"Please be patient and wait until we have more details"

Yeah OK how did that turn out the last 572857287274838 times?

Do people not realize by now that that is an intentional trick they use to hook you?

By providing next to no details, you are free to project whatever you dream of in your wildest fantasy onto their announcements.

In return, they get plausible deniability when it turns out to be another disappointing mess.

Context pls

Patience is, however, better than wild speculation. It also leads to a lot less disappointment.

Wild speculation is also why you don't get any "details" until they've been thoroughly ironed out and (in most cases) tested.

They never tell us what they're thinking. But say they're transparent.

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Originally Posted by yesnt

Context pls

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It's in reference to what SE always do where they announce something extremely vague like "Island Sanctuary" or "job changes" but don't tell you really what it even is or why you should really be excited for it until very close to its actual release, over a year later, leading to guessing games. So you're meant to have faith this will be something you like and continue to pay money, without really knowing.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

They never tell us what they're thinking. But say they're transparent.

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They do actually tell us what they are thinking, and do it even more in interviews, it's just that they deliberately exclude mechanical or technical details until very close to release (in live letters or at fan fests).

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

don't get any "details" until they've been thoroughly ironed out

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That's likely part of it. The details aren't necessarily set in stone until they are closer to the release date. They might even have a giant plan and change it half way through. When they first mention it vaguely in an interview, it's probably just concept art and a diagram on a board that they've discussed, because concept art is all they usually have to show at that point.

It does generally seem that the Yoshida marketing strategy is to be as vague as possible, then tell people to temper expectations once something draws closer, then under deliver to even those tempered expectations.
Given, I do think Dawntrail shattered those rose tinted glasses of a lot of people and I dont see the ususal tricks working all that much anymore.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They do actually tell us what they are thinking, and do it even more in interviews, it's just that they deliberately exclude mechanical or technical details until very close to release (in live letters or at fan fests).

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Never have. Vague as possible is the best we've gotten. Ever.

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Originally Posted by bic12

Yeah OK how did that turn out the last 572857287274838 times?

Do people not realize by now that that is an intentional trick they use to hook you?

By providing next to no details, you are free to project whatever you dream of in your wildest fantasy onto their announcements.

In return, they get plausible deniability when it turns out to be another disappointing mess.

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Oh it will be a disappointment, I don't want to be a doom caller or whatever, but since SB its the same pattern so if you are old enough you are already hopeless at this point. They need to hype players for the next expansion, business side I understand it, but it will be the same stuff over and over again. I mean if you expect that they will try to change and shake things up, well... they have no idea what to do at this point. You don't like the content? You find it boring? Classes are flat and tiring? Oh well you don't understand how good they are, and besides, you should take a break and play something else, so perhaps you'll never come back again :P

This game would benefit from a clear roadmap and a demonstration of what's waiting for us in the future to gain back the goodwill.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

This game would benefit from a clear roadmap and a demonstration of what's waiting for us in the future to gain back the goodwill.

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It's that they're either presenting things to us on a very very very early stage of development, whoch wont allow them to show us more clearer details on whats to come (we still dont know what exactly beastmaster will be, will it be a reskin of blue mage with animals, or something actually unique), or they spread what sparce content they have very thin that they have to tease stuff so vague and then let people wait this long to form dispropotionate expectation they have to quell

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Originally Posted by Oizen

It does generally seem that the Yoshida marketing strategy is to be as vague as possible, then tell people to temper expectations once something draws closer, then under deliver to even those tempered expectations.
Given, I do think Dawntrail shattered those rose tinted glasses of a lot of people and I dont see the ususal tricks working all that much anymore.

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Pretty much this. The only people still pining for this game are shills, people with low standards, or just ignorant to the issues the game suffers from. The rest of have either left/unsbubbed or are criticizing the game and devs to hopefully see some improvements.

i know its been the M.O. for the entirety of the game's history, but i am really tired of the vagueness. i always have an extremely low bar so that i can hopefully be pleasantly surprised, but it would be nice to have more clarity with things. i'm really excited for beastmaster and i try not to dwell too much on what it could be because i feel i will be disappointed if i think too much.

yoshida also tends to say stuff i a way which is kinda misleading. its never wrong but what people understand (even if you dont interpret too much into it) and what it actually is are very different.

That's probably why XIV's features are usually so polarizing, rarely a middle term in regards reception.

They literally have no way to gauge how the playerbase feels about something until at least 2 weeks prior to a patch launch for example. Like how when people caught on the BLM changes just based off ingame footage of a Live Letter.

I know they'll probably never do something like WoW's PTR/open beta because they are overly concerned about spoilers, but we could use at the very least some conceptual talk about future stuff. Like for example, a more cohese talk about jobs 8.0 instead of giving 2 very vague statements that in fact contradict each other. That can be done without giving up actual details.

Maybe we'd have something to actually look forward to.

i would really like if we had surveys bi-annually or something to ask us all sorts of questions and provide feedback.

I think the devs not giving details is the problem. It is hyping up 8.0 beyond measure.

This is bad because when the first fanfest comes people will be disappointed if the Devs dont paint a clear picture.

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Originally Posted by Derio

I think the devs not giving details is the problem. It is hyping up 8.0 beyond measure.

This is bad because when the first fanfest comes people will be disappointed if the Devs dont paint a clear picture.

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That's right... We mostly get superficial teasers of stuff, maybe something more concrete by the last Fanfest, but actual footage of stuff working out only by the Media Tour.

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Originally Posted by Derio

I think the devs not giving details is the problem. It is hyping up 8.0 beyond measure.

This is bad because when the first fanfest comes people will be disappointed if the Devs dont paint a clear picture.

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Correct.

Show us -- or tell us, precisely, what we can expect to get. Or don't even say anything at all and just silently cook. Pick one Yoshida.

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Originally Posted by yesnt

Context pls

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Please look forward to it.

I am not going to hype myself about 8.0 and the direction of travel as the proof is in the delivery and no amount of speculation or hope will change my opinion till the product is playable for me to assess.

I wanted to comment about YoshiP as I did find the supposed scion contention that was mentioned in the run up to Dawntrail to be interesting and after it was released to be very underwhelming, contrived and ridiculous. So i am quite cynical about future experiences and I am not naive to things that have happened from 2.0 beta onwards as a consistent subscriber but this really did bother me as a player. So judgement is really out for my future in the game as somethings that I care about do need to improve.

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Originally Posted by PaulH

I am not going to hype myself about 8.0 and the direction of travel as the proof is in the delivery and no amount of speculation or hope will change my opinion till the product is playable for me to assess.

I wanted to comment about YoshiP as I did find the supposed scion contention that was mentioned in the run up to Dawntrail to be interesting and after it was released to be very underwhelming, contrived and ridiculous. So i am quite cynical about future experiences and I am not naive to things that have happened from 2.0 beta onwards as a consistent subscriber but this really did bother me as a player. So judgement is really out for my future in the game as somethings that I care about do need to improve.

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this was something that really irked me too. there was no tension. there were no fights. it was utterly milquetoast. i was very excited for some competition, or some ideological differences that cause a rift. nope. none of that. please enjoy peace and tacos even though urianger and thancred made the best choice with koana.

I'm neutral, I advocate for a better game still and have been sort of expecting stuff to stay the same. I still enjoy this game with my friends at times so it's likely not like ill just unsub unless they stop playing.

At the same time theirs a chance they can turn things around I think people forget back in Endwalker they still had big numbers to show what they were doing was popular, DT theirs been a clear decline through numbers which does speak louder.

I'd say just keep expectations low, don't expect better until we see better, if your only reason for playing is holding off until 8.0 I do think you should honestly try to do something else, check out 8.0 and if you don't like it really consider a long term game to spend your time playing in, for me I'll likely play more or less depending on how things go.

Please just don't get expectations too high and be disappointed been there done that with endwalker.

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Originally Posted by IttyBittyShark

this was something that really irked me too. there was no tension. there were no fights. it was utterly milquetoast. i was very excited for some competition, or some ideological differences that cause a rift. nope. none of that. please enjoy peace and tacos even though urianger and thancred made the best choice with koana.

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I've been speculating my 'ideal' way to steer the writing about the 'sides':

- Void arc wrapped up by 6.3. 6.4 introduces Wuk Lamat and focus the patch on her. 6.5 introduces Koana. 6.55 is the exposition of the situation in Tural and both siblings plead their case.

- Expansion launches. WoL must choose which side they'll go for, and Krile decides to tag along independent of the choice.

- Wuk Lamat's side is composed of Erenville and a reimagined Namikka as a personal aide (a flex role for the Duty Support). Koana's side is as we know Thancred and Urianger. Numerically, both WoL and Krile make enough party members to fill in dungeon needs.

- The Twins are absent from this expansion's main plot. I feel their reasoning to join is quite weird... Didn't they already get all this kind of society unification experiences from other expansions? Plus, if that was really the objective, why they didn't bother to bring a Garlean along?

- The WoL joining one or the other creates a "What if" the WoL and Krile joined, scenario A/B. The path is roughly the same, but there are some key differences that will make replaying it on NG+ something interesting. Can even add an achievement/reward for playing both.

- The end result won't really matter, as it really doesn't in how they conveyed the MSQ, given both siblings end up as rulers. Here, the winner always 'offers' to the other, but in different ways.

Honestly the lifecycle of the game may be exhausted and we're just clinging onto it trying to get it to feel the same way it used to.

Truth is, ARR+ was only successful because they burned the entire project to the ground and started over almost completely from scratch (with some skeletal elements preserved obviously). People saying that DT is perceived to be a bad expansion only because "players can't handle another ARR" forget this fact. If Dawntrail was the new ARR, it would have been a complete overhaul in some capacity, and it would have really refreshed the game. Instead, you have a copy-pasted formulaic content roadmap, several massive duds that consumed an immense amount of developer manpower and are barely interacted with (Chaotic and Forked Tower in particular), and the story was basically a really poor attempt at copying the beats of ShB and baiting emotional moments from writing that's less compelling than the latest shonen slop.

Don't get me wrong, I still have hope, but that hope is simply hoping that they've taken their key development team members and are making a new MMO with them or something, because god knows they can't be the ones actually working on the project in a major capacity right now considering the state it's in. For now, I'll try to keep my chin up for 9 more days till my sub expires, then I'll only be back for free login campaigns and maybe a month when 7.4 drops since the only cope I have left in my system is that they're going to resurrect Brute Abominator for M11 Undertaker-style and finally do one based thing this expansion. Join me. Unsubbing is the best course of action for everyone.

Even back in 1.x we would ask something and more often then not the answer was "Just wait until 2.0!" and that was it. Then they only delivered half of what they promised and under delivered on quite a few things, which caused a lot of questions, which then led to the termination of one of the best groups of community reps I have ever known and created the Great Wall of Silence that we get today where they tell us even less, explain nothing and refuse to fix systems until either the next patch, or worse, the next expansion if they bother to fix them at all. Which they usually don't.

They are so scared of any criticism that they have created an environment that is much harsher and even more critical than it should be due to the lack of communication and poorly thought out or executed, broken/awful systems they have no want to fix. So many of the problems they and we have could be fixed if Yoshida actually talked to us instead of hiding behind carefully curated questions and nothing burger talking points followed by an hour of trying to hawk their newest wares.

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Originally Posted by Derio

I think the devs not giving details is the problem. It is hyping up 8.0 beyond measure.

This is bad because when the first fanfest comes people will be disappointed if the Devs dont paint a clear picture.

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This is intentional because they don't want to say something is confirmed only to not deliver. Does that make the vagueness better? No. But the general playerbase doesn't pay anywhere near as much attention. Which is what they bank on.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I think people forget back in Endwalker they still had big numbers to show what they were doing was popular

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Lol what, EW saw the largest decline in playerbase. It was also the start of complaints becoming mainstream and popular (e.g. Zepla).

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Originally Posted by All_Nonsense

Unsubbing is the best course of action for everyone.

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Yes let this game die already