I've seen posts on SAM LB, but what are folks' thoughts on Meteodrive?

There are a lot of complaints regarding the Samurai LB as being 'unfun' or problematic.

I don't really care about Zantetsuken, as you can play around it -- run away if you get the debuff, try to CC the SAM, etc. There are opportunities to 'deal' with it. I've been Scamurai'd a few times and it does suck, but it also means I was probably tunneling on a fight, getting careless/greedy or just got caught. It happens.

What does annoy me, and what I'm curious about other people's thoughts on, is the Monk LB, Meteodrive.

Moreso than other 'problematic' abilities in PVP, I dislike Meteodrive because it is an automatic animation lock with no real way to deal with it. While it is only single target, a good MNK who can isolate 'key' targets in FL can turn the tide and there's really no counterplay to it beyond social distancing all enemy monks. Especially in this stun/crowd control heavy meta we're in at the moment.

Should Meteodrive be adjusted? Is it fine? Should it be deleted (yes :P)?

Curious what folks think.

FL I think it's fine, personally. As you say, it's single target. It's not an LB that is going to take you out, cause you sniffed in the direction of a SAM at the edge of your AOE, through a group of 8+ enemy

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

FL I think it's fine, personally. As you say, it's single target. It's not an LB that is going to take you out, cause you sniffed in the direction of a SAM at the edge of your AOE, through a group of 8+ enemy

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I do feel it is much stronger in CC and forgot to include that. But it is balanced by the fact you can see opponent LB bars. My comment was moreso for Meteodrive in PVP in general rather than a specific mode.

The amount of times those lbs been nerf I don't either as a threat now in or MCH... Scary business but I also been pvping for a long time so idk if I'm a good gauge for it.

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Originally Posted by Vatom

The amount of times those lbs been nerf I don't either as a threat now in or MCH... Scary business but I also been pvping for a long time so idk if I'm a good gauge for it.

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I don't view Marksman's Spite as an issue, either, because there is counterplay to it. If you get hit with Wildfire, line of sight them or use Guard. Smarter MCHs will use Air Anchor in conjunction with stuff like Bravery or the Secure node buff, but if a MCH is able to hit you with Air Anchor, you're likely out of position or they snuck up on you.

Meteo, especially in how useless Purify is in the current meta, is really good at securing kills. We saw BRD get adjustments (and I'd argue they could probably use a little more tweaking) with how easy it is to lockdown a single target. Not sure if MNKs need them, too, or if the animation lock on Meteo is a concern. Even with the NIN LB you can move while they're performing the action (unless they're securing a kill.)

Coming from the monk main perspective, I think it's one of the most toxic LBs. I like it in FL because it keeps people honest. If people are really good at DRK, GNB, SAM, etc., they can be really hard to kill. Nothing like MNK to punish them. Even on a losing team, I can reliably take out someone I know is the shotcaller or anchor.

I think it's balanced, but not fun.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

Coming from the monk main perspective, I think it's one of the most toxic LBs. I like it in FL because it keeps people honest. If people are really good at DRK, GNB, SAM, etc., they can be really hard to kill. Nothing like MNK to punish them. Even on a losing team, I can reliably take out someone I know is the shotcaller or anchor.

I think it's balanced, but not fun.

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Yeah, Meteodrive tilts me, haha, which is why I'm trying to avoid a kneejerk proclamation. I do think it is important to have melees be impactful in PVP and MNK being a hard counter to some jobs (I'd argue VPR is another big one) is definitely one of those.

Its a single target LB that doesn't do much damage on its own. The target needs to already be at low HP or the monk will have to prepare a combo to kill, usually pressure point in CC. It does combo nicely with smite in FL. It also puts the monk using it in an animation lock making it not particularly safe to use, especially in frontlines. Its probably the worst LB in all of PVP.

People just hate it because it feels personal when a monk "picks you to die", yet when they die from many of the AOE LBs jobs have they won't feel that way.

I've played around 1k~ FL matches on monk so far this year and around 450 CC matches on monk. Its not a good LB, it doesn't have the ability to swing matches like other LBs can. If anything it needs to be reduced to 1 minute again. Monk is probably the worst job in CC and FL premades. Its a good and fun job for solo queue play in FL though, which is why I play monk so much.

Meteo drive doesn't kill like 10 people at the same time for breathing on the monk xD

Meteo drive doesn't make the mnk immortal like eventide or pld lb

Meteo drive doesn't take control from the player for 5+ seconds like reaper or DNC LB

it used to combo with pressure point but it no longer does that so if we are going to continue nerfing it we should def nerf all of the other mentioned classes' LBs also! :D

I feel like LB's should be able to counter other LB's. I feel that would be more interesting and give some counter play, without really nerfing LB's. Idk.

I agree with you that it is annoying, sometimes even toxic. Because in fl mnk can just lb you then kick you back into their alliance. Pretty much 100% death. It is very personal. It is like a 'I pick you to die moment'

Meteo drive just feels personal because it is a single target lb... It animation lock you but you can still receive healing. If you didn't die in that 3 sec window you can guard into recuperate, shield or some movement ability..

You are right it annoys me as well. But I do remember once a great man told me that, how ones feeling about an lb is just subjective...

I can't complain because then I laugh at a fellow Paladin using their LB and then a Monk using their LB on a sole enemy machinist. Poor MCH, but I was like why, that was so unnecessary haha. It is annoying when I get double monk LB'd into Dancer LB though. Just as Bugs Bunny has said, if you can't beat em, join em. (Actually I am not sure if I will use either Monk or Dancer, maybe dancer, I need to try it to see if I enjoy it first)

I love it - but I am a biased Monk lover, would be nice if the cooldown was back down to 60s though to match Reaper.

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Originally Posted by NevaehQuest

I agree with you that it is annoying, sometimes even toxic. Because in fl mnk can just lb you then kick you back into their alliance. Pretty much 100% death. It is very personal. It is like a 'I pick you to die moment'

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I disagree with your perspective about SAM's LB in that other thread, but on this, we can agree on.

It's not so much about how game-changing it is compared to other LBs (though I'd argue it can be if you're using it on a high-value target like a shot-calling DRK), but that it, as correctly pointed out in the OP, basically has no counterplay against it and is quite basically a "hey, F you" button.

It doesn't matter if the LB's innate damage isn't normally enough to kill you, you are forcibly turned into a sitting duck no different from a sandbagger for a few seconds. You are free to get hit by other enemies while it's happening, and in large skirmishes like FL, that's lethal for anything not rocking one of the more potent defensive skills at that moment. You could have BH5 and have full MP and Purify ready, and the reflexive awareness to Guard a MCH's LB, and be doing everything right, but if a MNK with any level of proficiency picks you for their LB while you are even marginally in a position for their allies to follow-up with during the animation lock, you are dead. That's why it's essentially a "F you" button.

I remember when MNK got nerfed a few patches ago (maybe around the same time as AST's nerf?) and people absolutely thought it was justified because up until then it was just a toxic job to play against in CC with a free kill button every couple minutes or so.

Fortunately, I find actually skilled MNKs in FL to be mercifully rare. Most MNKs, a lot like your run-of-the-mill MCHs, have a trigger finger on their LB and will just use their LB with no set-up or thought about timing, and then you can just pull your pants back up and walk/run away after a couple Recuperates.

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

Meteo drive doesn't take control from the player for 5+ seconds like reaper or DNC LB

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Except it absolutely does? The whole time your character is locked without access to Recup or Purify getting knocked into the air for about 3 whole seconds? I'd say it lasts just as long as RPR or DNC's LBs unless the DNC manages to follow-up with something.

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Originally Posted by Trevski

There are a lot of complaints regarding the Samurai LB as being 'unfun' or problematic.

I don't really care about Zantetsuken, as you can play around it -- run away if you get the debuff, try to CC the SAM, etc. There are opportunities to 'deal' with it. I've been Scamurai'd a few times and it does suck, but it also means I was probably tunneling on a fight, getting careless/greedy or just got caught. It happens.

What does annoy me, and what I'm curious about other people's thoughts on, is the Monk LB, Meteodrive.

Moreso than other 'problematic' abilities in PVP, I dislike Meteodrive because it is an automatic animation lock with no real way to deal with it. While it is only single target, a good MNK who can isolate 'key' targets in FL can turn the tide and there's really no counterplay to it beyond social distancing all enemy monks. Especially in this stun/crowd control heavy meta we're in at the moment.

Should Meteodrive be adjusted? Is it fine? Should it be deleted (yes :P)?

Curious what folks think.

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Both in CC and FL, it's almost generally a guaranteed kill, not on its own necessarily (it works solo on lower HP targets), but if your team is there and also attacking the target, they're as good as dead. I remember making a thread about it back in Endwalker since back then with a two button combo you could delete any ranged job on your own, which is not the case anymore, but essentially yes, it's an auto win button. Just press it when you know your team can focus the target and they'll die. The only way they may not die is when they have a pocket AST/WHM or even a PLD's cover to save their ass, which may not always be something your team has.

Generally when you get meteodrived, it's essentially "Guess I die lol". Can't guard it, doesn't do what the EN tooltip actually says it does (twice less damage when removing guard)... It does everything.

The problem is that without its power, MNK would just turn into a glorified VPR, and VPR is a one trick pony that's just getting flattened in pvp because either Scales are bad, or either they're broken OP like before last patch. But I'd have a lot less issues with it if it was melee range for starters. 25y is just lunatic.

I do find it has immense value to just mess with FL premades though, for sure. Never gets old.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

I disagree with your perspective about SAM's LB in that other thread, but on this, we can agree on.

It's not so much about how game-changing it is compared to other LBs (though I'd argue it can be if you're using it on a high-value target like a shot-calling DRK), but that it, as correctly pointed out in the OP, basically has no counterplay against it and is quite basically a "hey, F you" button.

It doesn't matter if the LB's innate damage isn't normally enough to kill you, you are forcibly turned into a sitting duck no different from a sandbagger for a few seconds. You are free to get hit by other enemies while it's happening, and in large skirmishes like FL, that's lethal for anything not rocking one of the more potent defensive skills at that moment. You could have BH5 and have full MP and Purify ready, and the reflexive awareness to Guard a MCH's LB, and be doing everything right, but if a MNK with any level of proficiency picks you for their LB while you are even marginally in a position for their allies to follow-up with during the animation lock, you are dead. That's why it's essentially a "F you" button.

I remember when MNK got nerfed a few patches ago (maybe around the same time as AST's nerf?) and people absolutely thought it was justified because up until then it was just a toxic job to play against in CC with a free kill button every couple minutes or so.

Fortunately, I find actually skilled MNKs in FL to be mercifully rare. Most MNKs, a lot like your run-of-the-mill MCHs, have a trigger finger on their LB and will just use their LB with no set-up or thought about timing, and then you can just pull your pants back up and walk/run away after a couple Recuperates.



Except it absolutely does? The whole time your character is locked without access to Recup or Purify getting knocked into the air for about 3 whole seconds? I'd say it lasts just as long as RPR or DNC's LBs unless the DNC manages to follow-up with something.

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well honestly I think sam'lb is balanced and super ok in cc. all my perspective is about their lbs in fl.
all the pvp skill was designed for cc so .... when u put a 3 sec unstoppable stun in fl... it created a hug balanced issues cause now 24 player is hitting u at once instead of 5...

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Originally Posted by NevaehQuest

well honestly I think sam'lb is balanced and super ok in cc. all my perspective is about their lbs in fl.
all the pvp skill was designed for cc so .... when u put a 3 sec unstoppable stun in fl... it created a hug balanced issues cause now 24 player is hitting u at once instead of 5...

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Your complaint about Meteordrive doesn’t really make sense.
This action has been functioning this way ever since the 6.1 changes, so nothing about it is actually new or suddenly broken.

What’s changed is player behavior.
Monks are now more willing to use Meteordrive as a CC tool instead of holding it as a finisher.
The reason is because SE gave them Smite, which is a far more reliable option to secure kills.
With that safety net, Meteordrive is now an option instead of a core finisher

That change in usage is why it feels more impactful now
Not because the skill itself has desgin issue
In fact, this makes Meteordrive an effective countermeasure against unstoppable players, which adds healthy counterplay to the mode rather than removing it.
So, unless you can point to an actual imbalance in numbers or mechanics, I don’t see any solid ground to claim Meteordrive is an issue.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Your complaint about Meteordrive doesn’t really make sense.
This action has been functioning this way ever since the 6.1 changes, so nothing about it is actually new or suddenly broken.

What’s changed is player behavior.
Monks are now more willing to use Meteordrive as a CC tool instead of holding it as a finisher.
The reason is because SE gave them Smite, which is a far more reliable option to secure kills.
With that safety net, Meteordrive is now an option instead of a core finisher

That change in usage is why it feels more impactful now
Not because the skill itself has desgin issue
In fact, this makes Meteordrive an effective countermeasure against unstoppable players, which adds healthy counterplay to the mode rather than removing it.
So, unless you can point to an actual imbalance in numbers or mechanics, I don’t see any solid ground to claim Meteordrive is an issue.

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Honestly is fine, I agreed with u... like I said its annoying but its not super op. Like most of the things in fl.

This thread is pretty funny.

If you regularly die to meteodrive in frontlines its quite literally a skill issue. If you stay with your alliance all fight no monk will ever get a chance to use it on you. If a monk actually jumps into an enemy alliance to meteodrive someone she will almost certainly die for it. Again, meteodrive stunlocks the monk doing it and the monk can also take damage/CC while doing it. It also won't kill anyone without them already being near death, having allies help kill or the target needs to be at low enough hp that the monk can smite/pressure point combo with it. If you play smart and safe (keep your HP near full at all times!) you will never get hit by a meteodrive unless the monk is suicidal. If a monk is willing to suicide meteodrive you when you are surrounded by allies they will likely fail to kill you and also die for it. Only a monk with BH4/5 could potentially meteodrive/smite kill someone like this and I doubt they are willing to sacrifice their BH just to potentially screw you over in particular.

If you are late to pull back from an attack and get hit by a meteodrive that's also a skill issue on your part. Know when to pull back. Keep your map open and be aware. The last couple of people to pull back normally die whether its from a meteodrive or many of the binds/stuns jobs have. Ninja is the only job I've seen regularly escape from such situations.

If you isolate yourself and get ambushed by a monk that's on you. Running around by yourself in frontlines means you were asking to die.

Every job that has an AOE stun is more oppressive then monk LB could ever hope to be. Dancer is the second best job in FL (only behind DRK of course) because of how broken their LB is. If you get hit by a dancer LB after a DRK succ do you just blame the game mode/premades or the dancer? Or do you realize its your fault for not being aware the DRK was about dive in? Mark DRKs when you see them at the start of the game. When they are obviously about to use salted earth you can purify and run away. You will dodge the salted earth and get out of the dancer LB in time (guard won't work).

Monk in FL is quite strong if you know how to play with it. With monk your job isn't to really enter in a large group and do earth's reply because of how slow this ability now is. Yes you can pre fire it and jump to someone but you risk death. Best way of playing this class is to annoy enemy team and make them all follow you. This is literally the Monk's purpose. Once half of enemy team follows you, you already did your job. They will miss points, miss bases and get picked randomly while you do cat and mouse game. I played it quite a few games in FL and everytime I'd just chase couple of people, save earth's reply for big heal, kick someone who is chasing me and just run away and then come back once I see that they are turning another direction. This way you can easily get 18+ kills if you also bring smite and lots damage post-game stat. In FL this class is quite fun. Meteodrive LB is okay in FL, very useful to deal with high red targets. Extremely useful there.

As for CC; Monk was nerfed and was a garbage job. Now it got buffed again as Square cannot allow this class to not be weak for more than one patch. We all remember season 9... Anyways, against a full team of shields and heals, this class won't be great. You can LB but your team wont have enough damage to kill anyone anyways. Against teams that don't have big shields and rather have someone like whm, this class will be extremely great. Monk had same LB time as whm so it could counter it at every pace.

Is this LB really annoying? It always has been and is still now. Completely locks you from doing anything. It's not done anymore to single-handedly kill you 100-0 (there are combos to do that but require proper setup and its long), but rather as a CC tool so they catch who is most important and their team can finish them off. Quite strong in good hands. Some other people will use this LB to just target one guy who they hate. Low skilled people can and will manage to turn victory around just because this one single button can win the overtime. Same as Ninja's lb.

I really always hated monk specially during season 9. Now it's more bearable as they removed their stun but its still pain once you realize that you are a playing one of the squishy classes and become their pray 24/7.