Do We Remember That a Game Is Meant to Be Fun?

I have been a FINAL FANTASY XIV player since the very beginning, back in A Realm Reborn. Over the years I’ve had periods of rest and others of heavy playtime, but I have always remained connected to the game.
My current Total Play Time is 465 days, 0 hours, and 26 minutes, which I believe clearly reflects my level of commitment and experience.

I want to share this opinion with one clear goal: for FFXIV to better adapt to current demands and continue receiving genuine care from its development team. It saddens me to say this, but the game has become boring, and in many ways it feels like long-time, loyal players are no longer being considered.

I don’t want to overextend this post, but the accumulation of questionable decisions is becoming increasingly frustrating—so much so that maintaining an active subscription sometimes feels pointless, even if it means risking the loss of a house. And that should be a serious warning sign.

The question is simple: do we remember that a game is supposed to be fun?

Society quests, roulettes, grinding, farming… everything has become so repetitive that it often feels like a job. More than once, I’ve had to fight against a “sense of duty” toward the game—logging in not because I want to enjoy myself, but because I have to do my dailies. The motivation has shifted from “I want to have fun” to “I can’t leave this unfinished.”

I love this game. I love its visuals, its story, and its world. But in my opinion, the playable content has become absurdly boring.

Who on the development team believes it’s fun to do the same Society Quests every single day?
Who thought it was engaging to constantly send players across the entire map just to collect objects?
Who considers it enjoyable to run the same dungeons over and over again just to get proper gear?
I’ve been running essentially the same dungeons for ten years.
And who thinks it’s fun that, as a SCH, my main gameplay loop is pressing Broil repeatedly?

At times, it even feels like the team forgets this is supposed to be an RPG. The MSQ could include more combat, more interaction, and more actual gameplay. Expansions—narrative aside—often feel structurally identical, with only the environments changing.

I try to convince myself that maybe the issue is simply that I’ve been playing for too many years. But when I stop and think about it, the sense of surprise has been gone for quite a long time now.

I know changes have been promised for the next expansion, and I’m waiting to see what will be announced at FANFEST. But honestly, 8.0 feels like my last hope.

It feels like a team that has been working on the same title for many years and is struggling to take risks. There’s a noticeable lack of new ideas, creativity, and innovation. Please listen to your players, listen to the feedback, and don’t be afraid to bring in new voices and bold ideas.

Thank you for reading ❤️

i mean at the end of the day its still an mmo even if its story focused you'll still have boring repetetive stuff todo in it, the content in dawntrail has been pretty good, the story i couldnt care less i wish they'd give us a skip buttonf or it for free but eh it is what it is, also alot of the boring parts about the content is because everytime SE changes something up some people cry about it be it raiders or msq andys who only log in for msq so yea i dont think it will chance, and also nobody is forcing you to stay online and play this game, take a break play other games or do w/e its your free time

Hi, have you considered taking a break?

Ok, a more serious reply since I'm hoping this is written by a human and not genAI is that I only do activities that I find fun for me even if I'm not playing the game in the most ideal situation for over a decade now. Then I login around reset time and do my fav rous like mentor, trials, and nraid when I'm not working on my relic so now that I am it's added to 2x EXDR and 1x Capped because I hate leveling rous alot.

Finally, I don't do Society quests because I find them boring and I stopped caring about them after I got my mounts for years too. Then I tried Cosmo Exp and it boring so I just bought the tradeable rewards and moved on to the next thing. Also, I did OC at release date because it was the best way to get demiatmas, but after I got the riding map and the 4 man ship mount, then I stopped going there because I don't want to do FT1.

Most of the content of MMO is going to be repetitive and locked by time gates because it's normal in this game format as players will always burn through what took devs months and years of content so fast that they will always run out of things to do before the next big patch release. However, if this is your first MMO then I understand that you might not be aware of how a MMO works too.

Yes, of course I’m aware that no one is forcing me to play a game I don’t want to play… thank you for the repeated clarification that always comes up whenever someone dares to criticize something. However, conformity or passive acceptance are not solutions for change.
Square Enix is a company and, like any other, it wants revenue and active subscriptions. My statement is about the fact that, at this pace, the game risks disregarding players who think the way I do.

As Yoshida himself once said: “I’m more worried when a game receives no criticism than when it does.” He was referring to the idea that criticism is an expression of players’ care, involvement, and desire for the game to improve.

I really do agree with you on a bunch of the things you criticized here but this whole post seems to be wrapped in a weird soapboxy message. Do we remember that a game is supposed to be fun? i mean yea? i still do? Is there things i would like improved? yea. Does not rushing out changes affect the fun im having? no. Like i get it, doing the same thing for years on end gets stale. Theres no helping it, and i feel for the devs who have to balance making changes to keep things fresh and keeping things similar enough to not chase people away. Take a break, walk away. Play another game.

Are we really normalizing the idea that an MMO has to be repetitive and boring? I honestly don’t think that’s the right path if the goal is for the game to grow, evolve, and surprise its players. My criticism is not about repetition alone, but about the lack of innovation, and I would even add the increasing simplicity of many systems.

Jobs have been simplified over time (speaking as a former SMN who used to manage Bio and Miasma). Combat encounters rarely introduce truly new ideas, maps remain similar in size with very limited exploration potential (GW2 as an example), and the endgame structure has followed the same formula patch after patch for nearly a decade.

I understand that repetition and time-gating are common in MMOs, and I’m not new to the genre. What concerns me is how little FFXIV has evolved in its core gameplay systems despite its success and long lifespan.

And no, I’m not an AI, I just use AI tools to help polish my English since I’m not a native speaker.

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Originally Posted by Khiel

The question is simple: do we remember that a game is supposed to be fun?

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Games are meant to be fun, but the MMORPG genre as a whole has always incorporated grinding and boring repetition and RNG, so even if there are fun parts of this genre, these things often dilute it.

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Society quests, roulettes, grinding, farming… everything has become so repetitive that it often feels like a job.

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None of that has changed. It was the case in ARR, if not moreso. Remember the Atma farm or numerous beast tribes?

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Who on the development team believes it’s fun to do the same Society Quests every single day?

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I believe the fun is meant to be in the progress bar that ranks you up.

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Who thought it was engaging to constantly send players across the entire map just to collect objects?

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Compared to many other games, they reduced the time it takes to do dailies to just 10 minutes or less though. So at least it's over with quick. I don't think they need to have us repeat these quests, but they do so that's just how it is, and at the end of the ranking you may need to do them again for currencies or rewards later on.

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Who considers it enjoyable to run the same dungeons over and over again just to get proper gear?

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No "proper gear" comes from dungeons. The gear from dungeons is for players that are too lazy to gear properly using crafted gear, tomestone gear or savage gear. However, I agree that farming dungeons for glamour reasons with no guarantee of even getting it is boring. Most likely SE would agree it's boring, but they never see the feedback on changing this whenever it's brought up on the forums, because they ignore the forums or at least the English ones.

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And who thinks it’s fun that, as a SCH, my main gameplay loop is pressing Broil repeatedly?

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I don't think they do. I think they were reducing stress for new, returning or casual players or non-gamer partners of FFXIV players that can barely figure out what the controls do, etc.

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The MSQ could include more combat, more interaction, and more actual gameplay.

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Although I agree because there are games that tell a story without locking you into a cutscene always, I believe they are copying other FF games where a lot of time is spent actually just clicking to the next textbox.

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Expansions—narrative aside—often feel structurally identical, with only the environments changing.

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That's an issue. Their aesthetic department is able to come up with a lot of fresh stuff (music, environment, etc). But mechanically, their programmers, UI team and mechanical design team don't really create much that's new. They explained recently to us that there is a problem where they just do stuff based on precedent without even consulting Yoshi-P due to deadlines.

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Originally Posted by Khiel

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No, you are not alone in that. And its not a case of burn-out either, as some people on the internet might want to try to gaslight you to believe. What I read a lot is that people are bored. And while some constantly repeat the mantra of "content in DT has been the best it has ever been", raids are pretty much still like in Shadowbringers/Endwalker - namely, all of the meaningful stuff is "square or circular arena with boss that does mechanics on a fixed timeline". Those that find this particular design paradigm boring get left behind, and while I think it is good that people that enjoy this kinda dance learning have content that caters to them, we need to remember that this game used to offer more variety than that. More than just "learning the dance". ARR and HW raids were not pre-planneable to the same extend as the current raids due to boss phases shifting with HP threshholds, which drastically changes how they are played and experienced. Classes played less samey too, which increased replayability imho.

And its not just fairs - a lot of the content has been quote unquote streamlined, and it feels. Variety in societal quests feels less than in previous expansions, at least.

Its unfortunate that MSQ has seemingly less and less gameplay too. Watching 4-6 hours of cutscenes, only to have that interrupted by 15 minutes of gameplay when you can enter a dungeon feels, quite frankly, unengaging.

Currently, I'm in a similar boat like you, really. Hopefully 8.0 is wonderful in more ways than just visuals and story-telling.

Also, I want to say it's OK to quit FFXIV if you're not having fun anymore because this is a paid sub MMO and if the money could be better put towards a different game or hobby, then it's fine.

Finally, I want to say to everyone who believes that 8.0 will totally revamp the game that this is never going to happen or in a way that actually would be meaningful to keep players who are bored with the core gameplay too. Also, I can only expect we're going to get more fun zones, 2 new jobs, new dungeons, new collectibles/glams, and some job revamps, but nothing that would be like ARR 2.0 again, so it's time to give up this dream.

FWIW: Most of my friends have already quit for one reason or another, and I just play because I like and find FFXIV fun, even if I'm not the primary audience for every new content released too.

I don't mind the repetitive aspect within an expansion, as to a large degree that is what gives an MMO its content (Granted we still haven't had a great deal of it).

But what I personally take issue with is the simple fact that for the most part an expansion is just a reskin of a previous expansion, albeit with different items.. Like for the most part I am not doing anything different than what I have been for the past 3-4 expansions.

I remember there was a time when my Steam backlog was growing because I started playing FF14, and now over the last year I've been knocking that backlog out because I barely play FF14, including quite possibly unsubbing in March which would mark the first time I WON'T have houses to drag me back to avoid losing them. Hell, this last maintenance I re-installed SWTOR for the first time in years, I just need to unbind and re-bind my security key because I changed phones recently.

I don't know what went wrong with FF14, or how much it got right in the first place when I really think about it... but I've played gacha games that made me feel like my time, and money, was better spent.

What, you don't enjoy doing the same craft jobs 500 times over for 8 different jobs just to get a shiny tool that's technically weaker than the one you can buy from the shop? (market I mean) O.o That's the definition of fun ya'know

I’ll say this: my favorite thing in FFXIV has always been duty roulettes. The game has a deep library of multiplayer content, and doing pickup games with random people keeps it fresh because my teammates always do things a little differently. But lately roulettes have been getting stale for me because there are fewer casual and midcore players, and I too often end up getting cranky hardcore folks who are trying to speedrun content for tomestones or crystal paste or whatever. So the fun is going out of the game for me too, and I’m indeed cutting back my play time.

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Originally Posted by GraceHorizon

But lately roulettes have been getting stale for me because there are fewer casual and midcore players, and I too often end up getting cranky hardcore folks who are trying to speedrun content for tomestones or crystal paste or whatever. So the fun is going out of the game for me too, and I’m indeed cutting back my play time.

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Yeah, right now the game is getting to kind of be in an odd "in between" state.

The core gameplay is kept steady for the base of longer time casual players but the difficulty balance seems to be increasingly built around pleasing the "cranky hardcore folks" with the result of seemingly everyone being at least a little dissatisfied instead ...

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I don't mind the repetitive aspect within an expansion, as to a large degree that is what gives an MMO its content

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It is standard MMO formula but I'm not convinced that it has to be this way and FF14 takes repetition to an even higher degree by relying so heavily on scripting. Designing content with some variation in mind would help so much. SE has done it in the smallest of ways with variant dungeons, but then let them fall to the side. It's a mindset more than anything.

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Originally Posted by Khiel

Who on the development team believes it’s fun to do the same Society Quests every single day?
Who thought it was engaging to constantly send players across the entire map just to collect objects?
Who considers it enjoyable to run the same dungeons over and over again just to get proper gear?
I’ve been running essentially the same dungeons for ten years.
And who thinks it’s fun that, as a SCH, my main gameplay loop is pressing Broil repeatedly?

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I hate to break it to you, but for better or worse, every single one of these is simply a core aspect of the MMO genre. I'll use WoW as an example since it's the biggest and most famous example. Every expansion features new groups that have daily quests for rep grinds (I remember doing that in BC 20 years ago). Quests that sent people around the world used to be praised, and there was much criticism when WoW revamped the zones and removed those epic questlines in favor of containing each zone within itself. Gearing up through endless dungeons is the entire philosophy behind M+.

And you can substitute pretty much any other game you want in there. SWTOR? Same deal. GW2? Yep. I'm most familiar with those two, so I'll say them with confidence. We may have differing opinions on whether each of us as individuals finds these kinds of things fun or not, but you seem to be acting as if this is somehow a new direction FFXIV has been taking when it's the direction the entire MMO genre has been taking for literally decades. If anything, FFXIV has adapted more than others by allowing today's modern MMO gamers (who are largely adults with families, full-time careers, and limited playtime) to still progress in gearing without needing to dungeon grind. Rep grinds only provide mounts and cosmetics, whereas in some games it's an important way to gear and you fall behind if you don't. Etc.

I've replied with a similar response in another thread, but the main issue, in my opinion, is the failure of Occult Crescent. OC was meant to provide the fun and to compensate for the monotonous tasks mentioned. However, it was a complete downgrade from previous field operations, and Forked Tower was simply not something that the average playerbase would want to do, let alone do it repeatedly. Since this group of players, which constitutes the vast majority of players, would typically not do savage, there is no content for them to actually do. Thus, OC is the main culprit.

Still having fun at Frontline Roulette.

It is so ironic that these types of threads always get started by former smn mains. I get it, you got robbed of your favorite job without a real replacement, but if you dont have fun in the game then you should just take a break or move on. For me personally raiding is the most fun it has ever been and i can only recommend it to everyone who is struggling to have fun in the game these days to try out the savage raids!

Fun? are you sure

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

For me personally raiding is the most fun it has ever been and i can only recommend it to everyone who is struggling to have fun in the game these days to try out the savage raids!

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If you're bored just play ultimates! :o

This game always lacked social interaction ever since I started playing it. Dungeons are "hi" and then hollow. Why? Because they are always predetermined how they are played, easily done, no multiple paths, nothing to worry about. Same as for roulette. In roulette you may occasionally see troll comments, kupo spammers or edgy erp comments. If you come to novice chat, 95% of it turned to global chat where erp is discussed and nothing else. God forbids that you ask for any help in novice chat as you get scolded by fake mentors who spend 1 hour explaining to you that they aren't your buddy to help you.

A lot of these has changed this game and made most new players "afraid" to even ask questions as many mentors can drive people to insanity or make them scared of "getting banned".
Only social interaction you might get is by afk-ing in limsa and hoping someone appreciates your char lmao. Which we all know that leads to.

In a serious matter, what would you do if you had done everything?

- Farm maps? Pointless if you have gil and everything. All you will get is yapping of "I never get anything", then "do 3x my maps because I have to go and won't stay for any of you later".
- Farm mounts via old extremes? Same story. Someone gets mount and it's: "ups, my aunt needs medicine". Happens very frequently.
- Do deep dungeon? Boring after you did a lot and then get met with toxicity and "you should play this how I demand it to be played".

But oh right... I forgot. I just had to do ultimates and that would have fixed my boredom of this game.

Edit: Just one hour of coming to another mmorpg and you already see constant social interaction, help requests and it's fun.

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

Dungeons are "hi" and then hollow. Why? Because they are always predetermined how they are played, easily done, no multiple paths, nothing to worry about

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Yeah, frontlines are way better for socializing. /s

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ask for any help in novice chat as you get scolded by fake mentors who spend 1 hour explaining to you that they aren't your buddy to help you.

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Until people post proof of this happening twice within a one month span, I will never believe this.

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most new players "afraid" to even ask questions as many mentors can drive people to insanity or make them scared of "getting banned".

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You're all about the socializing aspect, but there's all these terrible people in the game, yet FFXIV has been your main game?

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Only social interaction you might get is by afk-ing in limsa and hoping someone appreciates your char lmao

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Well, this isn't a very good strategy for socializing, just saying.

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In a serious matter, what would you do if you had done everything? Farm maps? Farm mounts? Do deep dungeon?

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Have you done /everything/?
Yeah, gil is too easy to make; they should make maps rewards market probihited. Maps are pretty boring, too, since there's no danger of failing at all and things die too quickly, so they should work on that.
I'm not sure why you're expecting people to stay in an extreme forever after they get their mount. Just put up the PF and go back in? People actually socialize quite a bit in extreme farm groups.
Deep dungeons are the worst content in this game, ngl. An entire game mode that revolves around avoiding as much combat as possible is boring. Also, isn't deep dungeon exactly what you wanted for dungeons? Multiple paths, plenty to worry about, not predetermined cause of room layouts and RNG mobs ... Sounds like the perfect content for you?

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Just one hour of coming to another mmorpg and you already see constant social interaction, help requests and it's fun.

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Which MMORPG? Go on, share all these good aspects of it, so that the devs can get feedback (they don't read these forums lmaeow)

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

It is so ironic that these types of threads always get started by former smn mains. I get it, you got robbed of your favorite job without a real replacement, but if you dont have fun in the game then you should just take a break or move on. For me personally raiding is the most fun it has ever been and i can only recommend it to everyone who is struggling to have fun in the game these days to try out the savage raids!

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86 words just to say not much at all..

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

86 words just to say not much at all..

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Maybe not much, but also not nothing.

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Originally Posted by Miradelle

Maybe not much, but also not nothing.

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The post boiled down to... "Don't like it? take a break", and savage raids is not really a solution to a game completely devoid of fun, it's not really any different to propose that people do 15,000 levequests, collect 20,000 Accursed Horde, do all Relics (inc., Luminary Tools) and 5,000 S-Rank hunts.

I get the earnestness of trying to propose people do savage raids, but, yeah, nothing was basically said...

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

The post boiled down to... "Don't like it? take a break", and savage raids is not really a solution to a game completely devoid of fun, it's not really any different to propose that people do 15,000 levequests, collect 20,000 Accursed Horde, do all Relics (inc., Luminary Tools) and 5,000 S-Rank hunts.

I get the earnestness of trying to propose people do savage raids, but, yeah, nothing was basically said...

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I counted 70 here..

Anyways, I'd say there's a lot more engagement included in savage content than any of those grindy options you presented. It's fine if you don't like savage, but it's definitely way different to recommend savage.

To me, if a game is "completely devoid of fun," I would stop playing it--it would be by far the most sensible solution. Or ... to try out something new in the game, especially if your complaint is that the playable content is too boring. Doesn't have to be savage, but I'd say it's the most exciting option out of the bunch.

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Originally Posted by Miradelle

I counted 70 here..

Anyways, I'd say there's a lot more engagement included in savage content than any of those grindy options you presented. It's fine if you don't like savage, but it's definitely way different to recommend savage.

To me, if a game is "completely devoid of fun," I would stop playing it--it would be by far the most sensible solution. Or ... to try out something new in the game, especially if your complaint is that the playable content is too boring. Doesn't have to be savage, but I'd say it's the most exciting option out of the bunch.

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It is highlighting why their post ultimately doesn't really say anything -- My example was simply pointing out this is what was going on in some instances where people were complaining about the content or lack thereof in Endwalker. It was not a genuine recommendation.

Since you've clearly misunderstood, let me put it like this... Suggesting that people take a break or quit the game in response to complaints does nothing to resolve those complaints, it shrinks an already shrinking player base further. Hence why it doesn't really say anything.

Many people have already tried savage, and have found out it is either not for them, or it doesn't offer what they are seeking, which is why it's largely an empty comment. It's no different from the "Why don't you go do this if you want engaging gameplay".

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

137 words.

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So, you're referring to situations in Endwalker, where people complained about lack of content, and they were told to do content that is not engaging ... and those people were not saying anything useful, because they were offering solutions in the form of non-engaging content, and that their recommendations weren't genuine in the first place? I still am seeing something different here ... savage is engaging content--not 15k levequests.

Okay, so the example was basically saying nothing. Gotcha. The problem here is that you, and the person you are responding to, are talking about two different things. The person you're responding to was responding to the OP's post, and was advicing individuals to take a break/try savage, not from the point of view of what is best for the game. Subscription decrease is definitely a stronger enforcer of change than what people here are suggesting to do.

Many people have also never tried savage, and are highly reluctant to try it for various reasons; OP didn't say they've done or not done savage. Considering how the person was offering individual advice, the solutions of "take a break or try something new" seem like the only two reasonable things to do.

people have a weird relationship with the game, they clearly dont enjoy it but telling them to maybe take a break or so is answered with so much negativity, game cant be that bad if you keep playing huh?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

It is highlighting why their post ultimately doesn't really say anything -- My example was simply pointing out this is what was going on in some instances where people were complaining about the content or lack thereof in Endwalker. It was not a genuine recommendation.

Since you've clearly misunderstood, let me put it like this... Suggesting that people take a break or quit the game in response to complaints does nothing to resolve those complaints, it shrinks an already shrinking player base further. Hence why it doesn't really say anything.

Many people have already tried savage, and have found out it is either not for them, or it doesn't offer what they are seeking, which is why it's largely an empty comment. It's no different from the "Why don't you go do this if you want engaging gameplay".

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Damn you wasted so many words to say even less than i did smh....

This game is more centered around raiding. It is what keeps you busy for the longest time. If you don't do savage or ultimate you obviously miss out on the best content this game has to offer. That is where the dev's effort goes. The game has only become more and more raiding centered in the past years, so obviously that is the direction they are taking.
And no the game is not devoid of fun for me personally. I have content that i enjoy a lot. Just because you might be skipping out on that content or don't enjoy it doesn't mean there is no fun to be had for others.
Challenge yourself, push your favorite jobs to their limits, optimize your rotations.
The game is not braindead easy as soon as you engage with the actual endgame.

And who even plays this game for social interaction? Most of the times your teammates are just a hinderance slowing you down.
Tanks not sprinting in dungeons, prog liars, people not knowing their rotations or how to optimize, people not being able to use their mitigations....

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

And who even plays this game for social interaction?

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https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...qFjl/giphy.gif

Do not visit balmung.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

Damn you wasted so many words to say even less than i did smh....

This game is more centered around raiding. It is what keeps you busy for the longest time. If you don't do savage or ultimate you obviously miss out on the best content this game has to offer. That is where the dev's effort goes. The game has only become more and more raiding centered in the past years, so obviously that is the direction they are taking.
And no the game is not devoid of fun for me personally. I have content that i enjoy a lot. Just because you might be skipping out on that content or don't enjoy it doesn't mean there is no fun to be had for others.
Challenge yourself, push your favorite jobs to their limits, optimize your rotations.
The game is not braindead easy as soon as you engage with the actual endgame.

And who even plays this game for social interaction? Most of the times your teammates are just a hinderance slowing you down.
Tanks not sprinting in dungeons, prog liars, people not knowing their rotations or how to optimize, people not being able to use their mitigations....

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The game well over a decade later is still trying to discover what it wants to be, I don't really think they have a clear direction in mind, and to be honest I would not be surprised if they rebounded in some ways... Just as we saw going from SB -> ShB, and then again from EW -> DT.

It's great that you have fun, really, but your idea of fun is not necessarily the same for everyone... Personally I've tried savage, did Eden's Verse, and came out of it feeling more relief for the fact it was over rather than the fact I cleared it and pushed myself, in a way that I hadn't since Final Coils of Bahamut.. Personally, I am not complaining about the game being easy or not. I just don't think in recent history it has been fun -- Hence why I find myself in Eureka far more than I do Occult.

Given it's an MMO, you will probably find there are far more people interested social interaction than there are not.. --> "Just because you don't relish in the idea of interacting with a community, or because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean there is no fun to be had for others."..

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Originally Posted by Miradelle

https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...qFjl/giphy.gif

Do not visit balmung.

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I don't think "social" interaction is the reason there xD

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

The game well over a decade later is still trying to discover what it wants to be, I don't really think they have a clear direction in mind, and to be honest I would not be surprised if they rebounded in some ways... Just as we saw going from SB -> ShB, and then again from EW -> DT.

It's great that you have fun, really, but your idea of fun is not necessarily the same for everyone... Personally I've tried savage, did Eden's Verse, and came out of it feeling more relief for the fact it was over rather than the fact I cleared it and pushed myself, in a way that I hadn't since Final Coils of Bahamut.. Personally, I am not complaining about the game being easy or not. I just don't think in recent history it has been fun -- Hence why I find myself in Eureka far more than I do Occult.

Given it's an MMO, you will probably find there are far more people interested social interaction than there are not.. --> "Just because you don't relish in the idea of interacting with a community, or because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean there is no fun to be had for others."..

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Well, i don't talk to strangers, strangers don't talk to me. Has been like this for over 12 years. Sometimes you do casual smalltalk with someone you meet in an extreme farm or something. That has been my general experience. I don't think this game is good for socializing at all. I do have friends in the game but i only meet with them to do ultimates and savage.

I just don't understand why you would keep playing a game that you don't find fun? If friends are the main reason you're playing then just play a game with them that is fun to all of you....

This might come across to you as not saying much, but i really mean it. Game won't just change over night. Stop playing, check again later, literally. I also spent a lot of time in eureka. That was peak content and i was hoping that OC would be more like eureka again, but the truth is that a lot of content is made with solo queue in mind and that people don't really want to communicate or strategize.

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Originally Posted by Miradelle

https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...qFjl/giphy.gif

Do not visit balmung.

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Nuke blamung

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I hate to break it to you, but for better or worse, every single one of these is simply a core aspect of the MMO genre. I'll use WoW as an example since it's the biggest and most famous example. Every expansion features new groups that have daily quests for rep grinds (I remember doing that in BC 20 years ago). Quests that sent people around the world used to be praised, and there was much criticism when WoW revamped the zones and removed those epic questlines in favor of containing each zone within itself. Gearing up through endless dungeons is the entire philosophy behind M+.

And you can substitute pretty much any other game you want in there. SWTOR? Same deal. GW2? Yep. I'm most familiar with those two, so I'll say them with confidence. We may have differing opinions on whether each of us as individuals finds these kinds of things fun or not, but you seem to be acting as if this is somehow a new direction FFXIV has been taking when it's the direction the entire MMO genre has been taking for literally decades. If anything, FFXIV has adapted more than others by allowing today's modern MMO gamers (who are largely adults with families, full-time careers, and limited playtime) to still progress in gearing without needing to dungeon grind. Rep grinds only provide mounts and cosmetics, whereas in some games it's an important way to gear and you fall behind if you don't. Etc.

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I think you're missing the point in what you'd quoted. Here, there is nothing between those mindless grinds (Daily Roulettes, Hunts for weekly tomestones, Society Quests, Exploratory Missions ending up as the same banal FATE-bound filler as anything else Open-world but without even the Hunts or side-quests stop it, Normal Raids once each per week, etc.) and Savage (likewise weekly) save for just Extreme Trials; even the likes of Chaotic and FT just repeat the same design issues that push many away from Savage, while Criterion Dungeons are tuned around already having Savage gear. There's no bridging difficulty settings between lowest and highest between each raid tier (whereas WoW has 2 extra therebetween), no variable difficulty open-world-ish content, no dungeon difficulty progressions (which WoW has in spades), etc. "Gearing up through endless dungeons" is hardly an issue when that task is tailorable and varied enough to nonetheless be enjoyable; it's then the gameplay people would gladly pay to skip to, rather than pay to skip.

And even if SWTOR and GW2 were to likewise just ping-pong us between talking to X NPC or picking Y flower or carrying Z crate, how does that lackluster quality being pervasive make it any less a wasted opportunity or a tax on the more enjoyable aspects of the game? There's a degree to which it's reasonable, yes, for giving a sense of time passing or allowing space for seemingly incidental side-conversation with a given character, but XIV too often surpasses such opportunities in its use of those filler tasks.

And what is this "FFXIV has adapted more than others by allowing today's modern MMO gamers (who are largely adults with families, full-time careers, and limited playtime) to still progress in gearing without needing to dungeon grind"? It's no more or less necessary than any other MMO. And rep grinds being necessary for gear progression is the outlier, not the norm, except in games where those rep grinds tend to support horizontal progression and/or include the same vertical progression as our tome-grinds anyways and their tasks, themselves, tend to be more interesting than herding sheep.

Finally, we don't even have to look at a different MMO to find examples of healer downtime gameplay offering more engagement than just that of "as a SCH, my main gameplay loop is pressing Broil repeatedly". The game even launched with healers having comparatively far more involved offensive kits (as portion of total) than they have today. Even if I didn't have a more interesting experience available to me as a support in WoW or GW2, etc., that'd still be an obviously wasted opportunity and a decrease even from the fun we used to have based even just off what we've seen from this game before.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

Well, i don't talk to strangers, strangers don't talk to me. Has been like this for over 12 years. Sometimes you do casual smalltalk with someone you meet in an extreme farm or something. That has been my general experience. I don't think this game is good for socializing at all. I do have friends in the game but i only meet with them to do ultimates and savage.

I just don't understand why you would keep playing a game that you don't find fun? If friends are the main reason you're playing then just play a game with them that is fun to all of you....

This might come across to you as not saying much, but i really mean it. Game won't just change over night. Stop playing, check again later, literally. I also spent a lot of time in eureka. That was peak content and i was hoping that OC would be more like eureka again, but the truth is that a lot of content is made with solo queue in mind and that people don't really want to communicate or strategize.

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Generally, perhaps... Though we have got facets of content in the game where socializing is pretty good.. Even when doing Eureka with a friend, spent a lot of time just chatting with other players in there.. It's a lot more difficult in Occult with how on-the-rails it is.. But even outside of content, social interaction does happen a lot for players that do want to seek it out.

I wouldn't say my thoughts on not finding the game fun are universal across the entire space of the game, just the content in recent history, again, why I spend far more time in Eureka than I do in Occult or most other content spaces for that matter -- and then much of the incentive to actively play is mostly built around the friends I am playing with versus the content itself.. I have this same 'thing' with other games, where most of the incentive is 'who' I am playing with and not necessarily what I am playing (Which seems to be a difficult idea for some). Had the same with Astroneer, 7 Days to Die, and Dead by Daylight... Where I didn't exactly enjoy them, but a bit of banter with friends? Sure.

I don't doubt your intent, I just don't really think it adds or solves anything (Hence why I say not saying much... Or anything).. Many players are already patiently waiting between opaque developer comments.. Which they have done a lot of since Endwalker complaints, and funnily enough, for players that aren't here for extrinsic reasons (e.g., social-related), this expansion will probably be that 'straw'... For me the Eureka element is less about strategize and more about... It doesn't try to tell you how you should play it.. It leave a pretty big degree of freedom (The reason I still find it fun).

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

This game is more centered around raiding. It is what keeps you busy for the longest time. If you don't do savage or ultimate you obviously miss out on the best content this game has to offer.

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Highly subjective tbh. I know people who ONLY do hunts and they’ll tell you that’s the best content in the game. A lot of players don’t have the time or energy for savage/ultimate, and that’s fine. I raid too, but I wouldn’t call it the best content. Raiders have been eating pretty well this expansion tbh, savages as always, ultimate(s), CoD, Forked Tower, Quantum, etc. Whether you count all of that as raid content/eating good or not, it’s still content aimed at the same side of the playerbase. Meanwhile a big chunk of the casual side got very little, and what they did get feels extremely undercooked.

Everyone pays their sub, so everyone gets to have opinions on what they want out of the game. Acting like only raiding matters is simply ignoring how much casual players contribute too. If casuals disappear, so does a lot of mog Station money, and less money means fewer resources for raids. We’re all part of the same 'ecosystem' pretending one side is more valid doesn’t really work here.

And since other people were talking about MMOs and socializing: the game honestly doesn’t give you many reasons to be social unless you go out of your way. MSQ is solo for hours on end, PF barely talks, hunts are Discord, Forked Tower/CoD...etc is Discord, Cosmic Exploration has no real interaction, dungeons are "hi/gg" and you can’t even reply to friends mid‑duty. I love the game, I’ve got tons of goals (currently suffering through Big Fishing), but the whole “it’s an MMO so be social” argument doesn’t match how the game actually plays for most content. Maybe it’s a cultural thing, and in JP people talk way more in game and not over discord, idk.

And the game also only has "MMO grinds" of which most are so out of touch that it's actual insanity. 1000 carrots in OC, the hunts, what is it, 10000 hoards? There's plenty more, but yeah, I kinda don't mind the hoard or leve one, it takes time, but grinds that are either RNG (carrots) or actively punish you for having a job and sleeping just feel bad to me, idk. I did the Diadem and that was a grind I don't mind because I could do it at any point, any time, for however long I wanted without dealing with RNG or timers.

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

This game is more centered around raiding. It is what keeps you busy for the longest time. If you don't do savage or ultimate you obviously miss out on the best content this game has to offer. That is where the dev's effort goes. The game has only become more and more raiding centered in the past years, so obviously that is the direction they are taking.

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What an interesting view, if just a tad narrow.

Glad you enjoy raiding though!

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Originally Posted by Kishin12345

The game is not braindead easy as soon as you engage with the actual endgame.

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Certainly, but that also depends on what you enjoy getting challenged on and what you don't.
You speak about rotations to optimize for example, but they're in fact literally braindead for the most part. Jobs are all the same, play all the same, and encounter design is all about one single thing—and it's not its battle system.