Crafter and Gatherer Identity

There is a large conversation about Job Identity right now, but two roles are being completely ignored in this discussion: Disciples of the Hand (Crafters) and Disciples of the Land (Gatherers). As it stands, all the crafters and all the gatherers are entirely reskins of one another with no purpose to their seperation apart from making the leveling and gearing process grindier. (Apart from Fisher, Fisher gets to be special.)
This needs to be fixed. Crafters and Gatherers should be allowed to be different from each other. Give them entirely unique abilities and even job gauges, and while we're at it, maybe re-introduce cross-class actions for Disciples of the Hand and Land specifically. In addition, the specialty system needs to be gutted and replaced with something far better: proper DoH/DoL Jobs with unique job stones.
And why have no new Crafters or Gatherers been added since the game's inception? Give us new ones, like a Rancher Disciple of the Land that can harvest from and raise creatures, or an Engineer crafter!
I want crafting and gathering to feel fun again, and hopefully changes like this can do that!

I have a love hate relationship with cross-class on crafters...

They used to do it... But if you wanted to be self sufficient, then you were levelling all crafters anyway, which kind of made it moot... Consumables aside....

I do think they need to do more with quests though... It's absolutely tragic that the only action locked behind quests is Manipulation.

I don't necessarily agree that they need to be different... But DoH/L does need an actual fin system behind it, like Whistle While You Work was. Overall tone though... On DoH/L being ignored though, I completely agree with... And the amount they've lost is absurd..

My main point is that if crafters and gatherers are going to be all the same, why even have the different classes for them at all?
It just feels like something that's there to make the game grindy instead of offering an opportunity for fun gameplay
I would love for them to be different again so that crafting and gathering could feel fresh to me!
I really hope Square does plan to address DoH and DoL in 8.0, though. If they do anything at least fully rework the specialty system, having to wait an entire week just to swap out specialties is absurd and just not fun

Anyone really cares about crafting much?
If anything, most of the players would be in favor of removing these crafting rotations and replacing them with single "just craft it" button.

There's a lot of things I'd do with crafters to make them unique (though I like the current system just fine too). Just off the top of my head:

Alchemists and Culinarians should have parts of their recipes which aren't consumed - catalysts and specific cooking utensils, specifically.

Alchemists should be able to transmute materials. The whole "lead to gold" part of alchemy. They should also be able to stain and colour materials beyond the dye system.

Culinarians should have flexible recipes: If the recipe asks for a tomato, any of Blood Tomato, Dzemael Tomato, Piennolo Tomato, Ruby Tomato, or Ut'ohmu Tomato should work. There's no reason to have a separate recipe for Blood Tomato Salad, Piennolo Tomato Salad or any other Tomato Salad - make it one Tomato Salad recipe, with some flexible parts and some optional parts, and the resulting item's effects will depend on the specific ingredients and their quality.

Crafters who create equipment should be able to upgrade and modify that type of equipment. Raise ILVL, modify bonuses, change from one type to another ("... of Aiming" to "... of Scouting" for example, if both exist) even for uncraftable equipment types.

Goldsmiths should be able to engrave messages into metal items (visible if you zoom in far enough). Leatherworkers should be able to to the same with leather-based items. Weavers should be able to create and use their own patterns. Carpenters should be able to engrave and burn text on wooden items, in particular furniture.

There could be recipes you only get from quests, FATEs, Golden Saucer, PvP, achievements, dungeon and raid drops, society shops after unlocking certain levels, and many more such sources.

Crafters could offer their services on the marketboard (or similar) for any item they crafted at least once at 100% quality without using any buffs. Not the ready-to-use items, but a "bring your own mats and some gil to pay me, the crafting happens automatically" kind of deal.

We have Carpenters, but no Masons (purely for creating housing-related items, which right now are mostly badly situated with the Goldsmiths; not every crafter needs to have PvE utility). We have Fishers, but no Hunters (could get most of the meat, skin and similar drops, gather special minions and mounts, and train new companions).

The quality system could be rolled into the collectible system, with various levels of quality possible, and items of different quality/collectability stackable together.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

Anyone really cares about crafting much?
If anything, most of the players would be in favor of removing these crafting rotations and replacing them with single "just craft it" button.

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Let's not dilute even more of the game for people that can't be bothered, shall we? Imagine how far this game would fall if we started to deviate to this mentality.

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Originally Posted by LanceSummers

My main point is that if crafters and gatherers are going to be all the same, why even have the different classes for them at all?
It just feels like something that's there to make the game grindy instead of offering an opportunity for fun gameplay
I would love for them to be different again so that crafting and gathering could feel fresh to me!
I really hope Square does plan to address DoH and DoL in 8.0, though. If they do anything at least fully rework the specialty system, having to wait an entire week just to swap out specialties is absurd and just not fun

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I think this is a somewhat fair point... But beyond the whole cross-class..., I've never found them all too distinctive to begin with, as they all follow the same progression blueprint, both for levelling and both for end-game, even dating as far back as ARR to be honest.

... Like, if you actually wanted to be a crafter, you were doing them all anyway... But I agree in principle with the 'feeling fresh' sentiment... I'm not doing anything different this expansion what what I did 3 expansions ago.

Didn't Yoshi said something about differentiating doh/dol jobs and rethinking crafting entirely or did I dream it? I know he mentioned that the "crafting macros" design is showing its age and they're trying to think of other things to do with it, but for doh/dol profession identity, I actually can't remember well.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Didn't Yoshi said something about differentiating doh/dol jobs and rethinking crafting entirely or did I dream it? I know he mentioned that the "crafting macros" design is showing its age and they're trying to think of other things to do with it, but for doh/dol profession identity, I actually can't remember well.

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I don't remember anything this distinctive... But I do recall there have been talks about 'crafting macros', but this I do think they already addressed, as it was their rationale for the initial crafting rework... Something to the effect of... They wanted people to try and figure things out for themselves, and to do their own macros, rather than relying on things that other people had created... Hence simplifications.

Honestly though, if this is a case of something I have missed, and something you weren't dreaming, then I don't exactly have high hopes, because we all know how this works out.

I wouldn’t mind a single “craft it” button. Ordinary crafting isn’t bad, but master crafting is pretty annoying to me, and crafting a large number of items is boring af. I became a crafter because I wanted an unlimited supply of food and combat gear (and I hate paying people for it — market board prices are a ripoff), but the actual act of endgame crafting just isn’t fun to me, either manually going through the steps of the minigame or using macros.

Gatherers are fine to me, but I would be open to a rework as long as it doesn’t make the process too onerous.

I wonder, for crafting, if a model like fishing would be a good idea? I’m not a fan of the RNG of fishing, but the thing I do like is you can choose how deeply you want to engage with it. If you just want fish for crafting ingredients, they’re not hard to get, but if you want fish for bragging rights, there is (I hear) a lot more depth and skill expression. How about something similar for crafting, where your basic combat gear is quick and easy (and tbf combat food is already not too awful), but high end glamours and maybe also some higher tier combat gear are harder and require greater mastery?

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Originally Posted by Alicie

Anyone really cares about crafting much?
If anything, most of the players would be in favor of removing these crafting rotations and replacing them with single "just craft it" button.

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I'm down for this, mama needs some housing furniture stat. :D

Easiest way to make Crafting better. Limit Omnicrafting and make it so having 'Soul of the Crafter' is required to craft Master Recipes and make gear from master recipes expert recipes.

That way it takes more than a single individual to make gear, make it harder for bots to churning out sets after sets of gear a few hours after the patch drops, flooding the market. It will also take a modicum of knowledge at the crafting jobs with expert recipes to make gear instead of relying on the Balance discord to post a macro.

Remove Dark Matter, give repair kits to crafting jobs. WVR can make sewing kits for Casting/Healing gear, LTW can make leather patches for Aiming/Scouting/Striking gear, and ARM can make steel plates for Maiming/Fending gear. Of course the kits would also require materials from CRP, ARM, and GSM to make as well.

ALC and CUL isn't allowed to have freebie, gil making pots and food either. Have them require materials from other crafting jobs from the master recipe list (so ALC and CUL can't just craft their own mats unless those jobs are one of their specialists) as well, such as glass bottles from GSM, leather sleeves and cloth filters to make ALC pots. Tinder from CRP, flint from ARM, and plates from BSM for CUL food.

I think in the past the specialisation made more sense since it took also longer to level the classes so that different people leveled different classes first and could help out each other with materials. But nowadays you can level all classes in a new expansion in a matter of hours so there is no need to work together with other people.

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Originally Posted by GraceHorizon

I wouldn’t mind a single “craft it” button. Ordinary crafting isn’t bad, but master crafting is pretty annoying to me, and crafting a large number of items is boring af. I became a crafter because I wanted an unlimited supply of food and combat gear (and I hate paying people for it — market board prices are a ripoff), but the actual act of endgame crafting just isn’t fun to me, either manually going through the steps of the minigame or using macros.

Gatherers are fine to me, but I would be open to a rework as long as it doesn’t make the process too onerous.

I wonder, for crafting, if a model like fishing would be a good idea? I’m not a fan of the RNG of fishing, but the thing I do like is you can choose how deeply you want to engage with it. If you just want fish for crafting ingredients, they’re not hard to get, but if you want fish for bragging rights, there is (I hear) a lot more depth and skill expression. How about something similar for crafting, where your basic combat gear is quick and easy (and tbf combat food is already not too awful), but high end glamours and maybe also some higher tier combat gear are harder and require greater mastery?

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To be fair, there already is a "craft-it" button with quick synthesis to mass-craft items
High Quality items should still require you to interact with the minigame to craft
But I agree that basic crafting should be easier while still finding a way to appeal to casual crafters
Maybe Square could keep the crafting classes while adding identity for them and add a new "Freelancer" crafter with the old abilities for more casual crafters?

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Easiest way to make Crafting better. Limit Omnicrafting and make it so having 'Soul of the Crafter' is required to craft Master Recipes and make gear from master recipes expert recipes.

That way it takes more than a single individual to make gear, make it harder for bots to churning out sets after sets of gear a few hours after the patch drops, flooding the market. It will also take a modicum of knowledge at the crafting jobs with expert recipes to make gear instead of relying on the Balance discord to post a macro.

Remove Dark Matter, give repair kits to crafting jobs. WVR can make sewing kits for Casting/Healing gear, LTW can make leather patches for Aiming/Scouting/Striking gear, and ARM can make steel plates for Maiming/Fending gear. Of course the kits would also require materials from CRP, ARM, and GSM to make as well.

ALC and CUL isn't allowed to have freebie, gil making pots and food either. Have them require materials from other crafting jobs from the master recipe list (so ALC and CUL can't just craft their own mats unless those jobs are one of their specialists) as well, such as glass bottles from GSM, leather sleeves and cloth filters to make ALC pots. Tinder from CRP, flint from ARM, and plates from BSM for CUL food.

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I think adding on to the current specialty system and limiting omnicrafting wouldn't be fun and removes the entire point of the jobs system in the first place
Specialties need to be reworked into proper crafting jobs without any timegates so you can have a job crystal for every crafter and gatherer
I think the main way to make crafting more fun is to give the different crafters more differences and mechanics instead of just restricting the whole system and making it more tedious

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Originally Posted by Alicie

Anyone really cares about crafting much?
If anything, most of the players would be in favor of removing these crafting rotations and replacing them with single "just craft it" button.

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Many people enjoy the crafting system and how it tries to be unique instead of just being 1 button like every other game
Also, a craft-it button already exists, it's called quick synthesis
Quick synthesis could use some tweaks to appeal to casual crafters more but high quality items and endgame crafting should be left with mechanical depth, I don't want to make endgame crafting boring

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Let's not dilute even more of the game for people that can't be bothered, shall we? Imagine how far this game would fall if we started to deviate to this mentality.



I think this is a somewhat fair point... But beyond the whole cross-class..., I've never found them all too distinctive to begin with, as they all follow the same progression blueprint, both for levelling and both for end-game, even dating as far back as ARR to be honest.

... Like, if you actually wanted to be a crafter, you were doing them all anyway... But I agree in principle with the 'feeling fresh' sentiment... I'm not doing anything different this expansion what what I did 3 expansions ago.

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I want them to be distinct so the different crafting classes feel like they have a point instead of the different classes existing just for the sake of grind
Right now they truly aren't distinct, every one plays the exact same

And yes I agree we shouldn't dilute the game. While I'm open to options for casual crafting to an extent, I don't want to oversimplify anything to do with endgame crafting to the point it becomes a braindead activity. Plenty of people enjoy the depth XIV's crafting system has to any other game with crafting in it, I don't want to remove it in favor of oversimplification

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Originally Posted by LanceSummers

To be fair, there already is a "craft-it" button with quick synthesis to mass-craft items
High Quality items should still require you to interact with the minigame to craft
But I agree that basic crafting should be easier while still finding a way to appeal to casual crafters
Maybe Square could keep the crafting classes while adding identity for them and add a new "Freelancer" crafter with the old abilities for more casual crafters?

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I make liberal use of quick synthesis for NQ, but no, I want easier crafting of HQ items. It’s no fun to spend an hour and a half on the crafting minigame just to get an okay-but-not-great combat gearset. I do it in order to not be beholden to the market board, but it’s always been at the edge of “is this really worth my time?” If we want crafting to be interesting and worthwhile, reduce the effort for the basic equipment (for example the il770 stuff in the current patch) and give us something fancier and a little better for people who are really into crafting for its own sake (say il775, or il780 with a time bottleneck).

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Originally Posted by GraceHorizon

I make liberal use of quick synthesis for NQ, but no, I want easier crafting of HQ items. It’s no fun to spend an hour and a half on the crafting minigame just to get an okay-but-not-great combat gearset. I do it in order to not be beholden to the market board, but it’s always been at the edge of “is this really worth my time?” If we want crafting to be interesting and worthwhile, reduce the effort for the basic equipment (for example the il770 stuff in the current patch) and give us something fancier and a little better for people who are really into crafting for its own sake (say il775, or il780 with a time bottleneck).

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The most I'd agree with reducing crafting grind is to make levelling recipes craftable as HQ with quick synthesis. Anything with master recipes should stay as it is in terms of grind. The only aspect I'd remove of master recipes is the tome mats, I really just want to be able to craft instead of having to sidetrack and get tomes for my crafted gear. Making the grind of master recipes almost nonexistent would drastically reduce their worth.
But generally: if you don't like crafting, you should really just be asking for more ways to gear. I don't want crafting to be ruined just because people who don't like it want to be able to craft without interacting with the crafting system.

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Originally Posted by LanceSummers

The most I'd agree with reducing crafting grind is to make levelling recipes craftable as HQ with quick synthesis. Anything with master recipes should stay as it is in terms of grind. The only aspect I'd remove of master recipes is the tome mats, I really just want to be able to craft instead of having to sidetrack and get tomes for my crafted gear. Making the grind of master recipes almost nonexistent would drastically reduce their worth.
But generally: if you don't like crafting, you should really just be asking for more ways to gear. I don't want crafting to be ruined just because people who don't like it want to be able to craft without interacting with the crafting system.

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I would love for there to be other ways to gear, and I was dismayed that the il770 stuff from the final tier of the Arcadion mostly just didn’t have as good substats as the crafted gear at the same ilvl. Time-limited and also not as good? Why? I got the two little pieces I wanted in the first week, and didn’t have any use for normal raid gear tokens ever again.

But also, the crafting minigame is tiresome to me. Once I’ve made a few HQ fancy aluminum ingots, what purpose does it serve to step through the process to make dozens more? It’s nothing but busywork. If you want to be able to play the role of a tippy-top crafter, the right way is to add more expert recipes for more prestigious glamour or furniture items, or even allow ultra-high-end crafted combat gear on par with tomestone stuff. Let the WoL be a master crafter like Gerolt!

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Originally Posted by Alicie

Anyone really cares about crafting much?
If anything, most players would probably prefer removing crafting rotations entirely and replacing them with a single “just craft it” button.

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Nope.

In most MMOs, crafting and gathering are important parts of the economy. They can also be genuinely fun systems to engage with. In FFXIV, crafting probably peaked during Heavensward. Since then, it has gradually become too easy and too predictable.

I understand that some players simply don’t enjoy crafting. For those players, I wouldn’t mind having a “just craft it” button for normal-quality items.

However, when it comes to HQ crafting, I really wish the system would move away from its current level of predictability. Right now, macros can guarantee a 100% HQ result, and on top of that there are bots, solvers, and plugins that can automate crafting or gathering entirely. When anyone can produce HQ items without even thinking about it, it ends up hurting the economy.

Personally, I would prefer a crafting system where players actually need to adapt to item conditions and make decisions during the process, rather than relying on fully predictable macros. If that means only a small percentage of players can reliably craft HQ items, that’s not necessarily a problem. People could choose to use normal-quality gear and food, learn the crafting system properly, or simply buy HQ items from players who enjoy crafting.

That kind of system would give real value back to crafting.

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Originally Posted by LanceSummers

I think adding on to the current specialty system and limiting omnicrafting wouldn't be fun and removes the entire point of the jobs system in the first place
Specialties need to be reworked into proper crafting jobs without any timegates so you can have a job crystal for every crafter and gatherer
I think the main way to make crafting more fun is to give the different crafters more differences and mechanics instead of just restricting the whole system and making it more tedious

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Which becomes completely pointless as soon as the stat breakpoints are figured out and macros are set up.

The whole reason why crafting is boring is because it has become too easy. Everyone and their dog can be omnicraft and produce the best gear without having to work with other crafters.

Turning every job into a Specialist contradicts itself. When every job is a specialist, no job is. That is the whole reason why it is limited in the first place. That limitation needs to be expanded so players are required to begin trading goods with each other to produce gear and items.

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Originally Posted by AlliciaCapulet

Nope.

In most MMOs, crafting and gathering are important parts of the economy. They can also be genuinely fun systems to engage with. In FFXIV, crafting probably peaked during Heavensward. Since then, it has gradually become too easy and too predictable.

I understand that some players simply don’t enjoy crafting. For those players, I wouldn’t mind having a “just craft it” button for normal-quality items.

However, when it comes to HQ crafting, I really wish the system would move away from its current level of predictability. Right now, macros can guarantee a 100% HQ result, and on top of that there are bots, solvers, and plugins that can automate crafting or gathering entirely. When anyone can produce HQ items without even thinking about it, it ends up hurting the economy.

Personally, I would prefer a crafting system where players actually need to adapt to item conditions and make decisions during the process, rather than relying on fully predictable macros. If that means only a small percentage of players can reliably craft HQ items, that’s not necessarily a problem. People could choose to use normal-quality gear and food, learn the crafting system properly, or simply buy HQ items from players who enjoy crafting.

That kind of system would give real value back to crafting.

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From what I have gathered, it seems that crafting suffers a major issue of not having proper islands of content to appeal to different kinds of crafters.

Crafting needs to be divided into content islands for casual, midcore and hardcore crafters. I'm sure there are many ways to do this so feel free to suggest some while I take some time to think

TLDR; crafting needs to be divided into Crafting (Normal), Crafting (Advanced), and Crafting (Savage)

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Which becomes completely pointless as soon as the stat breakpoints are figured out and macros are set up.

The whole reason why crafting is boring is because it has become too easy. Everyone and their dog can be omnicraft and produce the best gear without having to work with other crafters.

Turning every job into a Specialist contradicts itself. When every job is a specialist, no job is. That is the whole reason why it is limited in the first place. That limitation needs to be expanded so players are required to begin trading goods with each other to produce gear and items.

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I get what you're saying, but imo the whole issue with the specialist system is that the crafters are all exactly the same, so there's not really a favorite you can pick that feels different like for a combat job, you just pick whatever one can craft the stuff is best for your favorite combat jobs

Another issue is that specialist is almost entirely used for crafting untradeable items, like crafting relics... Not really much of a point in having it if its only purpose is to timelock crafts you can only make use of yourself

The system would need an entire rework inside and out, and how the system itself works as well as everything around it works would need to be reconsidered

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Originally Posted by LanceSummers

From what I have gathered, it seems that crafting suffers a major issue of not having proper islands of content to appeal to different kinds of crafters.

Crafting needs to be divided into content islands for casual, midcore and hardcore crafters. I'm sure there are many ways to do this so feel free to suggest some while I take some time to think

TLDR; crafting needs to be divided into Crafting (Normal), Crafting (Advanced), and Crafting (Savage)

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At least in terms of difficulty it sorta is divided into tiers. Non-master crafts (that is, leveling recipes) are Normal, master foods and potions are Advanced, master combat gear is a bit higher (EX I guess?), and expert recipes are Savage. You could even argue that glamour items are an easier difficulty because there’s no need to get HQ.

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Originally Posted by GraceHorizon

At least in terms of difficulty it sorta is divided into tiers. Non-master crafts (that is, leveling recipes) are Normal, master foods and potions are Advanced, master combat gear is a bit higher (EX I guess?), and expert recipes are Savage. You could even argue that glamour items are an easier difficulty because there’s no need to get HQ.

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Yes, but if you want casual crafting to be made easier as you said, then this system would have to be reworked
I also think that Square Enix really doesn't do as much with Expert Recipes as they could, while their implementation is fine as is I just want there to be more content centered around Expert Recipes that isn't only furniture or relics
Like, we have zero expert recipe gear recipes in the game... Why?

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Originally Posted by AlliciaCapulet

Nope.

In most MMOs, crafting and gathering are important parts of the economy. They can also be genuinely fun systems to engage with. In FFXIV, crafting probably peaked during Heavensward. Since then, it has gradually become too easy and too predictable.

I understand that some players simply don’t enjoy crafting. For those players, I wouldn’t mind having a “just craft it” button for normal-quality items.

However, when it comes to HQ crafting, I really wish the system would move away from its current level of predictability. Right now, macros can guarantee a 100% HQ result, and on top of that there are bots, solvers, and plugins that can automate crafting or gathering entirely. When anyone can produce HQ items without even thinking about it, it ends up hurting the economy.

Personally, I would prefer a crafting system where players actually need to adapt to item conditions and make decisions during the process, rather than relying on fully predictable macros. If that means only a small percentage of players can reliably craft HQ items, that’s not necessarily a problem. People could choose to use normal-quality gear and food, learn the crafting system properly, or simply buy HQ items from players who enjoy crafting.

That kind of system would give real value back to crafting.

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This is what this thread was originally made to suggest a fix for to an extent. I think crafting has suffered most in the game's strive to simplify its systems. The crafting classes are now all the exact same, there is no mechanical difference between them.

A rework to add different mechanics and abilities to each crafter would go a long way to make crafting no longer the macro hell it is today. Adjusting the crafting system itself and reworking the crafting classes to have an identity again are things that I think should be done at the same time.

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Originally Posted by LanceSummers

A rework to add different mechanics and abilities to each crafter would go a long way to make crafting no longer the macro hell it is today. Adjusting the crafting system itself and reworking the crafting classes to have an identity again are things that I think should be done at the same time.

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We kinda sorta had that ages ago, in ARR and to an extent HW. I can see a world where, for example, ARM crafting is more reliant on making use of Rapid Synthesis (IE a trait to make it guaranteed to succeed with some condition, such as 'after using Observe'), and GSM is more reliant on the old Maker's Mark/Flawless Synthesis gameplay, etc (IE a trait where, if Basic Synthesis is the first action used, consecutive Basic Synthesis uses cost 0 Durability until another action is used and the chain is broken). But CrossClassing (and recipes having identical Progress/Quality requirements across every Crafter) made it so that every Job just used the same rotation, and some of those rotations were a lot less fun (TL note: took forever to execute) than others, such as any part of HW where we had to do a Maker's Mark opener with any more than 30 Flawless Synthesis uses

Specialist actions could also be retro-fitted to become a way to make this kind of stuff more interesting. Rather than saying 'you cannot craft X recipe unless you're Specialist', having it as 'you can try to craft any recipe you like, Specialist just gives you a bit more stats and access to some new actions that might help you'. Like Heart and Soul is pretty neat, but it's not as big a gamechanger as being able to abuse how Whistle worked to start a recipe with full CP and 1-synth-from-completion Progress. So I'd like to see the current gameplay remain as is for those who want to make use of that, while adding a way for Specialist to be a way for manual-crafting enthusiasts to pull off crafts with far lower stats than a macro-crafter would need

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Originally Posted by LanceSummers

Yes, but if you want casual crafting to be made easier as you said, then this system would have to be reworked
I also think that Square Enix really doesn't do as much with Expert Recipes as they could, while their implementation is fine as is I just want there to be more content centered around Expert Recipes that isn't only furniture or relics
Like, we have zero expert recipe gear recipes in the game... Why?

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I’m sorry, I’m standing here in shock that someone on this forum engaged constructively with something I said. :)

I’d go for more expert recipes, used for more kinds of things. Especially if there was less emphasis on the pre-crafts than current master recipes. Making lots of HQ pre-crafts are my particular boredom point. (Well, that and grinding out or buying hundreds of materia for the essentially mandatory overmelding.)

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Originally Posted by GraceHorizon

I’m sorry, I’m standing here in shock that someone on this forum engaged constructively with something I said. :)

I’d go for more expert recipes, used for more kinds of things. Especially if there was less emphasis on the pre-crafts than current master recipes. Making lots of HQ pre-crafts are my particular boredom point. (Well, that and grinding out or buying hundreds of materia for the essentially mandatory overmelding.)

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IMO, they are better putting the difficulty or engagement behind the abilities rather than on trying to turn master recipes into expert recipes... Which does have a couple of problems.. (and I say this as someone who does expert recipes)

First being, that more easily and accessible experts, e.g., like those in Cosmic or past relics have still been heavily macro-able, and beyond a certain point with that you just use high quality to substitute for the need for RNG (e.g., not being able to guarantee on NQ base material alone) -- Which is the direction they have gone now, versus in past expansions... E.g., don't improve the system but inflate the numbers to where the process is elongated

Short of removing that ability to HQ requisite materials, you won't actually accomplish much, as the priority will still be on "How do we guarantee this result" -- and Square Enix will still look toward that fact.

Like, I think for crafting you want to put the emphasis on the abilities, rather than, for example inflated modifiers and material conditions, and personally my opinion is that experts are a larger RNG check than what they are an ability check.. Sure you won't be successful if you don't know what you're doing... But in the same vein you can do everything right across 1 expert recipe, but still have less favorable RNG, e.g., Rapids failing, or badly timed conditions... In the same vein... You can make plenty of mistakes, but a well-timed Pliant or two will offset a massive amount of that ability-use. Edit: This of course being the assumption that they would take macroing off the table.

This is why I will always harp on about things like Whistle While You Work (as so much of the success was placed on the player), rather than other factors... Which having been apart of that era, and experts... I would actually pick Whistle While You Work every day of the week over experts... Like, you could feel somewhat engaged even with easier recipes... and with the exception of the Ala Mhigan crafted gear, the recipes were generally on the lower side.

There is 1 crafter job, a bunch of clones of it, and 2 gatherer jobs (with 2 clones there).

I'd honestly rather see them all deleted.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

There is 1 crafter job, a bunch of clones of it, and 2 gatherer jobs (with 2 clones there).

I'd honestly rather see them all deleted.

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I want crafting to become more interesting for those who want to engage with it instead of dumbing it down for everyone
I feel that doing this instead of making the different crafters and gatherers unique again will just oversimplify crafting and gathering even more than it already has been, I don't want that.
Also... This would require nuking the entire way quests for crafters and gatherers have been set up.
I don't see this happening, I'd rather uniqueness over more oversimplification