Mentor Status Requirements need to change

I just recently hit 4k hours in the game last week and while ive been playing for arguably very long ive barely reached 700 comms, as a mostly DPS only player who also spends most of my time doing High End Duties i barely get any comms, despite only having gatherer/crafter mentor i really enjoy helping people on novice network but i am currently locked out of doing mentor roulettes + the new player/mentor exp boost due to the insane requirements while people who've played the game a lot less manage to achieve it simply by playing healer or tank.
The current system is extremely unfarovable for DPS players and raiders who do stuff on PF.

Working as intended, honestly. I would imagine DPS-only PF raiders aren't the ideal demographic for combat Mentors, because they don't interact with the subset of players that Mentors are intended to help, that being sprouts who don't know how to tank or heal well.

I guarantee you'll get another 300 comms in the process of leveling one or two more of your hitherto-unleveled tanks or healers to 100.

Agreed. Being a mentor is about helping people, and it’s quite different from being good at high end content. Spend an extended amount of time tanking or especially healing duty roulettes with random players, and you’ll have your 1500 commendations.

I honestly believe they need to change mentor requirements as well, but not in the way you're suggesting. The requirements should be -more- strict, not less. Mentors have an absolutely abhorrent reputation because the current requirements don't require you to really understand the game at all. Coms are dumped on you if you tank/heal or have a cute/sexy character portrait and just leveling jobs is meaningless. I've met a hilarious amount of players who have gotten absolutely awful advice from mentors. We need an actual vetting process.

feels like i get comms every other instance as a healer or tank

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Selsix

I honestly believe they need to change mentor requirements as well, but not in the way you're suggesting. The requirements should be -more- strict, not less. Mentors have an absolutely abhorrent reputation because the current requirements don't require you to really understand the game at all. Coms are dumped on you if you tank/heal or have a cute/sexy character portrait and just leveling jobs is meaningless. I've met a hilarious amount of players who have gotten absolutely awful advice from mentors. We need an actual vetting process.

---

I would support this. I don’t know what such a vetting process would look like, but we need mentors who both know how act as nurturing teachers to sprouts, and know how to play well. Leveling jobs and completing role quests don’t really mean anything in themselves, and getting 1500 commendations says that you’ve made a decent impression with a lot of people in the Duty Finder, but it doesn’t say you’re teacher material.

Have you leveled all tanks and all healers using exclusively roulettes? If not, that's probably why; leveling them via DF gives you the variety of experiences they intend you to have.

I get commendations as a DPS so I suggest trying to stand out more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GraceHorizon

I would support this. I don’t know what such a vetting process would look like, but we need mentors who both know how act as nurturing teachers to sprouts, and know how to play well. Leveling jobs and completing role quests don’t really mean anything in themselves, and getting 1500 commendations says that you’ve made a decent impression with a lot of people in the Duty Finder, but it doesn’t say you’re teacher material.

---

This is asking for something that only a handful of players could realistically do... Like, the ability to play well does not always translate into teacher material either (not saying you were claiming this), but even people very good and experienced at the game still give awful advise, which isn't something exclusive to people that lack understanding.

and beyond a certain point that experienced and knowledgeable player is more than likely just going to act as a signpost to guides.

The comm requirement doesn't make much sense, no. It's time gating and nothing else. They should at the very least revert the requirement to the original value, which was something like 300.

Mentors are supposed to be players willing to help. That is by far the most important quality for the role and it's essentially self selecting if not for the attempt to bribe players into mentoring through rewards.

The best change that I can think of is to lower the player requirements and remove all rewards from mentoring to make it about players helping players.

I have somehow manged to obtain 2,539 commendations as a primarily DPS player and I don't even know how, I'm not actually THAT good and would avoid Mentor roulette like the plague because I could never do an Extreme while synced, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Selsix

I honestly believe they need to change mentor requirements as well, but not in the way you're suggesting. The requirements should be -more- strict, not less. Mentors have an absolutely abhorrent reputation because the current requirements don't require you to really understand the game at all. Coms are dumped on you if you tank/heal or have a cute/sexy character portrait and just leveling jobs is meaningless. I've met a hilarious amount of players who have gotten absolutely awful advice from mentors. We need an actual vetting process.

---

i dont mind them being harder yeah, the problem really is locking them behind an abhorent amount of good boy points that have nothing to do beyond being a littel funny during an MSQ roulette

I wonder would there be a way for the game to track which role you are when you're getting a commendation to change it that you need certain amounts of comms as each role to qualify as a mentor.

I raid and I play DPS and I still managed to get the comms just fine while getting my Outrunner. If you haven't played enough healers/tanks in roulette to get enough comms while also not standing out enough in roulettes, OP, that's a sign you're not ready to, well, mentor people. I usually commend the DPS with the highest aggro generation (if the healers and tanks are just being warm bodies and not doing anything interesting/aren't optimizing), since that tends to be a decent indicator of the highest DPS, and then adjust for how mich avoidable damage they take. Skill issue on OP's part, basically.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

I wonder would there be a way for the game to track which role you are when you're getting a commendation to change it that you need certain amounts of comms as each role to qualify as a mentor.

---

That would likely get people angry that the DPS aren't being commed. And, given battle mentors aren't there to teach people how to press their buttons right but to answer basic questions about the PVE content of the game, in the case of Mentor Roulette, adequately backfill any duty EX or below while having some basic familiarity with the content, it doesn't really matter what role mentors get their comms on. A battle mentor that never touched a tank or healer job stone (hypothetically--battle mentors can't be battle mentors if they do that) can still tell other players about stack markers and raidwides and what tankbusters are, what kind of stuff could use mitigation, where to stand for a mech if they're feeling generous.

The requirement that a battle mentor have a tank, dps, and healer leveled and are familiar with them enough to finish the role quests seems like it'd be enough for the basics.

Some mentors go the extra mile and are willing to teach other players how to better play their roles, but that's not an expectation of battle mentors the game makes.

...On the other hand, the PVP Mentor status requirements should be looked at!

It's not too interesting for mentor rous really since mostly you get lvl 50 dungeons/trials and often MSQ too...

Also, you don't need to heal and tank everything forever now since I got 2k comms, and I only started support jobs in Stb but in the past I mostly played DPS jobs before I unlocked mentor status.

I don't know why they felt raising the amount of comms from 300 to 1500 in ShB. There is already a 1000 instances requirement that became essentially obsolete now with all those comms being required.

Basic requirements for NN and sprout guidance is a willingness to help in multiple ways first and foremost, which includes literally everything: basic questions on how to unlock your chocobo, to quest questions, to more advanced pve or even pvp help, to crafting, to just providing a social experience and welcome for new players since most are looking before all for a social circle of friends and a welcoming environment that they don't have yet, so technically for the latter which is the most important, you don't even need any in game achievement or qualification at all, it's just general human qualifications. NN overall is a huge onboarding vector for new players and it doesn't exactly rely on mentors knowing what hector strat you should use to clear the latest savage tier or ultimate.

And frankly on any NN you'll have all kinds of mentor profiles anyway: ikea mentors that are just sprouts in disguise that want to stay on the chat (and people may laugh but they do provide that friendly social environment for new players since they care about the channel enough to stay there), pve mentors, mentors with a lot of mechanical knowledge, gold saucer mentors, mentors that are actually housing experts... You'll always have one or the other that can chime in and help in their specific field of expertise.

As for Mentor roulette content, just having to have all EX trials unlocked is already enough to ensure those mentors have actually cleared that kind of content, and even if they can unsync most of those, it's another story for the newest ones.

Agree. When I started I used to msg "mentors" asking questions and always got replies like "Oh this is for show." They would ignore or reply they do not help new players. I had to google ALL info. Not stupid or easy info questions about raids etc. It isn't really a mentoring system they just see it as a status symbol which is stupid. Make them help so many people every 3 months (like 10 have to rate they helped them or something) to keep that status. It would make the game better to have a better informed community.

Try obnoxious macros of his and hellos before and after the duty. I always commend those LOL

Just farm guildhests like everyone else. Make sure it's the one with Bockman, and every mentor who ends up there through mentor roulette will give you a commend. Just shamelessly go "I'm queueing this for commends" and they will be incentivized to commend you.

You'll have 1500 in no time.

There's too many mentors that just want a chat room.
The requirements should be much higher imo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Selsix

The requirements should be -more- strict, not less.

---

Lock mentor status behind the savage tier, at least the full crown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miradelle

Lock mentor status behind the savage tier, at least the full crown.

---

There isn't really a point to that. The main feature of the mentor system is getting access to the Novice Network to answer questions that sprouts have. They typically asks questions that do not require Savage-level knowledge, such as:

• "how do I repair my gear?"
• "where do I buy gysahl greens?"
• "how can I get better gear?" (as in poetic gear or opening quest coffers, not endgame gear)
• "why do I not see the quest icon that I'm supposed to see?" (they typically began the quests already years ago)

Sometimes they ask about their rotation, but typically these players are level 15, level 50 or level 70. I've seen many obnoxious raid-centric mentors answer with a full description of the max level opener and a link to The Balance discord and Savage raiding advice... like, for sprouts that just need to know the basics. They aren't ready to do an optimized opener; they barely understand how to do their 1-2-3 rotation, and don't have access to most abilities the mentor is talking about...

It's also not necessary to have raided the latest tier to understand how raiding works in FFXIV, so it would make more sense to just say "have any Extreme or Savage achievement from the current expansion", because then they have a rough idea of what High-End raid mechanics are like. That is plenty of knowledge to be able to explain to someone how High-End content works (in a general sense).

I do think the requirements should be more strict though, of course. All jobs should be maxed, all role quests, and for crafters they should have all crafters and gatherers leveled with achievements indicating lots of crafts and sales on the market board.

For what it's worth, most battle mentors have all jobs leveled and most trade mentors have all crafters/gatherers leveled, and a lot of mentors have done High-End content at some point if not still doing it - making the requirements more strict would just make sure people don't get these status before doing these things, which results in speedrunning the trade mentor status.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

There isn't really a point to that.

---

Well, a sprout could just as well have a question about ultimates/savage. I had a sprout ask the other day where they can redeem the Weapon's Refrain (Ultimate) totem. Just as likely someone could ask about rotational stuff about Weapon's Refrain (Ultimate), since it is not high level content.

Quote:

---

Sometimes they ask about their rotation, but typically these players are level 15, level 50 or level 70. I've seen many obnoxious raid-centric mentors answer with a full description of the max level opener and a link to The Balance discord and Savage raiding advice... like, for sprouts that just need to know the basics.

---

This would've been so useful for when I was a sprout. The balance has all the information I need, instead of 3-5 mentors all giving contradictory (and often inaccurate) information about rotations. Half the mentors I see in experts do less damage than me, on white mage.

Quote:

---

It's also not necessary to have raided the latest tier to understand how raiding works in FFXIV

---

How do you know? It's like saying I don't need to go into PF and raid to be able to say people are overblowing the PF issues.

Quote:

---

"have any Extreme or Savage achievement from the current expansion"

---

It feels like a lot of people want to make mentor requirements tighter, but only to a point that THEY THEMSELVES have achieved, "Make it harder ... nooo, not like that!"

Quote:

---

That is plenty of knowledge to be able to explain to someone how High-End content works (in a general sense).

---

I would rather have someone who is a much more trustful source of information be a battle mentor, than someone who was dragged through the latest extreme with 12 deaths, because it has no DPS check. It's not like I'd go to the dentist to a guy that has done a few months at med school.

Quote:

---

All jobs should be maxed, all role quests

---

This provides absolutely zero value, though. Role quests are just story, not any kind of battle knowledge. You can level all your jobs through MSQ roulette to 100 and never leave lvl 50 content--it's what most people do for jobs they don't want to play, but want the 100s achievement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miradelle

I had a sprout ask the other day where they can redeem the Weapon's Refrain (Ultimate) totem.

---

That definitely isn't a normal question in the Novice Network, and have never seen it despite crossing worlds and data centers to see the questions in other networks.

Quote:

---

Just as likely someone could ask about rotational stuff about Weapon's Refrain (Ultimate), since it is not high level content.

---

What one mentor doesn't know, another will. That's the intention of the system, and it works very well. One of the mentors in the Novice Network will know about Weapons Refrain under the current system (usually, multiple people do).

Quote:

---

This would've been so useful for when I was a sprout.

---

Alright, but consider that not everyone would be able to handle the overload from The Balance (or a quote from it). Many people that do the MSQ are the partner of a "gamer" and not very good at games themselves ie. a person's wife or husband that was dragged into playing the game, when they never used computers/consoles much prior.

Some people who do the MSQ are not very technical types - they aren't the sort of people that can handle "systems" and "engineering" (ie. computers, science, maths, programming, and yes, optimizing an MMORPG build).

When I help sprouts I am aware that some people have a brain that can handle that sort of stuff, and are hungry for stuff like The Balance. But I am equally aware that many are not, and cater my advice to what they indicate they can handle at that point in their journey.

Quote:

---

How do you know?

---

I mean, people rarely ask about the current tier. Here is why. Sprouts almost universally exit the Novice Network prior to beating the current expansion MSQ. Returners are typically asking how to gear up for the current Savage tier or how to find the quest for the latest MSQ chapter, so they can get ready for Savage, but by the time they are doing Savage itself they don't tend to be talking in there.

And once again, in the rare event someone does ask about the current tier, what one mentor doesn't know, another will and that's by design. SE knows that not everyone will know everything, so there are multiple mentors.

SE also knows that time is everything. By the time someone has filled the battle requirements, usually they have done some kind of High-End content and can explain what the difference is between normal content and High-End content.

Quote:

---

I would rather have someone who is a much more trustful source of information be a battle mentor

---

Most battle mentors have honestly played for years. I just support making them tighter to make sure it is years. Because years of play usually equals knowledge and experience. That years of experience is value, and it's why most of the issues come from trade mentors that got the status too quickly (as a sprout).

Quote:

---

This provides absolutely zero value, though. Role quests are just story, not any kind of battle knowledge.

---

That's actually not true of the role quests that I remember since Shadowbringers. The role quests test your healing ability (if you don't heal, Esuna, etc, you fail it). If you don't do mechanics as a DPS you fail it. If you don't use Interrupt etc as a tank you fail it. All of which people frequently say should be taught to everyone, but at least they get mentors to go through it. I'm not saying it's hard to do those things, but if you don't do those basic things the battles tend to get failed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That definitely isn't a normal question in the Novice Network

---

I've never seen a sprout ask where to get, or even know what gysahl greens are.

Quote:

---

What one mentor doesn't know, another will.

---

Not if there is no requirement to know it. You could just as well say this for the current state, so there's no need to make it more time-extensive when it won't make more informed/experienced mentors.

Quote:

---

Alright, but consider that not everyone would be able to handle the overload from The Balance

---

That's what you'd have mentors for, they'd explain it to you step-by-step.

Quote:

---

Some people who do the MSQ are not very technical types

---

They're not also the ones asking for help with rotations. You can freestyle a rotation just fine, you don't actually need to chain combos together or press oGCDs.

Quote:

---

SE knows that not everyone will know everything, so there are multiple mentors.

---

So, what's the point of making the requirement more strict? Not even in a meaningful way that improves the knowledge/experience level of a mentor.

Quote:

---

I mean, people rarely ask about the current tier. Here is why

---

No, I'm asking how do you KNOW "to understand how raiding works in FFXIV," if you've never done it?

Quote:

---

Most battle mentors have honestly played for years.

---

Completely, and utterly, meaningless. If you spend those years doing nothing that will test your knowledge and make you more experienced, then absolutely meaningless.

Quote:

---

The role quests test your healing ability (if you don't heal, Esuna, etc, you fail it).

---

Brah .. come on.

If you want to gatekeep mentor status, then don't draw the line selfishly at what you personally have already achieved. If you think SQE should make mentor status more strict to achieve, then accept that it might mean you have to aspire harder for it yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miradelle

I've never seen a sprout ask where to get, or even know what gysahl greens are.

---

Oddly I have seen it many times over the years. Because they need to know how to get their chocobo to fight with them. But point is a lot of questions are about quests and very basic stuff you do at the start of the game.

Quote:

---

Not if there is no requirement to know it.

---

It's statistics and I have years upon years of experience talking to mentors so I know for a fact there is always someone in the Novice Network that has done Savage and realistically, some of them have done Ultimates and are not afraid to talk about it in those networks.

Quote:

---

That's what you'd have mentors for, they'd explain it to you step-by-step.

---

The issue is information overload. The step-by-step generally needs to be a few steps per day or per week, because it takes time to digest for many new players. That's why it only makes sense to explain the 1-2-3 and most basic stuff, not the sort of stuff you're doing as an opener in Savage at level 100. And that's why in practice answers to questions that sprouts have rarely need knowledge of what you're doing in Savage at level 100.

Quote:

---

No, I'm asking how do you KNOW "to understand how raiding works in FFXIV," if you've never done it?

---

That's why I said "any Extreme or Savage" in the current expansion. It gives you a sense of the difference in how the mechanics differ. Different telegraphing, combining mechanics, etc. While yes, they could have just done a 1 pull prog of Everkeep ex, it's still ultimately better than any High-End duty from previous expansions because you can just solo a lot of them quickly.

If the requirement was "current Savage tier" then you're looking at a lot of people suddenly losing it every tier for no reason and there being a massive shortage of mentors for weeks, when not many questions even pertain to it.

Quote:

---

Completely, and utterly, meaningless. If you spend those years doing nothing that will test your knowledge and make you more experienced, then absolutely meaningless.

---

While true, it doesn't make much sense to spend years playing the game and do nothing and learn nothing, so usually time means knowledge in most cases.

Quote:

---

If you want to gatekeep mentor status, then don't draw the line selfishly at what you personally have already achieved. If you think SQE should make mentor status more strict to achieve, then accept that it might mean you have to aspire harder for it yourself.

---

Well the point is I don't want them to gatekeep it in that specific way. It doesn't make much sense when almost no sprout questions pertain to it or require raiding knowledge in any way, shape or form.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It's statistics and I have years upon years of experience talking to mentors so I know for a fact there is always someone in the Novice Network that has done Savage and realistically, some of them have done Ultimates and are not afraid to talk about it in those networks.

---

Yet we can't find a mentor who has gone through the rigorous training of pressing esuna and interject? Why does explaining how to navigate The Balance, and click on your job in the discord to bring up the GCD timeline require a week of instruction?

Quote:

---

That's why it only makes sense to explain the 1-2-3 and most basic stuff, not the sort of stuff you're doing as an opener in Savage at level 100

---

We need mentors to have all lvl 100s and do every role quest, and have years of experience for explaining how to 123?

Quote:

---

While yes, they could have just done a 1 pull prog of Everkeep ex, it's still ultimately better than any High-End duty from previous expansions because you can just solo a lot of them quickly.

---

I'm not sure how this translates to someone being considered knowledgeable enough to be warranted the "mentor" status, if we're interested in increasing the quality of mentors. Going to just agree to disagree, especially this tier.

Quote:

---

Then you're looking at a lot of people suddenly losing it every tier for no reason and there being a massive shortage of mentors for weeks

---

Good? Quality over quantity, right?

Quote:

---

It doesn't make much sense to spend years playing the game and do nothing and learn nothing

---

I agree. It doesn't make sense, but most mentors literally have been playing for years. We have some people like that in this post, like the person I originally responded to, to make savage the requirement for mentorship. They seem to think mentors are too trash and give horrible advice these days, yet from what I've heard, they aren't particularly exceptional or engaging in any content. Gosh, not even 100 on every job!

Personally, I think the mentor system is fine as it is; people put way too much emphasis on the mentor status. 1500 commends is more than enough time for you to know how to 123, and pass that info down. And if they don't, like you said, there's going to be a mentor that knows how to do that ... so why alter the requirements? Sure, they might give wrong rotational advice, but most of the people here probably would do that anyways.

Quote:

---

Well the point is I don't want them to gatekeep it in that specific way. It doesn't make much sense when almost no sprout questions pertain to it or require raiding knowledge in any way, shape or form.

---

Just funny how people oddly conveniently shape the requirements as something THEY are comfortable with, or have achieved already, and make a barrier like "ALL 100 LEVELS, 5000 hours played!!" when that teaches you absolutely nothing vast majority of the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miradelle

Lock mentor status behind the savage tier, at least the full crown.

---

Why? What purpose would this serve?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I do think the requirements should be more strict though, of course. All jobs should be maxed, all role quests, and for crafters they should have all crafters and gatherers leveled with achievements indicating lots of crafts and sales on the market board.

---

What purpose would this serve? Besides making mentor roulette even harder to unlock and thus making it so even fewer people are able to use it for its intended purpose of providing basic knowledgeable fills for the rest of the roulettes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Most battle mentors have honestly played for years. I just support making them tighter to make sure it is years. Because years of play usually equals knowledge and experience. That years of experience is value, and it's why most of the issues come from trade mentors that got the status too quickly (as a sprout).

---

Playing for years might also mean having not done the MSQ in years, making it harder to ask questions that sprouts tend to ask. "Why can't I complete this quest?" etc. More strict requirements simply don't make better mentors. The willingness to help is the most important factor there is and you can't translate that into a level or experience requirement.

Quote:

---

That's actually not true of the role quests that I remember since Shadowbringers. The role quests test your healing ability (if you don't heal, Esuna, etc, you fail it). If you don't do mechanics as a DPS you fail it. If you don't use Interrupt etc as a tank you fail it. All of which people frequently say should be taught to everyone, but at least they get mentors to go through it. I'm not saying it's hard to do those things, but if you don't do those basic things the battles tend to get failed.

---

I doubt that these matter much. You can clear them and then just kind of forget them The latest healer rolequest doesn't even require Esuna really. You can outheal all the dots I'm pretty sure, which is technically better than using Esuna in most cases in actual content since healer resources are so high and most effects aren't threatening outside of doom.