Suggestion: Rework ARR and HW jobs onboarding

Has anyone tried recently to pick up a new ARR job? Not only you have to grind first 15 levels on mobs, but you are also literally locked into one roulette until level 50, esseitnally being locked into either same ARR duty grind over and over or having to stretch levelling over literally months. And in addition, you have to do insane amount of quests and solo duties just to unlock new key abilities that are essential to play the job?

Here are my suggestions regarding jobs:

- Completely detach ALL job skills from story. Have story be entirely optional, for people that care about it. Let others just enjoy the gameplay without having to spend few hours to this slog.

- Heavensward jobs: have an Ishgardian Representative in Coerthas central highlands that will allow players of level 30 or higher to pick up HW jobs immediately without reaching Heavensward. Later they can do story quests if they wish so.

- Experience redirection mode: allow to queue roulettes as one job and receive it's exp as another job.

- Boost exp gain before level 50: for example +400%. Nobody enjoys jobs before at least that level, most of them just do not even work properly.

- Remove job stones. At level 30, class auto upgrades to job and that's it.

At this point I’m convinced people just don’t want to play the game

Why should you get rewards for a class for completing a roulette if you aren’t playing it? We already don’t have enough healers and tanks why should you be able to play BLM to level your AST just so you can dump yourself in a high level roulette and have no idea how the job works

If anything the newer jobs should be pulled down to lower levels so it at least forces people to play them before high levels. Dealing with first time SGE’s who hadn’t even read their tooltips on holminster switch at EW launch still gives me nightmares

i agree on jobstones, remove them... or at least make them mandatory for any content with randoms over lvl 40 (or even sooner).


i prefer getting skills from jobquests though. it feels more like you spend time on your job and your character getting better on it.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

- Remove job stones. At level 30, class auto upgrades to job and that's it.

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Absolutely not, there is people who enjoy doing themed runs of current content, raids alliance raids, so on, as Disciplines rather than Jobs, it is an extremely niche thing? absolutely, but we shouldn't be narrowing down further how you are even allowed to play the game.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Why should you get rewards for a class for completing a roulette if you aren’t playing it? We already don’t have enough healers and tanks why should you be able to play BLM to level your AST just so you can dump yourself in a high level roulette and have no idea how the job works

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If you allow me to take a poke at this... you can already do that, you can use Frontlines to level your job, play the Job in CC and other PvP modes which play radically different from PvE anyway, you can use Society dailies, you can use Khloe books, there is actually a very substantial amount of XP you can get by never touching a given Job. You could very well argue that shouldn't be the case, but it is possible. You could also argue that because it is so possible, that it doesn't need to be changed further. Either way, I am just pointing out that it is possible.

Well firstly I would say that getting to level 30 is extremely quick. You can get to level 7-8 by killing enemies. Then you can:

• Rotate class quests every 5 levels.
• Queue for the next 2 guildhest bonuses every 5 levels.
• Do hunt log while waiting for the guildhest queue.
• When you run out of these things to do, probably around level 30 or after, you can finally do Leveling Roulette and Guildhest Roulette, then repeat the above to around 50.
• Do all roulettes at 50.

However, after getting close to 50 it really does start getting slow, because now you only have your dailies and weeklies and they are not going to get you anywhere near level 100 without probably weeks of effort unless you farm leveling dungeons or deep dungeons.

So to me, it is the gap between 50 and 100 that has increasingly become the problem due to the game's growth over time, compounded by us having more than double the amount of jobs we used to have. If I make an alt character, there is no way that I level ARR, HW or SB jobs. I have to endure the meme of being a Gunbreaker, Sage or Pictomancer/Viper and everyone knowing that new players or alts pick them due to them being the least leveling effort.

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Completely detach ALL job skills from story.

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They probably will eventually, at least important ones, because they already stopped bothering adding them to job quests much due to noticing people put them off on alt jobs. Then they stopped making quests altogether for existing jobs.

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have an Ishgardian Representative in Coerthas central highlands that will allow players of level 30 or higher to pick up HW jobs immediately without reaching Heavensward.

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They might do this eventually, and the reason is because they know it was a mistake. They instantly regretted having AST, DRK and MCH story-gated and never did it again, because it meant new players never picked them; it was always existing mains of those roles simply using them as an alt role. They still have to level up a lot to use new jobs but given they overlevel so much now, they can pick them up a lot earlier in their journey and they do. Given how long the game has been around though, they may have a different mindset now, because playing multiple jobs has been the accepted norm for many years now to the point relic quests have been designed to reflect that since Shadowbringers.

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Experience redirection mode: allow to queue roulettes as one job and receive it's exp as another job.

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That just wouldn't make sense and there are alternatives if you really do not want to play the job, which is to level via society quests and daily hunt bills, which are so effortless that you don't have to play your job at all to do them. You can press absolutely any attack button to beat these in a few hits, and sometimes won't need any at all.

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Boost exp gain before level 50: for example +400%. Nobody enjoys jobs before at least that level, most of them just do not even work properly.

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It would make more sense to boost it after 50 because leveling to 50 is pretty quick and likely going to take only a day, compared to the rest that is either a dungeon farm for 50 levels or weeks of dailies.

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At level 30, class auto upgrades to job and that's it.

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Incoming quality of life sometime in the next 20 years. They only do 3-5 QoL updates per patch so it may take up to a few decades.

I fully agree with detaching skills from quests, not for making the story optional but because you can outpace the quests pretty easily on a new a character... You'll probably be a bit over 50 by the time you reach Heavensward, and even then you have to reach the different zones in the story to fully go do the quests to unlock everything.
And leveling other jobs later, you have to take a break every 5 levels in ARR and every 2 in HW to go do your quest for a new skill.

I don't know if they can get rid of the base classes... But one of the more reasonable suggestions that's been floated around on the forums is just forcing any duties above 30 to require a job stone to be equipped.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If anything the newer jobs should be pulled down to lower levels so it at least forces people to play them before high levels. Dealing with first time SGE’s who hadn’t even read their tooltips on holminster switch at EW launch still gives me nightmares

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Let's say they start at level 50. PCT doesn't even get a second button to press until level 25 and that's just AoE.

Solutions to skip everything aren't solutions.

Actual solutions would be to actually rework the leveling parts of the game and make them engaging again. By nature of skill pruning and constant changes, it's in its current state for a reason.
Back in HW you had two full hotbars at lvl35. Crossclass skills, while a flawed system, also allowed to have even more on hotbars. The whole battle system also meant that mowing down mobs that die in 3 shots today by spamming the same two buttons wasn't the only thing that happened in there.

As someone who got fast-tracked to level 80 back in the day due to the huge XP bonus on Dynamis (and then leveled 81-100 the same as anyone else), I admit I'm going to have a skewed view on lot of these things.

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Completely detach ALL job skills from story. Have story be entirely optional, for people that care about it. Let others just enjoy the gameplay without having to spend few hours to this slog.

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No to making the story optional (because we know damn well everyone would just skip it all to hurry up making the game into a roulette simulator) unless the character is an alt, but yes to removing skills being tied to job quests because it was rather annoying being 80+ before I had even stepped foot into Heavensward proper and yet it felt like 1/3 of my kit wasn't accessible, doubly so if you needed one skill to unlock other skills in the chain.

It would make more sense to let all skills be gained by leveling BUT change the job quests to actually MAKE people use the skills they gain to understand them, even if they have to fail and redo a solo duty because they botched it. Despite what I said earlier about missing skills, as someone who went through the MSQ as a Paladin, I'm hard-pressed to think of a single moment in the PLD questline OR the MSQ where I needed to use things like Cover, Intervention, Passage of Arms, or hell even Clemency and Shield Bash.

As much as I like PLD, it feels like the one job I never really get to use the job gauge outside of Sheltron/Holy Sheltron, and I have so many OTHER defensive skills that the Sheltrons feel unnecessary at times. I'm sure there's other examples of "we put this on your hotbar, but we won't make you use it for anything" across other job quests, and even role quests, that it doesn't surprise me at all that so many people jump into group content having literally no idea what they're doing because the game taught them nothing.
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Heavensward jobs: have an Ishgardian Representative in Coerthas central highlands that will allow players of level 30 or higher to pick up HW jobs immediately without reaching Heavensward. Later they can do story quests if they wish so.

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I'm down for letting DRK/MCH/AST be available sooner because there was a point in time where I actually had all jobs at 90 but those 3 because I hadn't progressed far enough in the MSQ yet, but I was still doing roulettes/PVP with so much XP going to waste.

I'm still not keen with letting people skip out on the actual stories though (if they're a new player anyway), least of all DRK's because it's genuinely interesting.
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Experience redirection mode: allow to queue roulettes as one job and receive it's exp as another job.

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I don't think that's really necessary given all the other ways you can funnel XP into a job you're not actively playing in other content. I mean, hell, I have every tank and healer at 100 and I have never once used them in a dungeon (with other players), trial, or raid, and even in PVP they were more like "blue and green DPS" because I didn't play them like their role at all, lol.
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Boost exp gain before level 50: for example +400%. Nobody enjoys jobs before at least that level, most of them just do not even work properly.

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I'd rather they just overhauled when we got certain skills. VPR and PCT being the worst examples so far of "please god don't sync me".
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Remove job stones. At level 30, class auto upgrades to job and that's it.

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I would prefer if classes were just locked out of doing 31+ content to avoid any issues of people wandering into content they shouldn't be doing yet/purposefully trolling the rest of their party.

Leveling from 1~50 is already fast and easy even without the exp-boosting accessories.

The only suggestion I like there is removing job stones.

I already don't like how every new job is limited to having its unlock and starting quest being in one of the starting cities, specially considering the level requirements get so high the majority of players wouldn't have any problem whatsoever having at the very least Heavensward and Stormblood cities unlocked at that point. Adding even more jobs to the lame design decision of putting everything in Ul'dah, Gridania and Limsa Lominsa is a big no no IMO.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If anything the newer jobs should be pulled down to lower levels so it at least forces people to play them before high levels. Dealing with first time SGE’s who hadn’t even read their tooltips on holminster switch at EW launch still gives me nightmares

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Normally I'd agree with this. I feel more attached to the older jobs because I had a whole journey from 1 to current with them. But it's hard to veto when their action sets and rotations are only balanced for the last 20 levels of content. They have way fewer actions to use for much longer than the older jobs and that feels incredibly miserable during the 15~20 minutes of duties alone. Imagine having to LEVEL like that.

1. SMN/SCH exist.
2. Spotted the guy who is scared of PoTD I guess.
3. I need the class hotbars for macro menus which are entirely within the game's scope of things you can do without mods, and would be wiped out as a result of this.
4. You already get free EXP from everything.

This right here is why we can't have nice things... This irritates me just as much as when people complain about "fillers" in anime. All they want to watch is fight scenes, everything else is just a hassle and a "waste of time" to them. Either you enjoy a game or you play another game that you enjoy spending time on.

Considering I can just level most of my jobs from frontlines and WT every expansion. OP's suggestion seems extreme.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

Has anyone tried recently to pick up a new ARR job? Not only you have to grind first 15 levels on mobs, but you are also literally locked into one roulette until level 50, esseitnally being locked into either same ARR duty grind over and over or having to stretch levelling over literally months. And in addition, you have to do insane amount of quests and solo duties just to unlock new key abilities that are essential to play the job?

Here are my suggestions regarding jobs:

- Completely detach ALL job skills from story. Have story be entirely optional, for people that care about it. Let others just enjoy the gameplay without having to spend few hours to this slog.

- Heavensward jobs: have an Ishgardian Representative in Coerthas central highlands that will allow players of level 30 or higher to pick up HW jobs immediately without reaching Heavensward. Later they can do story quests if they wish so.

- Experience redirection mode: allow to queue roulettes as one job and receive it's exp as another job.

- Boost exp gain before level 50: for example +400%. Nobody enjoys jobs before at least that level, most of them just do not even work properly.

- Remove job stones. At level 30, class auto upgrades to job and that's it.

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I actually agree with a lot on what's said despite the lack of likes.

1. I somewhat agree, I think the story is generally a very boring slog to go through, Especially the outdated ARR experience which is 0 gameplay and 99% talk to NPC, even the dungeons are pretty much auto play for anyone plaaying a DPS role; I'd personally want there to be a NEW starting point I do think there should be something before people get into raids as you will get people who don't know a thing about the game in endgame raids with a bunch of skills which is gonna be bad.
2. Agreed, HW jobs should be unlocked as soon as you reach 30, some people wanna be DRK eariler Ast eariler Ect.
3. Disagree, I don't really think this is a good idea I think people should still learn the job they are leveling.
4. I agree, but i also think they need to start looking into making ARR more enjoyable ARR is the biggest wall for people enjoying the game and most people leave because of how terrible it plays.
5. Honestly I agree; Also give scholar a separate starting class from arcanist as only having one healer option sucks.

I think in general I agree but I think it speaks larger on the issues with how poorly the early game plays and how much people get driven away from the game or learning/playing a new job because how awful it feels at early levels.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I actually agree with a lot on what's said despite the lack of likes.

1. I somewhat agree, I think the story is generally a very boring slog to go through, Especially the outdated ARR experience which is 0 gameplay and 99% talk to NPC, even the dungeons are pretty much auto play for anyone plaaying a DPS role; I'd personally want there to be a NEW starting point I do think there should be something before people get into raids as you will get people who don't know a thing about the game in endgame raids with a bunch of skills which is gonna be bad.

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Let's be honest here, the entire MSQ is 95% talk to NPC and 5% gameplay. This has barely changed over the years, except instead of having to kill random overworld mobs or search for wine you get a solo instance.
There is a bunch of gameplay they could experience through side content but how many new players actually engage with it when they get funneled into the MSQ until level cap?

The entire leveling experience needs an overhaul as well. 1-50 was fine when you still had a bunch of abilities and cross class skills to unlock, not so much when you spam the same 2 buttons for most of it.
Give people more of their job kit much earlier and especially the core parts so they can actually get a feel for how it plays while they level. Because right now you're playing a version that doesn't even function properly until level 90 and it teaches incredibly bad habits.

Most of people leveled all jobs through botting and thus never experienced a hassle and say "its fine".

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

Most of people leveled all jobs through botting and thus never experienced a hassle and say "its fine".

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"If you don't agree with me you are a bot" is certainly a take of all time.

the first 15 lvl go very quickly if you do hunting logs and class quests. its not even close to a grind nowadays xD

Personally I'd like to see MORE JOBS locked behind reaching certain points and areas of the game. It's annoying that post-HW they seem to feel like the new jobs MUST ALL be added in the starter cities even when it makes not a lick of sense.

It's unnecessary clutter and hurts what little job story we still get; if the job quests start at level 50 they should be at minimum in a level 50 area, if they start at 70 let them start in a 70 area and so on. It might be a little frustrating for some players to have to - GASP - wait to be able to unlock the one job they want out of our rather large selection of possible jobs, but I'd far prefer that to having to believe it somehow makes sense for (for example) the Samurai job quests not to start in Doma.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

Personally I'd like to see MORE JOBS locked behind reaching certain points and areas of the game. It's annoying that post-HW they seem to feel like the new jobs MUST ALL be added in the starter cities even when it makes not a lick of sense.

It's unnecessary clutter and hurts what little job story we still get; if the job quests start at level 50 they should be at minimum in a level 50 area, if they start at 70 let them start in a 70 area and so on. It might be a little frustrating for some players to have to - GASP - wait to be able to unlock the one job they want out of our rather large selection of possible jobs, but I'd far prefer that to having to believe it somehow makes sense for (for example) the Samurai job quests not to start in Doma.

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this... i agree. i want jobquests in their homearea and not another stranger who happens to pass by.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

- Heavensward jobs: have an Ishgardian Representative in Coerthas central highlands that will allow players of level 30 or higher to pick up HW jobs immediately without reaching Heavensward.

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This is the ONLY part of your argument I agree with. In actuality, I wish they'd go a step further and let us start the game as any job regardless of where that job originally unlocked at... But I understand why that could be an issue and as much as I wish I could start as DRK or DNC immediately, I am okay without it. It gives you something to work towards.

Here's why I disagree with the rest. As someone who just recently started a new character on Crystal without the exp earring, exp buff, FC buffs, food or anything (because I was trying not to over level). I played through the main story quest ONLY, no other side quests/hunt log, etc and was level 16 before I even reached the quest to leave my home city-state. By the time I finish the quests between that and Sastasha I will probably be level 22-25 for a dungeon that starts @ level 16 (the level I am right now). Knowing that a roulette or dungeon bonus of any kind is going to over level me further for the range of quests I am in, I am very confident I could get from 1-30 in a matter of about 2 hours or so just from doing nothing but MSQ.

So now I am curious why you seem to be having such a hard time and are needing to grind on mobs? I havent killed a single monster outside of my class quests and MSQ quests and Im already level 16 and at the level 14 quest "A Matter of Tradition" which will let me leave Uldah. I actually get greatly annoyed when I am overlevelled, and have taken every possible approach I could not to over level this character as it takes the challenge out of the experience. As it happens no matter what I do, I will be overleveled anyways after Sastasha... So why do you need or want a 400% exp boost when its already so easy to gain exp. Even more so, if your on a preferred world server with the Road to 90 buff.

In regard to your last argument, removing job stones and auto upgrading them would take all the lore that I love about jobs away so no, I dont want that either.

To be fair, it really sounds like you just want to job skip... in which case you can pay $25 to do that.

I bought the game at the end of January, and I find it obscenely absurd how fast I've leveled up. I'm lvl 58 and I just unlocked Castrum Meridianum.

I don't even have the EXP items from the Collector's Edition, the only buff I got is the one from the server I picked.

Leveling seems rather easy.

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Originally Posted by synthwev

I bought the game at the end of January, and I find it obscenely absurd how fast I've leveled up. I'm lvl 58 and I just unlocked Castrum Meridianum.

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When you join a server with Preferred status, you get a buff that not only doubles EXP from enemies, but also doubles quest EXP. It is the only buff in the game that doubles quest EXP. That means you level at twice the pace you normally would.

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Leveling seems rather easy.

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It is easy, but it's not really fair to compare it to a situation where you don't have the Road to 90 buff, because some people will start on worlds without Preferred status.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

When you join a server with Preferred status, you get a buff that not only doubles EXP from enemies, but also doubles quest EXP. It is the only buff in the game that doubles quest EXP. That means you level at twice the pace you normally would.
It is easy, but it's not really fair to compare it to a situation where you don't have the Road to 90 buff, because some people will start on worlds without Preferred status.

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Even without Preferred status it doesn't seem that hard. I started when there was only Road to 80 and the level cap was 90, and even when they bumped it up to Road to 90, I was already capped by then and level 100 was the new maximum. I had to earn levels 81-100 without any XP boost (not even food because I don't bother with it), or even doing current content as I got every combat job to 100 before I had even finished Stormblood.

But I also wasn't above scrapping XP up where I could beyond just roulettes, such as society quests, side quests, and weekly challenges. I think the closest I got to "grinding" on mobs was doing FATEs, and even then it was doing 10 in lower level zones for the weekly challenge XP, not the FATEs themselves.

Before I went on an extended break from the game I did start lvling a new character. Without the preferred realm buff you do hit 1 wall if you ONLY do the MSQ. And that's between 45-50.
But yeah, as others have said already. It's stupid easy to LVL up already. If all OP did was grind mobs, that's on them.
The only point OP brought up that I agree with is splitting it away from the MSQ.