A suggestion to keep normal raids relevant for longer:

Hello!

I’ve been thinking about this for a few days and wanted to put the idea out there.

Right now, normal raids tend to die off within a week of release. Most people don’t run them for gear, since you can just buy a crafted set at the same item level and pentameld it. Outside of the final fight, there’s not much reason to keep doing them.

So here’s my suggestion:

• Remove the weekly token lockout: maybe not immediately, but at least once Savage releases. That would keep Savage prep exactly the same as it is now: week 1 clearers/raiders can still pentameld and go straight in, while everyone else can start farming normal‑raid gear afterward without affecting the race!
The lockout doesn’t really matter, since crafted gear already lets players jump 20 item levels in a day.

• Add weekly upgrade tokens to each normal raid wing, similar to Alliance Raid coins.
Something like:

M9 → accessories

M10 → hands/feet

M11 → chest/legs

M12 stays as the weapon token

• Let these upgrades raise normal gear to slightly below Savage level.
Maybe 5 item levels under it, in steps of +5 (Like: 770 → 775 → 780 → 785).
This keeps Savage gear the best, while giving every player who doesn't do savage a long‑term goal and a small boost to raiders if they’re struggling with early Savage clears.

• Ultimates stay untouched, since you still need full BiS from Savage anyway.
The idea is simply to keep normal raids relevant for longer. It gives non‑Savage players a consistent weekly way to progress their gear.

And while it’s true you don’t need gear if you don’t raid, it’s still an MMO/JRPG gearing your character is part of the genre.

But what about Alliance Raids?
I’d keep those exactly as they are now honestly. They work well as a catch‑up option for returning players or people joining mid‑expansion. You could even let their coins upgrade their gear too. The weekly lockout can stay, since it would simply give players a shortcut from a 770 piece to a 785 piece once a week. It still fulfills its role as catch‑up content, and it doesn’t affect raiders much anyway, since Alliance Raids release in odd patches when most raiders already have their BiS.

I think this upgrade system would be a great addition to the game for raiders and casuals alike on top of keeping normal raids relevant almost all tier and give everyone a good investment goal in terms of gear. :)

Thank you for reading and considering this! ^-^

IMO

I would turn normal mode raid gear to be equivalent to non-augmented tomestone (So +10 of crafted). With how accessible crafting is, versus the weekly lockout of normal mode, I don't really think there's a reason as to why it should be equivalent to crafted on baseline.

Then Alliance Raid gear IMO should be equivalent to raid.

it used to be similar to that but it was changed since its bloody boring to spam the same fight over and over to lose every dice roll.

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Originally Posted by Avenheit

it used to be similar to that but it was changed since its bloody boring to spam the same fight over and over to lose every dice roll.

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My suggestion would be to have the upgrade tokens be guaranteed drops like the alliance raid coins but maybe change the gear tokens to be like a general token to buy any piece? You'd still need four for chest and pants and so on, but it would reduce the RNG a bit!

Honestly I'm all for this but I don't really think it would help too much. As you yourself point out, crafted gear exists and 99% of the time is better than normal mode raid gear due to the wealth of materia slots and typically better itemization. Plus Gil being essentially worthless means the crafted sets aren't even expensive. I feel they should, rather than removing the lockout, maybe consider just making normal raid gear better than the crafted stuff. That'd give everyone a reason to keep running it.

Can we maybe get NPCs gear from normal raid? Maybe for like 20 tokens that will drop out of chests per chear? Something besides gear that is literally worse than what you can craft is you overmeld even once which is also absurdly cheap thing to do.

Can we maybe get dances from CW1? Maybe emotes from LHW2? Something that will actually able to keep these raids alive even after many patches due to new players and alts wanting to get these cosmetic items?

There's so much opportunity to boost players engagement and involvement into content that otherwise gets done like once for the story at best and then being forgotten forever, with the exception of maybe sometimes appearing in moogle tomestone farms.

The normal versions get mindnumbing if you repeat them. I know because I force myself to repeat the 4th floor once a week for 9 months, or however long it is until they remove the weekly weapon token. I don't even end up using that weekly weapon token beyond the first job, but I do it anyway in case, just because I'm "supposed" to.

I also don't struggle to get queues for any of them for months, actually. I've used the normal versions simply to get myself in the mood for the savage versions or practice the more simpler mechanics that underpin the savage version, and queues are quite easy to get even months after release.

I agree and I'd like them to have a way to get dumbed down versions of the savage weapons as well. Weapons suffer from the same problem that outside of savage, it's only tomes, tomes tomes and more tomes and no other alternative or choice. It's boring, it doesn't offer incentives beyond spamming roulettes and be done with it.

Having something equal to unaugmented tomes for the even patches would go a great way for casual players to things to chase after or just customize their gear.
They could then raise alliance raid gear to augmented tome level as well, because savage is already old and past its time when odd patches come up anyway - and augmented tomes are accessible to casual players there as well.

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Originally Posted by Valence

I agree and I'd like them to have a way to get dumbed down versions of the savage weapons as well. Weapons suffer from the same problem that outside of savage, it's only tomes, tomes tomes and more tomes and no other alternative or choice. It's boring, it doesn't offer incentives beyond spamming roulettes and be done with it.

Having something equal to unaugmented tomes for the even patches would go a great way for casual players to things to chase after or just customize their gear.
They could then raise alliance raid gear to augmented tome level as well, because savage is already old and past its time when odd patches come up anyway - and augmented tomes are accessible to casual players there as well.

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Well I think relics kind of fill that spot for weapons, personally

They could make the gear dyeable, then it would have at least some kind of value.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

They could make the gear dyeable, then it would have at least some kind of value.

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I wish but the devs have decided that dyes are gated behind savage. Like weapons.

I've run the normal raids for months because I didn't want to pay for full sets of crafted gear and weapons for all my lesser played alt jobs, and they are p active for the entire time as it always pops each week onwards. Do I find it tedious? Yes, but it's just yet another task I do to keep my jobs at a good ilvl for the upcoming MSQ.

I don't believe gil is worthless like maybe if you're a gillionaire but for everyone else gil is useful for most players since you need money for many things in-game esp new glams, minions, and mounts is my main hobby to collect them over time along with upgrading my S plots to M plots which I've failed to win for 1 year now since I started bidding each new week.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

They could make the gear dyeable, then it would have at least some kind of value.

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I've wanted this since Heavensward but I doubt they'll ever do it. Dyeable raid gear has been firmly framed as a Savage reward. I could see it working if normal and savage difficulty offered slightly different versions of the gear however with both being dyeable, but these days with how many recolor sets we get asking for more from the art team feels like pulling teeth.

yes to making normal raid gear the same ilvl as token gear (780 in this tier) and a-raid gear the same ilvl as savage gear (790 in this tier)

At minimum, they should make normal raid gear pentameld-able, a huge part of why it is so useless is because pentamelds, especially on accessories, makes crafted gear way better other than edge cases, even for more casual players, as the crafted gear will be upgraded eventually.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

They could make the gear dyeable, then it would have at least some kind of value.

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100% agree. At least give the casual outfitters something to dye and make pretty.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

They could make the gear dyeable, then it would have at least some kind of value.

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This. It should be dyeable. It's silly limiting that to the Savage gear. Savage gear is already higher ilevel and maybe they can look into things like set bonuses for further encouragement to obtain it.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

They could make the gear dyeable, then it would have at least some kind of value.

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I'd be all for this to be honest. It'd also make it less frustrating to have to wait 1-2 expansions to farm some raids for dyeable gear. One can dream.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

I'd be all for this to be honest. It'd also make it less frustrating to have to wait 1-2 expansions to farm some raids for dyeable gear. One can dream.

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Dyable has always been savage treat since the beginning of the normal/savage tiers in 2015, that's not going to change. It's just one encouragement to do the content, just like how they won't give you two same tome level rings, you will need the savage ring until the midway patch when more options open.

To be honest, I would just give the normal raid gear slightly better stats than crafted — even just more favorable substats would be nice. When I was planning out my gear for 7.4, I was shocked how little raid gear I wanted because the crafted substats were more favorable. For Reaper, Warrior, and Sage (the main jobs I play) I wanted only three gear tokens, period, out of the entire raid series because the substats on most of the crafted items were better. I’d change that so that about 1/3 of gear slots would be better with raid gear, 1/3 with crafted, and 1/3 a wash. It would start Savage raiders in a slightly worse spot (in response to which I would reduce boss HP a little), but it would keep normal raid gear interesting to more players.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

They could make the gear dyeable, then it would have at least some kind of value.

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Agreed. Savage could have different dye patterns or colors as a result or (toggleable?) effects as was the case for Abyssos and Anabaseios.

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Originally Posted by technole

Dyable has always been savage treat since the beginning of the normal/savage tiers in 2015, that's not going to change. It's just one encouragement to do the content, just like how they won't give you two same tome level rings, you will need the savage ring until the midway patch when more options open.

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Raiders do actually raid for dyable equipment? I can't say I've heard a single one say they were after this, but maybe your mileage may vary I guess.

If you don't do savage/ultimate then iLvl does absolutely nothing for you. It's a fake reward. Gearing up as a casual is an absolute waste of time.

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Originally Posted by DarkOmegaGod

If you don't do savage/ultimate then iLvl does absolutely nothing for you. It's a fake reward. Gearing up as a casual is an absolute waste of time.

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Necessary no?

But beneficial, yes.. On multiple levels. So the whole "If you don't do savage or ultimate, then it does nothing for you" is frankly irrelevant.

Besides, pretty ridiculous to have the normal raid gear be equivalent item level to crafted gear with how accessible crafted gear is, whilst the former is locked behind a weekly loot lockout.

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Originally Posted by DarkOmegaGod

If you don't do savage/ultimate then iLvl does absolutely nothing for you. It's a fake reward. Gearing up as a casual is an absolute waste of time.

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Except, it's still an MMO/JRPG. Gearing is kind of important in those games. I'm not advocating to give people max ilv for no effort but to have multiple avenues where people can work towards getting better gear instead of just having savage.

That or they could loosen the tome cap.

I had to buy gear to be a high enough ilvl to do the raids (tbh, my own fault cause I wasn't gearing up as I should have been but...) now that I have my main jobs sorted (by buying gear) I was like wait why am I doing the raids :/ so generally just start upgrading other jobs with raid gear which doesn't really have a sense of urgency. On the off chance that we get a music scroll drop that's nice at least.

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Originally Posted by DarkOmegaGod

If you don't do savage/ultimate then iLvl does absolutely nothing for you. It's a fake reward. Gearing up as a casual is an absolute waste of time.

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I disagree. Because ultimately, everything is locked behind iLvl eventually. Yes, normal raids, alliance raids, dungeons. Albeit on different levels.

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Originally Posted by DarkOmegaGod

If you don't do savage/ultimate then iLvl does absolutely nothing for you. It's a fake reward. Gearing up as a casual is an absolute waste of time.

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Technically gearing up does nothing for you in savage either since it's clearable with basic ilvl from the tier - normal raid, crafted, you name it. All gearing up is going to do is making it easier for reclears. Same for casual content, makes it even more brainless to reclear once you gear up.

The only content that requires gearing up is Ultimates, at least at release.

( yes I fully agree that gearing and itemization in this game has reached rock bottom )

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Originally Posted by Valence

I agree and I'd like them to have a way to get dumbed down versions of the savage weapons as well. Weapons suffer from the same problem that outside of savage, it's only tomes, tomes tomes and more tomes and no other alternative or choice. It's boring, it doesn't offer incentives beyond spamming roulettes and be done with it.

Having something equal to unaugmented tomes for the even patches would go a great way for casual players to things to chase after or just customize their gear.
They could then raise alliance raid gear to augmented tome level as well, because savage is already old and past its time when odd patches come up anyway - and augmented tomes are accessible to casual players there as well.

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As another stated: you have relics. You also have EX weapons. Let's also not forget the crafted (770) and augmented crafted that will be 780 (similar to non-augmented tome gear ilvl) when they release a bit later.

->Make it Dyeable
-> Give the Savage Mode version 5 or 6 materia slots
->Add the Mounts to casuals for 99tokens same as Extreme Trials or have be a 5% limited drop for last fight of the tier

if they do those 3 things it will make the normal raids last many times longer then they would have because then they have actual reason and incentive to want to run the same raids over and over for these pieces of gear if they feel like they are getting something good out of it. and with the savage mode just being better over all in terms of stats and functionality it wouldn't encroach on the players rewards for savage.
as for the weapons i think what they should do is offer players a replica version for glamours like allow for people to trade the tomestone item thats supposed to be for an upgraded tomestone weapon also be used to obtain a replica weapon of the savage tier weapons this i feel like would make a good balance without ruining any of the savage core players experience in obtaining the gear sets or pieces from savage.

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

->Make it Dyeable
-> Give the Savage Mode version 5 or 6 materia slots
->Add the Mounts to casuals for 99tokens same as Extreme Trials or have be a 5% limited drop for last fight of the tier

if they do those 3 things it will make the normal raids last many times longer then they would have because then they have actual reason and incentive to want to run the same raids over and over for these pieces of gear if they feel like they are getting something good out of it. and with the savage mode just being better over all in terms of stats and functionality it would encroach on the players rewards for savage.
as for the weapons i think what they should do is offer players a replica version for glamours like allow for people to trade the tomestone item thats supposed to be for an upgraded tomestone weapon also be used to obtain a replica weapon of the savage tier weapons this i feel like would make a good balance without ruining any of the savage core players experience in obtaining the gear sets or pieces from savage.

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If full slots is 'too much,' how about just letting advanced melding work on savage gear? That way they're not stacking XII across the board.

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Originally Posted by Uzephi

If full slots is 'too much,' how about just letting advanced melding work on savage gear? That way they're not stacking XII across the board.

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this could work as well, as long as the savage tier is better in every way compared to the normal mode's gear drops i think it would be a good trade off. hell they could just remove the materia slots from the normal raid gear version entirely and just make that a savage exclusive thing too.

Full slots is definitely too much, as it would cause Ornate gear to become completely obsolete, and that's significantly rarer than raid gear, but I completely agree with overmelds, it's baffling that it doesn't work that way already.

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

this could work as well, as long as the savage tier is better in every way compared to the normal mode's gear drops i think it would be a good trade off. hell they could just remove the materia slots from the normal raid gear version entirely and just make that a savage exclusive thing too.

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Normal mode loot just needs to be below savage in item level. Coincidentally that's what tomestone gear is at patch release it's 10 ilvl below savage, and only becomes on par with its augmented version the next major patch.
Normal mode loot would really benefit to compete with normal tomestone gear really. Currently non existent weapons included.

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Originally Posted by Uzephi

As another stated: you have relics. You also have EX weapons. Let's also not forget the crafted (770) and augmented crafted that will be 780 (similar to non-augmented tome gear ilvl) when they release a bit later.

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- Relics don't follow the same pattern of tiers and release, and generally their new step happen during gameplay lulls, namely in the middle or at the end of patches.
- Ex weapons are by very definition not casual weapons.
- Crafted doesn't compete with tome gear.

Savage players don't have it much better mind you, since the only thing they add at the side of tomestones is savage loot. But that's already twice more options.