of it will be much more an accomplishment than Endwalker.

But the Dawntrail relics could had been perfect. As simple as this:
The same as it is, but without the roulette bonus. The step repeated after doing it once, requiring half the materials.

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Originally Posted by SalamanderIX

This isn't hard. Shadowbringers Relic Grind was perfect.

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No it wasn't. Shadowbringers made it more efficient to farm outside Bozja, causing hardly anyone to do it in Bozja. It being 20% inside Occult is an improvement for sure.

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I am still doing Shadowbringers relics casually, 5 years later. It's fun for every new weapon I get.

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Can't really agree. Having to go back and 50 more CLL and Dalriada and DR wouldn't be fun for me, especially when nobody's doing it anymore.

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The same as it is, but without the roulette bonus. The step repeated after doing it once, requiring half the materials.

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To be fair, we have twice as many jobs as we once had when the game launched. At a certain point, it makes sense to limit how many times the step needs to be repeated because of job bloat.

Personally, I have almost all materials for the Resistance Weapons, I farmed almost everything outside of Bozja and it was pretty easy, most of it done casually through roulettes, the only thing that ties into Bozja at all(and is my bottleneck to finishing them outright) is the Delly Regina runs I need to do for Timeworn Relics, and I personally find the need to do a single raid so many times, with a godforsaken mandatory 10 minute wait time each run, has made these the worst Relics for me, I'd rather do another 90 Zodiac books.

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Originally Posted by Osteichthyes

Imagine having to do that grind for every weapon you want, because that's what some people demand (apparently that's called "interesting content"). It's not the worst grind, but definitely something to pace out rather than smash out.

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That's how the ARR and HW ones were and still are. I'm glad I completed one for each, but nothing in the newer expansions, NOTHING, compares to the absolute slog that is the Zodiac Braves' book step. Personally, that step alone is why I only have one ARR relic.

One issue, too, is that almost everyone got EW relics, and lots of us have multiples. So the data showed that making it tomestone based like that allowed everyone to earn them, despite hours and hours of Hildibrand story being a wall to climb to earn them. (Hildibrand is extremely popular, so that also meant lots of us were doing that stuff anyway.)

The DT relics are an attempt at a happy medium between that old school grind and the ease of EW's relics. Grind for the first one, and then you can purchase the rest.

My issue is how badly the Occult Crescent turned out. I got a few Demiatmas out of there then never went back. Bozja is still miles better even years later with few players in there. I hope the North Horn is much better scaled.


I also wonder how it will feel when the tomestones required drop down to poetics, or whatever equivalent that is for 8.0 and beyond. I know the EW relics turned into my favorite place to dump them, and I know that I'm just going to do the same for the DT ones as soon as we turn it over.

I wish the devs would do more "on the fly adjustments" as content gets older, especially if the current patch cycle trend keeps going where it takes more than a year to get to x.55
This goes for things like tomestone lockout and savage gear lockouts, it isn't all that difficult to remove a cap or remove a limit yet it takes ages to do it because they have a specific mindset of where in patch cycle those caps should be removed regardless of how long it takes.

It's weird and yes it should also affect the relic step because the entire reason for a relic is to be the casuals content to get gear that's on par with Savage weapons, or close to it,
and if people want to remove thelimitations on savage gear earlier, then so should there be removal of certain "limitations" on relics sooner.

This whole idea of "they adjust it next expansion" is a mute discussion point when everyone knows they want these limitations to be lifted sooner.
it doesn't matter that ARR relics are still on the 20% droprates or whatever, what people want is a change in the way the devs start to allow
a more streamlined approach to the grind earlier, not after the next expansion is already out and the content is largely something people will skip doing at that point, because it's irrelevant for so many.

How many people for example go back to do savage raids in Dawntrail after 8.0 is going to be a small % compared to the % of people who would go do it if the limitations would be lowered sooner.
Same aspect also aaffects relics, to this day I have many relics undone simply because I don't feel like doing content that's not "current" or the current content is taking all my free time to even give me a chance to go do the old content.

I think EW gave newer players the expectation that relic weapons should be quick to get. They also look at how easy ARR and HW relics are to farm today, not knowing that back in the day the droprates were 20x worse than they are now and they were not changed until a later expansion. I remember back in ARR spending far more time trying to get those 12 atmas compared to DT's demiatma grind, and this wasn't just a one-time step like DT's, either. I actually found grinding out Paste to be more tedious since I'm not a fan of doing roulettes every day so most of them came from FATEs while I waited for Savage parties to fill.

I kinda miss the Stormblood grind in Eureka, back when mounts were only for max level players and enemies even 1 level higher than you could easily murder you. This was the only way to get the relic, there was no way to farm outside of it. Occult Crescent doesn't really force you to be in there so after the initial patch, the place feels kind of dead.

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Originally Posted by Kirutsuki

I wish the devs would do more "on the fly adjustments" as content gets older, especially if the current patch cycle trend keeps going where it takes more than a year to get to x.55
This goes for things like tomestone lockout and savage gear lockouts, it isn't all that difficult to remove a cap or remove a limit yet it takes ages to do it because they have a specific mindset of where in patch cycle those caps should be removed regardless of how long it takes.

It's weird and yes it should also affect the relic step because the entire reason for a relic is to be the casuals content to get gear that's on par with Savage weapons, or close to it,
and if people want to remove thelimitations on savage gear earlier, then so should there be removal of certain "limitations" on relics sooner.

This whole idea of "they adjust it next expansion" is a mute discussion point when everyone knows they want these limitations to be lifted sooner.
it doesn't matter that ARR relics are still on the 20% droprates or whatever, what people want is a change in the way the devs start to allow
a more streamlined approach to the grind earlier, not after the next expansion is already out and the content is largely something people will skip doing at that point, because it's irrelevant for so many.

How many people for example go back to do savage raids in Dawntrail after 8.0 is going to be a small % compared to the % of people who would go do it if the limitations would be lowered sooner.
Same aspect also aaffects relics, to this day I have many relics undone simply because I don't feel like doing content that's not "current" or the current content is taking all my free time to even give me a chance to go do the old content.

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The only reason I can think of ppl doing old DT savage is for MINE fans, but I'll be waiting until 10.0 so I can go back and glam farm along with the mounts too.

I swear the reason they don't want to change the raids or relic step 1 drop rates because they exist to have ppl sub as long as possible to do the content on the same expansion which makes sense since it's sub based MMO in the first place. Then why add so many time gates? Well, since players burn through content extremely fast vs the time SE can create said new content each patch either way so they have mandatory time gates like for savage and other high-end content too.

I am stuck on the demiatma grind, which is holding me up from the step where I'm motivated to run daily roulettes.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I am stuck on the demiatma grind, which is holding me up from the step where I'm motivated to run daily roulettes.

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So I did this many months ago, but I did most of it inside OC with CEs with a 20% drop rate until I had most of the demiatmas done, and then went outside to the DT zones for Fates for a 15% drop rate the missing ones since I can target them to finish. However, this is all RNG, so it could take you longer or shorter each time

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Originally Posted by CCheshire

The only reason I can think of ppl doing old DT savage is for MINE fans, but I'll be waiting until 10.0 so I can go back and glam farm along with the mounts too.

I swear the reason they don't want to change the raids or relic step 1 drop rates because they exist to have ppl sub as long as possible to do the content on the same expansion which makes sense since it's sub based MMO in the first place. Then why add so many time gates? Well, since players burn through content extremely fast vs the time SE can create said new content each patch either way so they have mandatory time gates like for savage and other high-end content too.

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Yeah, I'm excited to farm EW EX and Savage when 8.0 hits for exactly the same reason.

And you are absolutely correct. It IS to give us a reason to remain subbed and log in more often.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

And you are absolutely correct. It IS to give us a reason to remain subbed and log in more often.

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And they want to give us a reason to remain subbed because we keep requesting a reason to remain subbed.

Literally, when they make something able to be handed out instantly, players complain asking for reasons to remain subbed and that they wish they had a reason to sub. They complained for Field Operations to be made again, and for relics to not just be tomestones. This is literally what many of us asked for, and many of us are happier than what we got with Endwalker.