The Experience of Playing Jobs Under Level Sync

One of the most frustrating parts of level sync is how it strips away the majority of your job’s skills and makes your rotation nonexistent in most cases. When you are at max level, it can feel miserable to suddenly lose the core abilities that make your job enjoyable. This issue has been in the game for far too long, the current system is outdated, and needs a fix IMO.

Instead of removing all of our skills, why not adjust the damage values of existing abilities to scale appropriately for lower level content? That way, players could still use their full toolkit while maintaining balance, and max level players wouldn’t feel like they’re playing a gutted version of their class.

Some may be wondering do you really expect them to go back, and edit systems like this? Yes, I do since it is still a monthly Sub MMO, not to mention they have a cash shop they have more than enough resources, I just think they are not putting the money back into FFXIV. I don't say this because I hate the game i mean i won't lie it is a bit frustrating, but I just want to see the game I play improve.

The reason is because they view each expansion as a "whole new game" (their words). When you sync down, you sync down to the "rotation of that expansion". Now, sure, they remove jank and merge things to reduce the overall amount of buttons at those levels to make it manageable at higher levels, but the essence of the rotation is mostly intact. If they revamp it, they still try to maintain some similar essence to what it had at those levels ie. you still use egis at lower levels on Summoner, you still spam the Rage of Halone combo on PLD at level 50 and it still has no magic attacks until Stormblood.

So if they synced it by adjusting potency they would need to have a button that level syncs the attacks still in the settings, so that we can play the rotation of those expansions if we want to.

There are balance issues with it though. Content is designed around jobs having certain abilities, which is part of the reason for homogenization. For example, at a certain point you notice all tanks get a "short cooldown" that is less than 30 seconds and then that becomes an integral part of mitigating some fights. At a certain point we get more heals but then they scale outgoing damage accordingly. And lower level content may not have necessarily been designed with these evolutions in mind. It's also difficult to predict how each person's personal level sync could unbalance lower level content in terms of damage with an automated, one-sized fits all potency sync, when we already unbalance it enough as it is.

As for them not putting money into the game, I really think it's just decision-making. Their focus is always on the next patch, and nothing else (except the Graphics Update, which there was notably few updates to in the last patch if any which makes me wonder if there was a problem).

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The reason is because they view each expansion as a "whole new game" (their words). When you sync down, you sync down to the "rotation of that expansion". Now, sure, they remove jank and merge things to reduce the overall amount of buttons at those levels to make it manageable at higher levels, but the essence of the rotation is mostly intact. If they revamp it, they still try to maintain some similar essence to what it had at those levels ie. you still use egis at lower levels on Summoner, you still spam the Rage of Halone combo on PLD at level 50 and it still has no magic attacks until Stormblood.

So if they synced it by adjusting potency they would need to have a button that level syncs the attacks still in the settings, so that we can play the rotation of those expansions if we want to.

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That works more or less for the previous expansion. But those aren't the real problem. Going down from 100 to 50 feels terrible, and modern day 50 is certainly not similar to how it was 10 years ago.

So that argument doesn't really work.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

There are balance issues with it though. Content is designed around jobs having certain abilities, which is part of the reason for homogenization. For example, at a certain point you notice all tanks get a "short cooldown" that is less than 30 seconds and then that becomes an integral part of mitigating some fights. At a certain point we get more heals but then they scale outgoing damage accordingly. And lower level content may not have necessarily been designed with these evolutions in mind. It's also difficult to predict how each person's personal level sync could unbalance lower level content in terms of damage with an automated, one-sized fits all potency sync, when we already unbalance it enough as it is.

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Lower level balance is all over the place already. And in any balance discussion people claim only current tier savage+ matters. But when it's about syncing down suddenly we can't have more fun rotations because of balance considerations.

Max level balance is generally far better than the lower level stuff. So if anything it's far easier to match the intended player performance of the content by potency/mitigation nerfs for max level, than the current level sync system.

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Originally Posted by Dillon0_o

One of the most frustrating parts of level sync is how it strips away the majority of your job’s skills and makes your rotation nonexistent in most cases. When you are at max level, it can feel miserable to suddenly lose the core abilities that make your job enjoyable. This issue has been in the game for far too long, the current system is outdated, and needs a fix IMO.

Instead of removing all of our skills, why not adjust the damage values of existing abilities to scale appropriately for lower level content? That way, players could still use their full toolkit while maintaining balance, and max level players wouldn’t feel like they’re playing a gutted version of their class.

Some may be wondering do you really expect them to go back, and edit systems like this? Yes, I do since it is still a monthly Sub MMO, not to mention they have a cash shop they have more than enough resources, I just think they are not putting the money back into FFXIV. I don't say this because I hate the game i mean i won't lie it is a bit frustrating, but I just want to see the game I play improve.

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Its more important the "fresh-new" experience (according to this forum) of free trial accounts and "newbies" who may play the game 1 week and never come back or people that never going to sub rather than veterans that have been playing this game for years. That's why you are not allowed to have fun.

They won't, because it isn't possible. How are you gonna "balance" decked out level 100s with loads of AoEs in their kit against babby level 15 DPS who don't even have any?

If you don't like being synced, don't do synced content. This doesn't become an issue just because it's a style of play you don't particularly care for. I don't go around saying savages/ultimates need to be "fixed" just because it's content not suited for me.

While I also would love it if they could find a way to just power scale any current abilities that we have unlocked whenever we level sync down, I always rationalized their decision NOT to do this as an anti-griefing measure. Inevitably, there would be a certain subset of players that would kick actual lower level players in favor of having someone get slotted in with more skills unlocked and therefore the ability to clear the dungeon 1-5 minutes faster (or slightly more comfortably, even if not actually faster), and I'm quite sure they DON'T want this happening. It's part of the same reason/logic why they made cutscenes mandatory for everyone in the MSQ roulette; no need to kick a first-timer that's stuck in the cutscene if EVERYONE'S stuck in the cutscene. No need to kick an actual lower-level player if EVERYONE is functionally that same level.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

They won't, because it isn't possible. How are you gonna "balance" decked out level 100s with loads of AoEs in their kit against babby level 15 DPS who don't even have any?

If you don't like being synced, don't do synced content. This doesn't become an issue just because it's a style of play you don't particularly care for. I don't go around saying savages/ultimates need to be "fixed" just because it's content not suited for me.

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sync damage numbers

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

If you don't like being synced, don't do synced content.

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Works for me.
I do the latest dungeon like once for the story, and then don't touch the roulettes on 90% of occasions.

But then again, some people treat the game like yoshi-p is holding a gun to your head forcing you to queue into certain things.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

That works more or less for the previous expansion. But those aren't the real problem. Going down from 100 to 50 feels terrible, and modern day 50 is certainly not similar to how it was 10 years ago.

So that argument doesn't really work.



Lower level balance is all over the place already. And in any balance discussion people claim only current tier savage+ matters. But when it's about syncing down suddenly we can't have more fun rotations because of balance considerations.

Max level balance is generally far better than the lower level stuff. So if anything it's far easier to match the intended player performance of the content by potency/mitigation nerfs for max level, than the current level sync system.

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Every melee DPS but Ninja and Monk is basically unviable for UWU and UCOB because of the simple fact being the other melees don't have Speed intrinsically baked into them. Samurai doesn't have any cooldowns so it can't even burst which is why it's off the menu too. Tanks and Healers will out DPS them.

If that isn't an indication the balancing is ONLY tailored for current end-game I dunno what else to tell anybody who is deluded enough to believe otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

If you don't like being synced, don't do synced content. This doesn't become an issue just because it's a style of play you don't particularly care for. I don't go around saying savages/ultimates need to be "fixed" just because it's content not suited for me.

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This doesn't make sense when they want queues and roulettes to have a healthy influx of people.

They just need to fix the AoE situation for low level classes. Just have at leat a basic AoE tool by level 15 when you can get to your first dungeon. And then scale upper level damage to balance it out with newbies.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

They won't, because it isn't possible. How are you gonna "balance" decked out level 100s with loads of AoEs in their kit against babby level 15 DPS who don't even have any?

If you don't like being synced, don't do synced content. This doesn't become an issue just because it's a style of play you don't particularly care for. I don't go around saying savages/ultimates need to be "fixed" just because it's content not suited for me.

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Same thing WoW does. Just make the mobs systematically scale upwards to the players levels on their end.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

They won't, because it isn't possible. How are you gonna "balance" decked out level 100s with loads of AoEs in their kit against babby level 15 DPS who don't even have any?

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Simple, by giving every DPS an aoe skill at 15. Like, duh.

As for the difference in damage, they could make it so the skills of the level 100s are massively nerfed to the point a level 15 Lancer spamming Doom Spike is competing with them.

The goal here isn't to make new players irrelevant, it's to make the game more fun for high level players.

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Originally Posted by Masha_Awandah

As for the difference in damage, they could make it so the skills of the level 100s are massively nerfed to the point a level 15 Lancer spamming Doom Spike is competing with them.

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While I agree with everyone getting a basic AoE by 15, there is the obvious issue of the other suggestion, by simply nerfing potencies so the damage is roughly equal would be massively punishing to high level players, imagine using your entire burst in a high APM job like VPR or NIN, while the little Lancer who barely has a 1-2-3 is doing basically the same damage as you, it can feel incredibly punishing for the high level player to put all the effort, which it is effort even in the context of simplified jobs we have currently to never clip GCDs, never let things drift, so on, and see no payoff other than "I got to press buttons", personally, I would find that significantly worse than what we have now.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...very-expansion

I like to point out that there have been many discussions about this that pop up both here and on reddit. Despite the comments here "hurr durr just don't do the content", this is a commonly complained-about issue.

The simple-minded solution (and the wrong one) would be to scale damage like WoW, but that doesn't work in a game that has extremely high-potency attacks later in leveling. You need to cap the potencies so that you can never exceed what you're capable of at different level brackets, likely with traits.

In fact screw it, I'm gonna bump that thread.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

While I agree with everyone getting a basic AoE by 15, there is the obvious issue of the other suggestion, by simply nerfing potencies so the damage is roughly equal would be massively punishing to high level players, imagine using your entire burst in a high APM job like VPR or NIN, while the little Lancer who barely has a 1-2-3 is doing basically the same damage as you, it can feel incredibly punishing for the high level player to put all the effort, which it is effort even in the context of simplified jobs we have currently to never clip GCDs, never let things drift, so on, and see no payoff other than "I got to press buttons", personally, I would find that significantly worse than what we have now.

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Well, I do agree that this would be a problem. One posible solution would be to make it a duty finder option.

If you want the smaller, synced moveset that a new player has, you could keep the option turned off.

If you want the full set of skills but nerfed, you could turn it on.

Default setting would be at off since that's what we already have.

They definitely should at the very least revise how jobs play at lower levels if they want to keep this system up because it makes it really hard to enjoy doing roulettes.

I like going back and experiencing previous versions of my job. It would be weird to power through Sastasha spamming Holy and Assize. It would also be a poor experience for new players. High level characters being synced down are already too overpowered.

However, for my own favorite job White Mage, I do think it gets a lot of skills way too late and this should be rebalanced -- especially the Lily system. The whole system is pointless without Afflatus Misery so I think that should be unlocked with Afflatus Solace.

I'm sure other jobs have things like this where the level you get skills could be tweaked. Or perhaps when syncing down it would make more sense for ALL of your abilities from that expansion be unlocked, regardless of which level you got them at.

I like how the newer or reworked jobs work, where even when leveled down it feels like you can use the same muscle memory for your core gameplay.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

While I agree with everyone getting a basic AoE by 15, there is the obvious issue of the other suggestion, by simply nerfing potencies so the damage is roughly equal would be massively punishing to high level players, imagine using your entire burst in a high APM job like VPR or NIN, while the little Lancer who barely has a 1-2-3 is doing basically the same damage as you, it can feel incredibly punishing for the high level player to put all the effort, which it is effort even in the context of simplified jobs we have currently to never clip GCDs, never let things drift, so on, and see no payoff other than "I got to press buttons", personally, I would find that significantly worse than what we have now.

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I need you or someone to explain to me why playing the game as you normally would is "punishing". If it's that self-harmful to do it, then at least those players will still have the option to just 1-2-3 to their heart's content.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

I need you or someone to explain to me why playing the game as you normally would is "punishing". If it's that self-harmful to do it, then at least those players will still have the option to just 1-2-3 to their heart's content.

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Because it isn't about "playing normally", it's about playing well, putting your best foot forward, and it's about seeing the effect that getting new skills has, if you just drastically remove the player's power as they get higher level, so that landing a Starcross at level 100 has the same effect as landing a Full Thrust when you were starting, what feedback that gives players about their growth?

Let me tell you about another MMO, Elder Scrolls Online, ESO at one point had an updated called One Tamriel, it does more or less this but on a global scale, the entire game including open world works that way, I played ESO for a while and you can feel how much this update was made with max level and nothing else in mind, it made the progression and leveling experience utterly miserable, things die as fast when you are level 1 as they do when you are level 50, it makes it feel like there is no point in leveling, why would you care about leveling, if it is only going to make you weaker? that's the feedback that just normalizing damage numbers independent of actual level gives people, it is miserable and it made me hate it, and this is what your suggestion would do, in a game where all meaningful combat happens in level sync'd instances.

I'll be honest, what I *really* want, isn't to have access to my full skillset at any level, but rather to have an actually good rotation at 50. I'm a DRG main, and it sucks to lack such a massive amount of skills at 50.

I don't have Battle Litany, so I can't buff the party.
I don't have Geirskogul, which means I'm missing a large chunk of my burst phase.
I don't have my 5 hits combos, so I have to change my rotation.
I don't have my 3 hits aoe combo, so I either have to buff myself with Disembowell, or spam Doom Spike without my buff.

I don't mind having downgraded versions of the skills, or being nerfed so hard that a level 15 LNC out-DPS me. I just want to play the job I like.

Best way to "fix" this is to bring more core skills to a class by level 50 and have upgrade and a few burst skills for later. I'll give Paladin as a example as it's one of the most clear examples of a job just feeling awful and nothing like a paladin until way later.

Firstly add a Early version of Holy spirit, along with req and atonement combo (theirs unused skills like savage blade that can even be used for this), Give one charge of gap closer (all tanks should have this) lastly as Paladin lacks any sustain while other tanks have some self healing Until Level 82 Give sheltron (and later intervention) a 100 potency Hot, It's something that isn't too strong but gives Paladin something in the early game in terms of sustain.

This should be done with other classes, Such as Dark knight give them a early version of TBN, DPS in general should have CORE rotational skills by level 50. Healers and some DPS should have AOE at level 15.

Any day of the week I'll take what FFXIV is doing with taking my abilities away, but still letting me feel competent over what WoW is doing and just scaling the number crazy down resulting in Lv.20's doing more damage with just 1 spell cast that Lv.50s synced down need to use their full rotation just to keep up. That's just frustrating and punishing me to go full out just because I'm higher level.