For those who like forked tower and ba

The content is cool and challenging but the systems to join it are better for less challenging content.

If forked tower and ba were balanced to be easier like castrum lacus litore or dalriada it would make sense to make it a dungeon people can accidentally join.

However with it being designed to kick everyone out for one full wipe and having ex to savage level difficulty its just stupid to me.

Why does anyone think otherwise please tell me and help it make sense. If we want a difficult version of this content why not make it something to queue into like delubrum savage?

SE explained why they did it this way. In summary, they didn't think it through. They just did it like Eureka because they were in a rush, and didn't even so much as discuss it with Yoshi-P. This seems to explain "the formula" in general. They just do "what they did last time" because they don't feel like they have time to think about it, or to make their job smooth and consistent.

They actually solved it by making it so you can queue into your own instance of Occult Crescent that is just for that Forked Tower alliance, at least at first, and after a bit others will likely get into the instance. They are going to make a normal mode version next time.

They didn't intend it to be quite as difficult as it is and you can actually kind of see that with things like the telegraphing and the cast names. That was the whole reason for having 3 chances, so that it's not 1 mistake and over. What I suppose they didn't anticipate was that many of those "mistakes" may be caused by large-scale wipes caused by a single mistake like misplaced stacks, mines, etc.

The difficulty was always intended to be savage, they said that they design all content very hard and then tune it down for normal modes instead of the other way around. They ran out of time and had to skip the normal this time around.

They are betting the farm on quantum content where you can dial the difficulty but I expect it to be all or nothing unless they set the loot to reward people do trying middle difficulties.

Pretty sure the entry method was the main complaint for people who liked Forked Tower.

For BA you could say that SE already learned from that when they made DRS, but they don't adjust old content so they won't go back and put BA in its own instance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They just did it like Eureka because they were in a rush, and didn't even so much as discuss it with Yoshi-P. This seems to explain "the formula" in general.

---

If their vaunted "formula" internally translates to "dear employee, stfu and do whatever you did 5 years ago without EVER DARING to think about what you do in the first place"... then maybe someone from higher up should have some real hard thinking about that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Pretty sure the entry method was the main complaint for people who liked Forked Tower.

---

The entry method, while a royal pain, wouldn’t have kept me away from doing it. What did keep me away was that you only get rezzed once and a single person can wipe the entire raid and end the instance, that kept me away. That is horrible punishment for mistakes and makes for serious intimidation.

I enjoy difficult content but I refuse to do unforgiving content. That is just artificial difficulty and will eventually cause social discourse.

I would love to tell the devs, no more one hit kills except for tank busters and no more one mistake wipes, let the enrage timer handle that. Make mistakes slow you down, too many and you won’t make enrage but could still learn. Also get rid of the “you wipe, your out” system, this chases away players who would otherwise try it. Not even Ultimate raids kick you out of the instance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gwenkatsu

If their vaunted "formula" internally translates to "dear employee, stfu and do whatever you did 5 years ago without EVER DARING to think about what you do in the first place"... then maybe someone from higher up should have some real hard thinking about that.

---

"do what you did last time and increase the number of needed clears by factor 10"

I do wonder how far they are going to go with North Horn based on this. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1096631314

Basically in the 9 months that FT:B has been around, there is only a 4.5 percent clear rate of those who have unlocked OC. For comparison's sake, Heavy Weight in the 2 months it has been around, it has a 20 percent clear rate of those who have unlocked Heavyweight Savage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maltothoris

I do wonder how far they are going to go with North Horn based on this. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1096631314

Basically in the 9 months that FT:B has been around, there is only a 4.5 percent clear rate of those who have unlocked OC. For comparison's sake, Heavy Weight in the 2 months it has been around, it has a 20 percent clear rate of those who have unlocked Heavyweight Savage.

---

I am expecting a normal mode forked tower that is fun but does not get really involved, think of a 24 player bosses 1 through 3. Easy to learn on the first run, repeatable, and offers enough loot to keep people playing for a few runs.

I believe they are putting a majority of their resources into 8.0 and leaving 7.x behind. They know the stakes with 8.0 so they will be focusing on it. In some ways, I believe the stakes facing 8.0 are far greater than the stakes that 2.0 faced. SE could survive if 2.0 failed, but if 8.0 goes badly, it will end up causing an internal calamity inside the company.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maltothoris

I do wonder how far they are going to go with North Horn based on this. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1096631314

Basically in the 9 months that FT:B has been around, there is only a 4.5 percent clear rate of those who have unlocked OC. For comparison's sake, Heavy Weight in the 2 months it has been around, it has a 20 percent clear rate of those who have unlocked Heavyweight Savage.

---

Probably a Savage version and a heavily dumbed down normal mode given they always develop the former first.
I think CLL and Dalriada were the only "raids" that were developed as a normal mode first and lo and behold, they were fun, challenging but fair.
I don't want to take away Savage versions but at least for me the latest normal modes are pretty often not even half as good in mechanics as their harder versions because they get stripped too far down instead of making the mechanics simply easier and as such loop too quickly.
I wouldn't be surprised if the entry method stays the same which could result in even more trouble entering as for FT Blood, really hope they follow the Delubrum example.

As it stands now much depends on the second zone and the tower, given they seemingly have abandoned the first one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I am wary of the team considering completion rate as a meaningful goal moving forward. There should be a focus on quality control and some form of survey/feedback/consultation before public release. Completion rates should follow.

If they already have some kind of internal process in place for this, it's not working and it needs to be replaced or expanded.

---

They definitely keep track of it, given that Yoshida touted the EW relics as an unprecedented success because so many more were finished than their predecessors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daralii

They definitely keep track of it, given that Yoshida touted the EW relics as an unprecedented success because so many more were finished than their predecessors.

---

Yes, exactly. It does not tell a complete story. I feel like their latest rollouts are hit and miss, some of it seeming like self sabotage. They may need another set of eyes on the project. Their current work gives me the impression they're grading their own work and rollouts. I'm not sure that is going well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daralii

They definitely keep track of it, given that Yoshida touted the EW relics as an unprecedented success because so many more were finished than their predecessors.

---

I absolutely refuse to consider the EW weapon a relic, you didn’t earn it, you bought it. It is nothing more than a tome weapon.

The DT relic is a step in the right direction but It was way too late. We should have the relic weapon in X.05 and onward so we have something to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voidmage

Probably a Savage version and a heavily dumbed down normal mode given they always develop the former first.
I think CLL and Dalriada were the only "raids" that were developed as a normal mode first and lo and behold, they were fun, challenging but fair.

---

I think you may be onto something here. Savage follows rules that are so strict and formulaic for balance and experience at a high level that just taking it and removing the hard parts only leaves a repetitive, hollow husk that's always the same. Really prevents the devs to truly have fun creating some unique things. Nobody gives a crap that it's ultra balanced or not in casual content anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Yes, exactly. It does not tell a complete story. I feel like their latest rollouts are hit and miss, some of it seeming like self sabotage. They may need another set of eyes on the project. Their current work gives me the impression they're grading their own work and rollouts. I'm not sure that is going well.

---

They pull the same crap in pvp as well, and I can tell that it amuses literally nobody at high level that they use win rates to balance jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyperia

I absolutely refuse to consider the EW weapon a relic, you didn’t earn it, you bought it. It is nothing more than a tome weapon.

---

I farmed for it the same way I farmed for anything that wasn't about tomes. I don't see the difference as far as I'm concerned.

The only valid criticism I can totally see is the total amount required (1500 for a step vs the 20-30k of an anima tome step before the nerfs).