Summoner Questionnaire

It's been over 4 years since old Summoner was Old Yellered, how is everyone feeling about its replacement?

I made a little questionnaire for anyone interested in giving their input: [link removed to collect results, see next post]

I'm working on a rework of sorts for fun and am curious to know what others would like to see.

Here are the questions in case you would rather just reply here:

1. How are you enjoying Summoner in Dawntrail?

• A: It's Perfect!
• B: I like it but it could be better
• C: The design is good but it needs a lot of work
• D: It needs a complete rework, something new
• E: I wish it was still a dot mage

2. How many summons should Summoner have?

• A: We have too many now, I want less
• B: What we have is perfect
• C: A few more would be nice
• D: A dozen or so sounds cool
• E: ALL OF THE SUMMONS

3. Would you prefer summons as pets or something else?

• A: I prefer temporary "pets" in combat like Bahamut and Phoenix
• B: I want my summon of choice to follow me everywhere and do my bidding like the oden days (minus the ghosting)
• C: Just give me big flashy attacks like Ifrit/Titan/Garuda, I don't want a pet

4. Should Summoner have a rezz?

• A: Yes
• B: No
• C: Situationally
• D: Only if it becomes a role action

5. How simple or complex would you prefer Summoner to be?

• A: I want the job to play itself
• B: Simple - Maybe a couple decisions to make, nothing too punishing
• C: Moderate - I just want to feel like I earn my output
• D: Complex - I want a struggle to overcome
• E: Punish me harder Yoshi-senpai

6. Do you prefer building up to or opening with powerful summons like Bahamut?

• A: Build up with the potential for loss of progress on death
• B: Build up without punishment for death
• C: Build up but with a way to speed it up for the opener
• D: It's my Bahamut and I want it now

7. How do you feel demi summons are being handled? (pick any number)

• A: Just fine, thank you
• B: I wish I could choose between them
• C: They don't feel impactful enough
• D: I need more Bahamuts!
• E: I would like more variety

8. Do you enjoy the mini-rotations of current summons?

• A: Yes, they're great
• B: Yes but I wish there was more to them
• C: Only certain summons should have their own rotations so they feel more special
• D: No, I prefer more consistency

9. Would you rather cycle through summons or focus on one?

• A: I want to see every summon as much as possible
• B: I want to cycle through a few but not always the same ones
• C: I want to pick the best / my favorite one and stick with it

10. How do you feel about having summons like Shiva or non-primals like Diabolos?

• A: Don't care, give me anything/everything
• B: They don't make sense in the lore, so no
• C: As long as they can be made to make sense, sure

It bugged out on the fourth step, gave me just a "choice 1", and then said thank you after that.

1) A fusion of D and E. It’s old design wasn’t perfect but I’d prefer DOT’s to no DOT’s

2) A fusion of A and B. I want lore that supports why we are limited summons like ARR but as the WOL gets stronger I don’t mind it expanding

3) B

4) A

5) D. I don’t think anyone thought job should lack the ability to give meaningful complexity if you want it, low floor high ceiling should be the design of every job

6) A. The game serious lacks ramper’s as a DPS category

7) N/A, Demi’s should be deleted (seraph included), if forced to pick an answer then C

8) B

9) Closest answer is B, I want a summon to fit a design niche so when you need that niche that’s the summon you use

10) B. Everything must start with lore

For my replieds:

1: B
2: C
3: C (this feels the most FF-summoner-y, tbh)
4: A (or C, if coupled to Phoenix, I mean that's what it does!)
5: B
6: A
7: C
8: B
9: A (with the caveat that my favorite solution gives you "sets" of minors at random, you can pick the order between the three, but not which set-of-3 you get offered)
10: A

1. How are you enjoying Summoner in Dawntrail?
B+E: I like it but it could be better and could keep the DoTs

Comparing to the ShB SMN, I like how we don't need to stand still during Demi-summons to make them do their job, but I wish we could have kept the DoTs (no not refreshing with Tri-Disaster).

2. How many summons should Summoner have?
C: A few more would be nice

I don't think we need to be able to summon a lot, that might be for Beastmaster but certainly having Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva would be nice.

3. Would you prefer summons as pets or something else?
A+B: I prefer Bahamut and Phoenix as temporary pets in combat but only if we have Dreadwyrm/Firebird Trance where we build-up towards the temporary pets, and have my summon of choice to follow me everywhere and do my bidding like the oden days (minus the ghosting, funny how they improved the pet AI in EW but only SCH can enjoy the new AI).

4. Should Summoner have a rezz?[LIST]
A: Yes

Perhaps it would be nice to keep Resurrect as it is from Lv1, then introduce a trait at a certain level to convert the spell into an ability with an appropriate cooldown.

5. How simple or complex would you prefer Summoner to be?
A: I want the job to play itself

I don't mind the job be simple or punishing, simply can't like the emptiness we currently have.

6. Do you prefer building up to or opening with powerful summons like Bahamut?
B: Build up without punishment for death (time loss)

As mentioned above, I liked the concept of Dreadwyrm/Firebird Trance.

7. How do you feel demi summons are being handled? (pick any number)
A: Just fine except Solar Bahamut, thank you but I want to see Phoenix more often.

8. Do you enjoy the mini-rotations of current summons?
A+D: Yes, they're great but I don't mind the ShB way of consistently either.

9. Would you rather cycle through summons or focus on one?
D: I want to pick the best for the situation.

10. How do you feel about having summons like Shiva or non-primals like Diabolos?
C: As long as they can be made to make sense, sure

1. C: The design is good but it needs a lot of work
Like the idea a lot but it needs to be more fleshed out and added to. As is, it's essentially the same job from like level 40ish until 100 when there's so much room to grow and add to it.


2. C: A few more would be nice
It would be great if there was a full rotation of different summons where you needed to actually choose what to summon based on the fight you're actually in at the moment. Still have the "3 minor summons per cycle" stipulation but have what 3 summons you use be up to the player, so maybe double the amount of summons we currently have or something in that ballpark

3. C: Just give me big flashy attacks like Ifrit/Titan/Garuda, I don't want a pet
I'm honestly just fine with Carby but would have no issues with having your chosen summon in mini form be able to follow you around. I'm more concerned with combat performance and play style than cosmetics outside of combat in this regard

4. C: Situationally
I don't think they NEED a rez, but don't really mind if they have one at all. If they do, however, it would be better to make it actually thematic to the job like being able to use Phoenix or some other healing/curative/defensive based summon to do it (and maybe only being able to do it when that summon is out)

5. C: Moderate - I just want to feel like I earn my output
I don't mind SMN being an "easier" job, but it just needs more variety and variability so that it's not completely braindead. Let it be "easy" for those who want that but allow for some decision making and skill expression from those who know the job better like being able to smartly choose what to summon in certain scenarios instead of just basically rolling through what the game gives you

6. C: Build up but with a way to speed it up for the opener
I do always prefer needing to build, but a speedier start is almost essential for the way the game works right now (though of course being out of that whole build/spend 2 min cycle would be nice overall)

7. B: I wish I could choose between them
As already said above, I don't hate the current system but would want to be able to choose between the things I summon to match the conditions of the combat encounter instead of being locked into a (relatively) set rotation. More summons would be great too, of course, but at least having more choice would be an improvement

8. B: Yes but I wish there was more to them
Again, the concept is fine but we need more options and variety (and choice). I think the ones we have already function relatively uniquely for how limited they are, but we just need more

9. B: I want to cycle through a few but not always the same ones
Again, allow choice and diversity based on encounter (with much more than what we have). I could see being able to focus on one but it feels that might lock the job into a singular flow that essentially just mimics other jobs. Summoner should be more choice driven and not even less.

10. C: As long as they can be made to make sense, sure
I don't mind them pulling from wherever as long as it makes sense. Shiva could be a bit of a stretch for sure though. Of course, this would also include at least some sort of quest or something to explain what's going on (bring job quests back plz)

1B. I really like the flow of the rework, and the burst feels good. It’s the repetition that bugs me, which leads to…

2C. I don’t expect to see every summon of the franchise, but at bare minimum I want the core elements. The gem system is perfect for adding new triads of summons without fear of button bloat, but instead they keep giving us more Demis with nothing new in between, just lengthening the repetition. At the very least give us Levi, Shiva and Ramuh to alternate with Ifrit, Titan and Garuda.

3C. The idea of summons as “pets” has always struck me as odd. It doesn’t fit the lore of this game, let alone most of the others in the series.

4A. Lorewise it makes sense, because Phoenix. I would be open to some changes around the rez, but I think it should stay. If they take it away I better see higher damage output!

5C. I’d like to see some tweaks to give it low skill floor/high skill ceiling. The first of that being to add more gem summons, and having their abilities being the deciding factor in which one to use at any given time. The second being a button akin to Transpose that allows us to switch teams of summons. Ideally putting the 6 elements in astral/umbral teams, but I will take LS&R however I can get them at this point.

6C. I’d like to start with gems and build up to the Demi but I don’t see that changing with how things are set up around the 2 minute meta, and that’s the least of my concerns with the job.

7B, along the lines of my answer to 5. We could get one more Demi to be even with Sol, but I want more gems first.

8B. 9A.

10C. I fully expect the next Demi (and sadly, probably the next thing they add, even when the gems are RIGHT THERE!) will be a “dark” Zodiark stand-in to balance Sol/Hydaelyn. Which is fine, but make it something good, and not just Lunar Phoenix. lol Odin could work, wouldn’t mind having the full cast of FF16 eikons, but I think Shinryu would be a good one, since they seem to like giving us more dragons!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carighan

It bugged out on the fourth step, gave me just a "choice 1", and then said thank you after that.

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Thanks for letting me know, I remade it on another site and updated the link in the first post. It won't let me take it myself though so lmk if this one also doesn't work.

Ty for the feedback so far!

1. How are you enjoying Summoner in Dawntrail?

C: The design is good but it needs a lot of work
E: I wish it was still a dot mage

Either properly expand on the summon cycles or go back to dot mage with pets


2. How many summons should Summoner have?

C: A few more would be nice

The current design made room for 3 more at least, them not using that obvious space is baffling.


3. Would you prefer summons as pets or something else?

A: I prefer temporary "pets" in combat like Bahamut and Phoenix
B: I want my summon of choice to follow me everywhere and do my bidding like the oden days (minus the ghosting)

If the game does actually make content to encourage swapping them to match different situations I'd prefer the old pet style. Otherwise having carbuncle always stick around and do more stuff would be nice.


4. Should Summoner have a rezz?

A: Yes

Many Summoners in the series are also healers, so it fits the archetype.

ShB SMN was still a powerful caster despite having the rez. The job just lacks complexity to justify having good damage. I want to think they're reevaluating rez tax given RDM's in a pretty good spot right now.


5. How simple or complex would you prefer Summoner to be?

D: Complex - I want a struggle to overcome

Having a lot of things to manage at once was the old XIV Arcanist design in a nutshell. Pets, party, dots, mp, aetherflow, etc. They're supposed to be tacticians and I want to feel smart playing it (whether I actually am or not)


6. Do you prefer building up to or opening with powerful summons like Bahamut?

None of the choices really. The idea you *have* to burst in order to have a decent filler is a pretty unique take from all the other builder-spender designs, but it's way too rigid for current content. It needs something to make it a little more flexible for downtime.


7. How do you feel demi summons are being handled? (pick any number)

Change Solar Bahamut out for a Hydaelyn Shiva hybrid where you transform to a light-ice form. Let the player then cycle through Titan/Garuda/Ifrit/Bahamut/Phoenix/Leviathan/Ramuh in any order.


8. Do you enjoy the mini-rotations of current summons?

B: Yes but I wish there was more to them


9. Would you rather cycle through summons or focus on one?

A: I want to see every summon as much as possible

If pet style, make content that encourage using different ones. If current style, generally cycle through all, but maybe one you'd only use in an emergency (Moggle Mog backup healer mode?)

10. How do you feel about having summons like Shiva or non-primals like Diabolos?

C: As long as they can be made to make sense, sure

I would prefer voidsent shenanigans with reaper, but as I mentioned above I would like Shiva/Hydaelyn as a transformation like enshroud/seraphism.

1. How are you enjoying Summoner in Dawntrail?

• C: The design is good but it needs a lot of work

2. How many summons should Summoner have?

• C: A few more would be nice. Doesn’t need to be a huge list but more than 5 lol, especially for the gem summons. Demis are fine at 3, but not when one is basically a palette swap. They should swap Solar Bahamut for…literally anything lol. King Mog, Anima (pretty sure that counts as a primal?), Ravana, Bismark, idk who else but it’s not like they don’t have options.

3. Would you prefer summons as pets or something else?

• D: Honestly I could take or leave any one of these options so I don’t know how to answer lol. As long as it’s well-developed and engaging I don’t mind either way.

4. Should Summoner have a rezz?

• A: Yes. Summoner has consistently had utility as part of its job design and I don’t see any reason to change that. Hell, bring back Eye for an Eye and Shadow Flare

5. How simple or complex would you prefer Summoner to be?

• C: Moderate - I just want to feel like I earn my output
• D: Complex - I want a struggle to overcome
  
  Anywhere between these two options. Doesn’t need to be unplayable levels of difficult but it doesn’t need to be as simple as it is now

6. Do you prefer building up to or opening with powerful summons like Bahamut?

• D: It\\'s my Bahamut and I want it now
  
  Unfortunately because of 120s raid structure; all jobs must (mostly) be able to use their biggest attacks during opener. Until they change that it kinda has to be available to open with by necessity.

7. How do you feel demi summons are being handled? (pick any number)

• B: I wish I could choose between them!
• E: I would like more variety
  
  It still infuriates me that Bahamut and Phoenix have totally different functions (one for damage one for healing support) yet are treated as entirely interchangeable. Why can’t they just be their own summons lol. Also, less Bahamuts. One is enough thanks.

8. Do you enjoy the mini-rotations of current summons?

• B: Yes but I wish there was more to them
  
  Complexity wise and in terms of the summons themselves.
  

9. Would you rather cycle through summons or focus on one?

• C: I want to pick the best / my favorite one and stick with it
  
  I’m also happy with A or B but ideally they’d be situational / chosen based on circumstances and not a prescribed rotation.

10. How do you feel about having summons like Shiva or non-primals like Diabolos?
[*]D: It depends on the execution frankly. Summoning Shiva, I wouldn’t really mind that much. From my understanding, at the end of the day primal summoning is limited solely by aether/crystal reserves and the user’s imagination, so theoretically as long as the appropriate aether is available (i.e from other primals) we could probably make anything pop out if we really wanted to. Though it would probably still have to be something that has existed at least once properly so there’s aether to form it from lol.

That said it would honestly make the drop the class completely if I had to literally turn into Shiva, that sounds awful. I like being a dude thanks; Seraphism is bad enough. Let’s not ask for another one lol. Please please please god no ff16 Summoner. If people want a Shapeshifter class so bad maybe it should be like its own thing and not tacked onto a random class. I mean, they’d basically just need to turn ff7 Vincent into an FFXIV job so it’s not even that out there as a job

1. How are you enjoying Summoner in Dawntrail?
C or D - DoT was not perfect and certainly was not "Summoner-like", but I see no benefit in turning them into lego chomper without giving the old SMN fans a place to stick around.

2. How many summons should Summoner have?
C - Pls no more 'bahamuts' lol. Learn some creativity.

3. Would you prefer summons as pets or something else?
B: I want my summon of choice to follow me everywhere and do my bidding like the oden days (minus the ghosting).

4. Should Summoner have a rezz?
C: Situationally - maybe actually give Phoenix that niche?

5. How simple or complex would you prefer Summoner to be?
C or D - There's this thing called 'the middleground', SE. Look it up.

6. Do you prefer building up to or opening with powerful summons like Bahamut?
C: Build up but with a way to speed it up for the opener - Ironically, the job that felt closer to this today is PCT lmao.

7. How do you feel demi summons are being handled? (pick any number)
E: I would like more variety.

8. Do you enjoy the mini-rotations of current summons?
B: Yes but I wish there was more to them - and the only one that I like is Ifrit.

9. Would you rather cycle through summons or focus on one?
D - Which mean this also requires few fundamental changes to the encounter design.

10. How do you feel about having summons like Shiva or non-primals like Diabolos?
C: As long as they can be made to make sense, sure - Besides, there are already odd things i.e. unable to glamour SMN carbuncle into faes or even Moonstone Carbie despite the term being essentially 'a glamour'. C'mon, make it make sense.

1. How are you enjoying Summoner in Dawntrail?
C: The design is good but it needs a lot of work
D: It needs a complete rework, something new
The initial idea of having SMN actually summon Ifrit, Titan and Garuda was interesting from a job fantasy standpoint, but the implementation is severely lacking. The job is at the same time extremely easy and extremely rigid. Solar Bahamut being the only change this job got in DT was a huge disappointment that sadly made the job worse by adding to its rigidity.

2. How many summons should Summoner have?
C: A few more would be nice

3. Would you prefer summons as pets or something else?
N/A
I do not particularly care. I'm not fond of the extra macro needed by pet jobs, but considering there's not other jobs like it, I wouldn't mind if that became SMN's niche

4. Should Summoner have a rezz?
B: No
Battle rez on non healers has led to constant balance issues. As nice as they can be in certain scenarios, it might be better if they go.

5. How simple or complex would you prefer Summoner to be?
C: Moderate - I just want to feel like I earn my output

6. Do you prefer building up to or opening with powerful summons like Bahamut?
No real opinion

7. How do you feel demi summons are being handled? (pick any number)
B: I wish I could choose between them

8. Do you enjoy the mini-rotations of current summons?
B: Yes but I wish there was more to them

9. Would you rather cycle through summons or focus on one?
B: I want to cycle through a few but not always the same ones
IMO SMN part of current SMN's issue is the rigid 3 gummies. If you need to delay burst for some reason, you're stuck spamming Ruin which is not great gameplay. Plus, part of current SMN's restrictive design is that your only rotation choice in your filler is when you summon Ifrit since its the most limiting one movement wise. IMO you should have the choice of the 6 classic ARR primals, each with their own utility and you could mix and match different combination every filler depending on the fight.

10. How do you feel about having summons like Shiva or non-primals like Diabolos?
C: As long as they can be made to make sense, sure

E: I wish it was still a dot mage

C: A few more would be nice
(note: i would prefer a 'summoner' to have a wide variety, but i also know its an mmo and there are restrictions. i would settle for more egiglamours)

B: I want my summon of choice to follow me everywhere and do my bidding like the oden days (minus the ghosting)

A: Yes
(note: at least in the context of ffxiv where it and scholar stem from the same core class, it makes sense. plus it has been part of the class for far too long to remove it now without it feeling odd)

E: Punish me harder Yoshi-senpai
(note: every job needs to be made more complex, not just summoner)

X. no opinion

E: I would like more variety

D: No, I prefer more consistency

B: I want to cycle through a few but not always the same ones

B: They don't make sense in the lore, so no
(note: shiva makes sense since she's a primal, but so far its only been primals and it would probably be best to keep it consistent)

1. How are you enjoying Summoner in Dawntrail?

• C: The design is good but it needs a lot of work

2. How many summons should Summoner have?

• C: A few more would be nice

3. Would you prefer summons as pets or something else?

• C: Just give me big flashy attacks like Ifrit/Titan/Garuda, I don't want a pet

4. Should Summoner have a rezz?

• A: Yes

5. How simple or complex would you prefer Summoner to be?

• C: Moderate - I just want to feel like I earn my output

6. Do you prefer building up to or opening with powerful summons like Bahamut?

• C: Build up but with a way to speed it up for the opener

7. How do you feel demi summons are being handled? (pick any number)

• E: I would like more variety

8. Do you enjoy the mini-rotations of current summons?

• C: Only certain summons should have their own rotations so they feel more special

9. Would you rather cycle through summons or focus on one?

• A: I want to see every summon as much as possible

10. How do you feel about having summons like Shiva or non-primals like Diabolos?

• C: As long as they can be made to make sense, sure

1. How are you enjoying Summoner in Dawntrail?
C: The design is good but it needs a lot of work
D: It needs a complete rework, something new

I'm in-between both these alternatives

2. How many summons should Summoner have?
D: A dozen or so sounds cool
E: ALL OF THE SUMMONS

Somewhere between a dozen and ALL OF THEM.
For context, FF6 have 25 summon creatures.

3. Would you prefer summons as pets or something else?
Pet would be cool but I wouldn't cry if it weren't.

4. Should Summoner have a rezz?
D: Only if it becomes a role action

5. How simple or complex would you prefer Summoner to be?
C: Moderate - I just want to feel like I earn my output

6. Do you prefer building up to or opening with powerful summons like Bahamut?
A: Build up with the potential for loss of progress on death

7. How do you feel demi summons are being handled? (pick any number)
B: I wish I could choose between them
E: I would like more variety

Both these.

8. Do you enjoy the mini-rotations of current summons?
B: Yes but I wish there was more to them
D: No, I prefer more consistency

Each summon should play like different classes:
If Ifrit is a mini-BLM,
Garuda should be like a mini-RDM,
Titan like a mini-WAR,
if we get Yojimbo it should be like a mini-SAM, Ravana like a mini-Viper, etc.

9. Would you rather cycle through summons or focus on one?
A: I want to see every summon as much as possible

10. How do you feel about having summons like Shiva or non-primals like Diabolos?
C: As long as they can be made to make sense, sure

Though any concept can summoned. That's how FFXIV version of Necron came to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

It's been over 4 years since old Summoner was Old Yellered, how is everyone feeling about its replacement?

I made a little questionnaire for anyone interested in giving their input: Summoner Questionnaire

I'm working on a rework of sorts for fun and am curious to know what others would like to see.

Edit: The questionnaire wasn't working, remade it elsewhere and updated the link.

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Btw, questionnaire still not working. The site says this survey is offline.

1 B
2 C I just want all 6 primary elements and leviathan Shiva ramuh. No Lunar phoenix please.
3 B I miss titan tanking fates for me but Im also okay with the modern Clive style.
4 A
5 B or C not stormblood complex but not endwalker easy. Shadowbringers felt good.
6 D rampers suck in this game. I hate dying on summoner bard and red mage so much. You are so cooked.
7 N/A solar Bahamut ruined to clean cycling of bahamut and Phoenix i fell in love with in Shadowbringers and it looks disgusting. If he gets lunar cou terrarium before we get the 3 missing primary element gem summo s I'll crash out. If we get a new demi it better be Odin or diabolos for dark element.
8 B make slipstream apply a dot debuff that stays on enemies that walk in it. Also make the level 86 primal skills available at level 50. The job is awful at levels under 90.
9 A make the whole kit usable not 90% ifrit 10% garuda and 0% titan again.
10 A/C I want Shiva leviathan and ramuh but id like the rest beyond that to make sense. Solar Bahmut makes no sense and is ugly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brandr

Btw, questionnaire still not working. The site says this survey is offline.

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Augh. Should be up now.