I am again asking for better curly/textured/African hair styles...

(For the purposes of this thread, the use of the words 'curly' or 'textured' are used in reference to the hair you might see on your average African American, and not, for example, the curls or waves you might find on a ginger or a dirty blonde, though they are also lacking decent options)

I've made a post like this before, but it didn't really get much traction. It's been a couple of years, so I figured I'd refurbish it a little with more information.

I am guilty as charged as one of those people who likes to design their character in RPG games after themselves. I'm not a Roegadyn, obviously, but I am tall and broad enough to be closer to it than the average person. So, Negative here is pretty close to what I look like in real life, clothes and maybe the occasional odd proportion nonwithstanding.

When playing east-Asian RPGs, however, it's a trend (or dare I say, a trope) for them to have god-awful options for people like me, and I am thankful to XIV for letting me get as close as I have. We're mostly past the days where every RPG just had 50 shades of paper-white to sandy-peach for skin color, with one option for jet black for the odd blerd (2010s Mabinogi will never not catch strays from me for this), but we're not really at that point yet with hair... which XIV is guilty of as well.

Most RPGs I play (and especially MMOs), it's all just variations on the same straight hairdo, with some odd hair gel nonsense here and there, and maybe a bald and wavy hairstyle. But black textured hair? Only as a joke.

There are so many possibilities for textured hairstyles. Not every black person walks around wearing a '70s doo (well, I do, but that's besides the point). Afro puffs, cruddies, coils, shape ups, short and long braids, waves, fades, sisterlocks, twist outs, frizzing...

https://i.imgur.com/WWpMFgp.jpeghttps://i.imgur.com/rGUbQ2b.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/Ec1wF6f.jpeghttps://i.imgur.com/JHgGS7f.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/arqriF1.png

You might have your own opinions about hair like this, but many people find it beautiful, stylish. For some people, their hair is what largely defines their style. Like me!

So many things you can do with textured hair. Unfortunately, XIV seems to think otherwise, as all they've given us is...

https://i.imgur.com/2fsLWkw.png

...the Disco 'Fro.

I do remember being new to this game and seeing that the game had an Afro style unlockable in the Saucer, and being excited, only to find out that it's this no-forehead monstrosity of a hairy orb.

I understand why this is the only textured hairstyle in the game; it's a meme, and it's funny, plus these east-Asian developers probably thought it wasn't worth the time to implement anything actually realistic because their primary audience at the time (Japanese MMO players) wouldn't care. Plus they probably don't really know what good textured hair looks like, on account of Japan being famously (or infamously depending on who you ask) homogenous...

But it's possible. For instance, World of Warcraft, which has taken leaps and strides in terms of inclusivity in recent expansions, has these examples for much more respectable textured hairstyles...

https://i.imgur.com/gKl0R7l.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/kNBqCZD.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/cerXFmX.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/f6CSu7O.png

...proving that it can be done in a lower-poly, resource-sensitive manner.

Now, not having these hairstyles doesn't kill the game for me. No, a number of other things are already doing that. But if we can constantly make adjustments to Lalafell armor rigging, would it be at all possible to add some hair I can vibe with without having to reroll to a Hrothgar?

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

But it's possible. For instance, World of Warcraft, which has taken leaps and strides in terms of inclusivity in recent expansions, has these examples for much more respectable textured hairstyles...

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Let's be real, those ain't looking better than late year 2000 run of the mill cornstick-textured Second Life haircuts.


If you really want a good reference for those hairstyles, look at how GW2 has done it:

https://i.imgur.com/bHE7YF8.png

https://i.imgur.com/yGQgYN2.png

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Let's be real, those ain't looking better than late year 2000 run of the mill cornstick-textured Second Life haircuts.


If you really want a good reference for those hairstyles, look at how GW2 has done it:

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I use World of Warcraft as it's the most direct comparison, and has shut down the 'these hairstyles are too complex for FFXIV' argument in the past.

I would love hair like you posted in FFXIV.

GW (1 & 2) had ample choices, but I believe that stemmed from the lore and history of the game, and not some attempt at inclusivity. The hairstyles we have in FFXIV already lean towards a certain hair type. Overall, we have little curly hairstyles even for women (but we do have some I would consider ethnic). Perhaps not so much for men. I love the skin color range FFXIV has and use it well, although I do wish ample hairstyles become available and "race" majority in these hairstyles diminish. I'd like to see more hairstyles which represent the entire world, as I see more than just this type lacking in quantity.

I'm in 100% support of this.

I'm content with my hair, and everyone should be represented and valued with that same level of contentment.

Yoshi P, please notice. Thank you!

I support this along with giving us more choices in customizing our character faces and more.

I just want the version of the afro thats shrunk down when using a hat as a permanent hairstyle. Is it so much to ask them to use the afro texture on a much more normal sized and shape hair do?

Huge support for this! I think wanting to look like your character in game is insanely valid and people who say otherwise are a bit ridiculous. (along with any other reason folks want this added, ofc)

Nothing wrong with more choices.

Yes please. There are four major hair textures in humans and it feels like only 2 really get represented well in XIV right now.

Just to *start* they could make the dreads that are only available to female characters available to everyone.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/wp-content/...7-1-hair-2.jpg

after their most recent attempt at non-straight hair (*that i can recall anyway), i don't think these devs even have the ability to be able to model such hairstyles

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

https://www.pcgamesn.com/wp-content/...7-1-hair-2.jpg
after their most recent attempt at non-straight hair (*that i can recall anyway), i don't think these devs even have the ability to be able to model such hairstyles

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It's not that, it's that every time we have one of these hairstyle design contests, people don't draw the hairstyles in ways that translate to the dev team well enough. As a westerner, we know immediately what that drawing meant to convey. They don't. and I don't even say that in a "aww but they dont know what anything outside of japan is!!" excusatory way. I mean- if you look at that drawing and then compare it to what the devs released, unfortunately, that actually is an exact replica. They made an exact replica of the drawing on the model. They didn't interpret it any kind of other way, they didn't do any research. They simply copied the drawing 1:1.

It's confusing because if you look at the art NEXT to the model, you can see a better example of what the artist actually meant. But the team disregarded that and copied the hair on the main model instead, which THAT hair DOES look flat and noodely exactly like they released. and that's why it is of extreme importance that when people enter contests, they really really draw exactly what they mean. Having multiple examples didnt work, because they simply picked the biggest one. If people want to submit big curly hairstyles then they're going to have to draw exclusively a big curly hairstyle with no wiggle-room to misunderstand and make it flat. Unfortunately, that drawing does makes it look flat. and so it came out flat. I say this as someone with big curly hair myself lol. That drawing looks nothing like what I know they meant for it to look like. The one where they added the rainbow did!! but their main example was totally flat looking. I do hope they eventually add curly hair, I think it'd be adorable. They will likely need to see what people mean, though.

I think it's possible, but they need an actually good reference to go off of (no offense to the artist, they did their best).

more options = better

As long as they are well designed, otherwise it's basically a waste if they rush a hairstyle design purely just so that they can tick a box saying they have created "it" for brownie points.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

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after their most recent attempt at non-straight hair (*that i can recall anyway), i don't think these devs even have the ability to be able to model such hairstyles

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I still don't know what happened with that one. It was probably the loudest cry from the community for something other than asian/anime hair, and they basically fed it into an AI 3D model generator and called it a day.

The easiest one they could for what I'm asking for do would just be a shorter afro, literally a rounded box on the head with the same texture they use for for the disco 'fro, I don't 3D model and I could probably make that hairstyle in an afternoon from 0 knowledge. If the people actually getting paid to do this messes something like that up, I would be fully convinced the entire studio was abducted and replaced by aliens.

Plus, they've done good looking braids before. I have faith that they can do it. Whether or not they can do it respectfully (cough DISCO FRO) is another question.

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

As long as they are well designed, otherwise it's basically a waste if they rush a hairstyle design purely just so that they can tick a box saying they have created "it" for brownie points.

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Not asking for a rush, just for consideration. Even if we just got more instances of tied back braids, I'd be okay with that as a start.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

I still don't know what happened with that one. It was probably the loudest cry from the community for something other than asian/anime hair, and they basically fed it into an AI 3D model generator and called it a day.

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What happened with that is they tried and to do it correctly turned out to require far more polygons than they allot to the use of hairstyles, so what they ended up with that still came in within their polygon budget only looked somewhat inspired by the actual winning design. But they added it anyway, since the work was done and people might still like what they came up with.

Proper loose curls (and to be fair, waves--there is rarely hair like mine in games either because of this, and I'm so pale I reflect light) are very difficult to make without blowing the polygon count out of the water. Much easier to make straight hair or very tight curls. A lot of what you're asking for is well within their capabilities--they just need to do it. Loose curls tho, that's a right pain in the ass.

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Originally Posted by Astronis

What happened with that is they tried and to do it correctly turned out to require far more polygons than they allot to the use of hairstyles, so what they ended up with that still came in within their polygon budget only looked somewhat inspired by the actual winning design. But they added it anyway, since the work was done and people might still like what they came up with.

Proper loose curls (and to be fair, waves--there is rarely hair like mine in games either because of this, and I'm so pale I reflect light) are very difficult to make without blowing the polygon count out of the water. Much easier to make straight hair or very tight curls. A lot of what you're asking for is well within their capabilities--they just need to do it. Loose curls tho, that's a right pain in the ass.

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Just remembered the anecdote about Pixar having to make an entire new physics engine to handle Merida's hair back in the day.

And also when FF15 came out, that Noctis' hair had so many polygons, you could fit the source code of FF6 into the file size for it.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

Just remembered the anecdote about Pixar having to make an entire new physics engine to handle Merida's hair back in the day.

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That does not surprise me. That kind of hair is difficult to depict.

Short fros tho? Dreads? Braids? Fades? Yeah, SE can do all that. Would be wonderful if they did.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

Not asking for a rush, just for consideration. Even if we just got more instances of tied back braids, I'd be okay with that as a start.

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Oh no, I didn't mean you were rushing them, sorry if it sounded that way. I do support the request for better textured hairstyles.

I meant in their development cycles, or however they ration out content to be deployed. If they could something similar(or better) to what they did when bringing up Hrothgar/Viera hairstyles in the more recent patches, I think it would be a wonderful thing for them to include textured hairstyles. My post was mainly just being concerned that they would be like "ok we hear you" and then implement it in a sloppy and haphazard manner.

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Originally Posted by Astronis

Short fros tho? Dreads? Braids? Fades? Yeah, SE can do all that. Would be wonderful if they did.

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They already have, in fact. An afro exists, braids exist, fades are just a matter of different textures.