Stop Armor Recolors

Okay there's no way I am alone in hating this direction in "art design". Every single expansion and every single patch, we see this happen. They dig up some ancient armor set from a previous expansion, recolor it, maybe (emphasis on maybe) upgrade some textures, and re-release it back to us. Can we please stop doing this? I have yet to meet a single player that likes it when they do it. I have to call it out for what it is, it's lazy. Why do we even have an art team if they are being forced to do something like this? Are they otherwise engaged? If so, why are we not hiring more artists and modelers to compensate? This is a horrible practice in a game featuring a dye system in the first place regardless of the reasoning. If you truly cannot spare the resources to make enough unique armor sets every expansion/patch, this is NOT a good remedy for that problem.

Let me be clear, I'm not just here to bash the dev team. I am INCREDIBLY thankful for the recent decision to remove glamour restrictions as that's something I have wanted for years, but as far as art related problems with the game goes I feel this is the elephant in the room we need to address.

'Pallette swaps' are a fact of life in gaming development and are a common way of cutting down the artists' workload (and also reducing the amount of processing the client has to do, by using a standardised underlying 'rig' or model that the textures are just changed on).

It's been the case in FFXIV since 1.0 was launched, it's going to always be a part of it, deal with it.

hey OP i know you hate hearing this but armor recolors really shouldn't be your issue lmfao
why? we have a good like, 20 unique models directly ported from FFXIII, several more from XI and XII, one from X, one from Dissidia NT, a fuckton from MH, a decent amount from nier:replicant and nier:automata, a couple from FFXVI... hope you get the point. models cost money. there is no video game that doesn't copy and paste its own homework sometimes. else we'd pay like double the sub money.

yr welcome

I think having variants of gear with different colour placements can be nice - as long as they're dyeable, of course.

A lot of work goes into making models. Sometimes, only for them to be seen one time, in the background.

In order to solve the problem of them only being seen once despite all of the work that went into them, game developers find clever ways to re-use them. This is so entirely logical that a lot of games do it. They re-color enemies often to the point you'd never guess they are recolors; they re-use old bosses as regular mobs and sometimes they are so small and recolored that you don't notice it; they get enemy models and make small adjustments (such as removing horns or adjusting wings) before recoloring so it seems like a different model and of course, they re-use armor.

There are so many things they have re-used that I actually took many, many years to even notice it. Often they are just good at doing this, while other times it's obvious.

Armor specifically doesn't bother me. Especially if it's consistent which is a new set and which is a re-used set ie. I just glam over crafted gear.

I wish they would stop reusing armor so much too, but I understand it's a necessary evil. I think I would be more okay with it if the recolors were at least dyeable. Like the lvl 91 dungeon has the Pagl'than gear but in worse colors that you can't even change. If they're worried that making them dyeable is gonna give them even less of an excuse to reuse them again in the future then maybe they can just make the dye channels work differently?

If they stopped doing recolors of stuff they'll simply just give us less content. RPGs aren't like other games. there is multitudes more of everything if it is enemies, weapons, or outfits. So they must repurpose, remix, or even just recolor.

I'm not against armor recolors myself, what I wish they did with them, since they will add a recolor anyway, is to give us more varied dye tables or colorsets for us to use in glams. I'm disappointed they reutilized the Neo-Ishgardian set in EW but kept the metals a slightly different shade of gold instead of, say, going for silver, gunmetal black, platinum, anything that would actually differentiate them more from the original sets.
I think they should also differentiate the Ornate sets from the regular ones for more dye variants.

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Originally Posted by Shistar

I'm not against armor recolors myself, what I wish they did with them, since they will add a recolor anyway, is to give us more varied dye tables or colorsets for us to use in glams. I'm disappointed they reutilized the Neo-Ishgardian set in EW but kept the metals a slightly different shade of gold instead of, say, going for silver, gunmetal black, platinum, anything that would actually differentiate them more from the original sets.
I think they should also differentiate the Ornate sets from the regular ones for more dye variants.

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Yeah this would be nice, because sometimes you *can't* dye the dang metals, or it dyes weird. At least this way there would be some options?

Heh! With the removal of Glam restrictions, I can see them just doing 4 (fending, maim/slay, scout/aim and heal/mage) variants of the same gear with different dye channels going forward.

There is also a trend that's been happening not only for armor unique models but also enemy monsters skeletons (as in animation bone structure and shape): we kept getting new ones constantly in HW and even SB, but past that point we're getting less and less because the devs have decided that they now have enough of a sample to rotate through.

For instance just take a look at the leveling grey sets in each expansion. In ShB and onward, there is only two new sets usually (crafted sets - ShB: dwarven, EW: I don't think there was even one? DT: acacia), and it follows a similar pattern in dungeon loot (ShB: Kitana ravel, EW: imperial and palaka's sets, DT: worqor and vanguard). If you compare to HW/SB, the ratio of new gear models was way higher.

This means that workload has been shifted to other things, much like they have probably shifted manpower toward other things when they started cutting through the amount of post endgame dungeons over the years.

In my opinion, the main issue is not recolors (as long as there's more or at least an equal amount of new original gear per expansion) but that some of the gear released isn't dyeable, especially in dungeons. In fact, only two in Dawntrail have dyeable gear: the level 93 and 97 ones.

This is a problem when every other piece of gear (from Deep Dungeon, Occult Crescent, Arkveld, etc.) can be dyed just fine and it's only affecting dungeons, even with original gear like Yuweyawata's.

It's even more ridiculous if we consider that they are going back and improving older gear sets every patch with a graphical update that, in theory, was meant to make all gear have double dyes.

Not sure I understand the issue? They stated clearly they were slowly working on the graphical update reaching all textures.

Now my issue is when they release dual dye channels for things that haven't been touched by the graphical update. I'm not an expert or developer, but doesn't that immediately cause redundant work later? Seems like an odd call.

I don't mind their recycling gear in different dye or color schemes as I often collect the same top but in different colors or if one type dyes better than the first one.

Finally, I know creating new models is labor intensive, so I accept they will try to improve old gear by updating them with DT textures and maybe end up turning them into a crafting set which will be unlocked soon like the old PVP gears became jobs later on.

Coming back to this thread and reading Valence's comment... I remembered I am still mad they reused Hades' skeleton. That sort of thing should be of off-limits. Sephirot was bad enough, but this? Seriously? And in the same content, no less.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Now my issue is when they release dual dye channels for things that haven't been touched by the graphical update. I'm not an expert or developer, but doesn't that immediately cause redundant work later? Seems like an odd call.

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The way dyes behave are not necessarily tied to the quality of the texture, so that work can be done separately by two different groups of people or at different times. It doesn't make a ton of sense from our point of view, but if they're doing it this way it must make sense for them and their workload.

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

Coming back to this thread and reading Valence's comment... I remembered I am still mad they reused Hades' skeleton. That sort of thing should be of off-limits. Sephirot was bad enough, but this? Seriously? And in the same content, no less.

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Who stole the old fart's (affectionate) rig?

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

Coming back to this thread and reading Valence's comment... I remembered I am still mad they reused Hades' skeleton. That sort of thing should be of off-limits. Sephirot was bad enough, but this? Seriously? And in the same content, no less.

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Yeah, I get that making new models is expensive but I feel that reusing bosses such as Hades takes away from their "specialness"... I mean... couldn't they have made it less obvious, like getting rid of the giant arms? Or would that count as making a new model?

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Originally Posted by Shistar

Who stole the old fart's (affectionate) rig?

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Pilgrim's Traverse stone 30 boss.

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...erse_img14.jpg

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Originally Posted by Valence

There is also a trend that's been happening not only for armor unique models but also enemy monsters skeletons (as in animation bone structure and shape): we kept getting new ones constantly in HW and even SB, but past that point we're getting less and less because the devs have decided that they now have enough of a sample to rotate through.

For instance just take a look at the leveling grey sets in each expansion. In ShB and onward, there is only two new sets usually (crafted sets - ShB: dwarven, EW: I don't think there was even one? DT: acacia), and it follows a similar pattern in dungeon loot (ShB: Kitana ravel, EW: imperial and palaka's sets, DT: worqor and vanguard). If you compare to HW/SB, the ratio of new gear models was way higher.

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You might need to compare again.

HEAVENSWARD: In summary, every "grey" crafted set is recycled from either level 50 ARR gear or earlier Heavensward gear, and even the green patch cycle stuff is borrowng bits and pieces from earlier sets. Dungeon gear is spread thin with two rounds of "one costume with different accessories" and reusing the 3.1 dungeon gear in 3.4.

Lv50 crafted sets are 3 x recycled Pilgrim/Magician set and 2 x recycled Varlet set (from level 50 dungeons), 1 x recycled Lv50 Arachne crafted mage gear as striking, and ninja got kind of lucky with a dedicated outfit used for the Doman ninja characters in MSQ - though even that is at least partly recycled from Labyrinth's Fuma set.

Lv51 dungeon gear is new, double-purposed as Ishgardian NPC costumes.

Lv52 is a spread-thin recycled mix where everyone gets the shirt and pants from the Lv50 Divine Hero DPS set, paired with an assortment of ARR hats, gloves and boots. Somehow the mages get lucky and get unique gloves and boots which have never been seen again.

Lv53 dungeon is a spread-thin set with one body model and minimal variations of the other pieces.

Lv54 crafted again recycles Lv50 crafted armours, and the Picaroon and Divine Death/Harvest dungeon sets.

Lv55 dungeon is a full original set, used for historical characters (Haldrath's knights and the original Shiva).

Lv56 crafted is once again recycled Lv50 dungeon gear: Divine War, 3 x Divine Wisdom, 3 x Shikaree

Lv57 dungeon gear is the only fully new set that isn't being borrowed from elsewhere.

Lv58 crafted gear isn't level 50 dungeon gear - it's level 51 dungeon gear, without even a role swap.

Lv59 dungeon is the entire same outfit seven times with just different hats. The same outfit is used for the Scholasticate uniform and future glamour reward.

Lv60 crafted gear is recycled level 50 tome gear.

3.0 (Lv60) dungeon gear is new (Valerian x 6 designs)

i180 crafted gear is partly new (Adamantite fending/maiming and Astral Silk casting/healing) and partly recycled (Lv50 Bogatyr and Kirimu recolours for DPS)

3.1 dungeon gear is new (Duelist, Thief, Plague Doctor)

3.2 dungeon gear (Dravanian) is recycled Lv55

i220 crafted (Eikon) is mostly new, but the mage boots and skirt are recycled from the Valerian healer and caster sets respectively.

3.3 dungeon gear (Beserker/Viking, Conqueror/Subjugator, Wrangler, Panegyrist/Prophet) is new

3.4 dungeon gear (Valkyrie x 3 designs) is a reshuffle of the Lv60.1 Duelist and Thief sets and - to avoid giving the Plague Doctor to the heavy armour classes - the Lv57 Halonic DPS sets.

i250 crafted (Star Velvet / Heavy Metal) is new

3.5 dungeon gear (Filibuster) is new, with the primary design intent of being NPC gear for Stormblood.

STORMBLOOD: Brings in a couple of new crafted sets but still recycles a lot.

Lv60 crafted sets are recycled from the 3.3 dungeons

Lv61 dungeon (Sirensong) is assorted level 60 outfits reassigned to different roles

Lv62 crafted is recycled 3.0 Valerian gear

Lv63 dungeon (Shisui) is new but a spread-thin repeated design, also used as seasonal gear

Lv64 crafted is recycled Lv55 / patch 3.2 gear

Lv65 dungeon (Nomad) is again spread thin

Lv66 crafted gear is new but basically two-and-a-half designs instead of the usual three per series.

Lv67 dungeon (Yanxian) is recycled level 60 tome gear (Asuran)

Lv68 crafted is new x 3 designs

Lv69 dungeon is new (Valerian x 4 designs)

4.0 Lv60 dungeon (Arhat) is new - 3 basic designs with mix-and-matching

i320 crafted gear is recycled level 50 (Demon gear from World of Darkness)

4.1 dungeon (Skallic) is new

4.2 dungeon (Farlander) is reshuffled Lv69 dungeon gear

i350 crafted is recycled level 60 (Void Ark)

4.3 dungeon is new (Bonewicca x 4 designs)

4.4 dungeon (Royal Volunteer) is reshuffled 3.5 Filibuster

i380 crafted (Rakshasa) is new x 3 designs

4.5 dungeon is new (Alliance x 3 designs, mix and match)

That's still a lot more new than we have today. Nobody said there was literally zero reskins back then either.

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Originally Posted by Destati

Yeah, I get that making new models is expensive but I feel that reusing bosses such as Hades takes away from their "specialness"... I mean... couldn't they have made it less obvious, like getting rid of the giant arms? Or would that count as making a new model?

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Yeah, this made me mad as shit ngl. I think it's in bad taste with non-story bosses already (Sephirot, Alte Roite) as well as rhe opposite where side story bosses use normal overworld mob skeletons (Omega is a frog, tho at least that one had effort in it), but I think actual named characters should never have this happen, and I'm surprised it needs to be said. Like unambiguously reusing the P5 Carbuncle skeleton for the one dungeon is fine, but please leave Hades alone lol, it's antithetical to his character story to have his model be used on a sin eater of all things, not to mention a named Sin Eater. Oofie.