The Rising Feels Like an Apology - SPOILERS

You've been warned of spoilers.


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I, for one, am glad that he said these words. It's clear that he understands that not every decision was a great one with Dawntrail, and he's willing to learn from those mistakes.

the rising is up now?

Yeah, he is 100% aware that people ain't feelin a lot of 7.xx; and, if history is any indication, he wants to make things right with 8.0

And I'm happy to give him that chance.

(also, I absolutely love doing this quest every year, and this years version was fantastic too) ❤️

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

the rising is up now?

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Yep, did it early this morning ^_^

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Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora

I, for one, am glad that he said these words. It's clear that he understands that not every decision was a great one with Dawntrail, and he's willing to learn from those mistakes.

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he said something similar on the 2nd or third rising... point is CBU3 and Yoshi stopped listening to the community again and they need to stop doing that. it shouldn't come to an apology every few years.

they're empty corpo platitudes.

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Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora

You've been warned of spoilers.


https://i.imgur.com/6rJtGdg.png

https://i.imgur.com/tLqvYyy.png

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Isn't this something he says every rising by now? I honestly can't remember, it's just a blur to me.

I enjoyed the quest either way.

Hope the JP script is the same. Nothing worse than getting your hopes up from a localizer who is trying to soften the tone or message over just translating the dang words.

This might be a good moment to point out that the devs have never undone a single change made to the game ever, regardless of how wrongful or unpopular it was. The captions are basically a statement that a politician would give; whereby to 'us' the players, we of course read this that they perhaps are now finally willing to fix mistakes by undoing them- but in the dev perspective, they know what we think it means, but have planted the wording this way to grant themselves an excuse to repeating the same mistakes in a different way with a different gameplay element or piece of content. Look not to what is being said and look for what is not being said. In all video games, gameplay beats graphics. More fun can be had with a pad of paper and a pen/cil, than with a flashy light up robot toy that speaks. We all want to believe that things will be different in 8.0, but I doubt people want to fall for that again.

The track record of how the game has been handled for over 10 years is why any would-be new players should absolutely be warned away from the game, as the trajectory of gameplay and fun has always been downwards in XIV's life- it's just that the community did not have enough data from ARR-Stormblood to know this for sure. We do now. This game's playerbase was overwhelmingly built through word-of-mouth and not paid advertising, so it's only fair and right that we let prospective players know how the game has been mismanaged and how it will continue to be so, thus the river must flow in reverse as the game declines. I would recommend not pre-ordering 8.0, and wait for word-of-mouth from others on whether or not the game is back on course (again, like how the playerbase was built before). Of course, rebuilding trust with the playerbase doesn't have to wait for 8.0- lets have those DRK/DRG job action and gaze restorations in 7.4.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Hope the JP script is the same. Nothing worse than getting your hopes up from a localizer who is trying to soften the tone or message over just translating the dang words.

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The French version, that is usually far more close to the JP one than the english one, say the same things for most of it.

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

The French version, that is usually far more close to the JP one than the english one, say the same things for most of it.

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Ouch, that must suck then for the director to have to play damage control so hard they had to bake it into an event. I would love to be a fly on the wall of SE's investor meeting after they chewed out Kiryu for XIV's performance. I agree with the other poster though, lip service is cheap, let's see them actually fix the issues plaguing the game or see them double down on bad decisions thinking they know better than the people who actually play their game.

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Originally Posted by Zofian

This might be a good moment to point out that the devs have never undone a single change made to the game ever, regardless of how wrongful or unpopular it was.

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Sounds like somebody missed out on the first two iterations of Diadem.

They also adjusted Eureka Pagos and reverted greed-only alliance raids due to player feedback.

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Originally Posted by Zofian

This might be a good moment to point out that the devs have never undone a single change made to the game ever, regardless of how wrongful or unpopular it was.

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This is not entirely true. While it doesn't happen very often they have indeed undone changes they have made due to community backlash. The biggest one I can remember is when they attempted to make loot in the 24 man alliance raids to be greed only. The community in all regions revolted and it lasted... less than a month if I am remembering right. It was back in Stormblood so it's been a bit lol.

That said, I really wish they would actually be more open to changing things instead of sticking to their guns until the end of the expac. It's starting to remind me of how Blizzard was acting up through Shadowlands.

I came here after doing the event. The same lines OP highlighted got me too. Glad to support the game. If they can turn it around once, they can do it again.

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Originally Posted by Kaidence

I came here after doing the event. The same lines OP highlighted got me too. Glad to support the game. If they can turn it around once, they can do it again.

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I agree with this sentiment the most. It's still the game we've all grown to love over the past 12 years, it's just had a really bad slump these last two years. I am looking forward to getting rid of Dawntrail as much as the rest of you, but I'm hopeful that they can return to their roots.

It's interesting to me that he used the word humility. Does that mean they have been operating under the opposite pretense i.e., hubris? It does feel that way to me. Its also strange that you need to reminded to look back on your experiences.

The state of XIV utterly perplexes me. This studio had the world (basically) in their hands, and said "no thank you". They had critically acclaimed storytelling, then decided to literally blast through it, sacrificing the Garlemald arc in the process, only to cram the finale into 6.0, rush past a potential Void expansion into DT. I understand pursuing a new story, but the progression from Endwalker feels so inconsistent and frankly, uninspired, in every way possible including thematically. The Zodiark arc was all building toward this big finale, and then hastily ran away from it for what exactly? It feels like there was zero real plan.

And we know this don't we? Yoshi P said they are just trying random things to see what sticks. Huh? I just do not understand. And before my posting privileges end, I just have to express how baffled I am at the decision to risk (and botch) the MSQ, for a story like DT, which has no sense of intent and purpose about it. And before anyone says it, no ARR was not also like that. On the contrary, ARR was overflowing with plot threads, many of which bore fruit in subsequent expansions.

And thats before you get to the array of gameplay issues. The MSQ is THE casual factor of the game. Its is the critical component that keeps all other content relevant outside of savage+ content.

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Originally Posted by Zofian

This might be a good moment to point out that the devs have never undone a single change made to the game ever, regardless of how wrongful or unpopular it was.

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I mean they did an AST rework recently that was half a step Back to what it was before the rework before it.

Also, WAR in StB and StB lilies. The multiple counts of SCH losing energy drain just to get it back a patch later.

It's not common, but it happens often enough to be a thing.

I mean it's one thing to just type these words that are in the game, I think a lot of players are long over the days of just taking Yoshi P's words at face value anymore. We need to see the results of this if you want to get back some of that trust that the team has lost with their loosing their way as he has put it

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

They had critically acclaimed storytelling, then decided to literally blast through it, sacrificing the Garlemald arc in the process, only to cram the finale into 6.0, rush past a potential Void expansion into DT.

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This is going to be an out of pocket nitpick, but I really don't feel like they rushed past a void expansion. This IS the same game that introduced a core plot point in HW patch cycle only to keep it totally on the backburner until bringing it back for Shadowbringers. You can also say the same for Domans in the story being introduced in ARR patch cycle but seeing their major relevance in Stormblood, as well as the whole equating loyalty to Varis (in Stormblood patch cycle) to a faith (which once again is not relevant for an entire expansion). FF14 likes to place pieces on the board without feeling the need to then move said piece constantly.

Oh look. More words. When are the actions coming so all these words actually manifest meaning?

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

It's interesting to me that he used the word humility. Does that mean they have been operating under the opposite pretense i.e., hubris? It does feel that way to me. Its also strange that you need to reminded to look back on your experiences.

The state of XIV utterly perplexes me. This studio had the world (basically) in their hands, and said "no thank you". They had critically acclaimed storytelling, then decided to literally blast through it, sacrificing the Garlemald arc in the process, only to cram the finale into 6.0, rush past a potential Void expansion into DT. I understand pursuing a new story, but the progression from Endwalker feels so inconsistent and frankly, uninspired, in every way possible including thematically. The Zodiark arc was all building toward this big finale, and then hastily ran away from it for what exactly? It feels like there was zero real plan.

And we know this don't we? Yoshi P said they are just trying random things to see what sticks. Huh? I just do not understand. And before my posting privileges end, I just have to express how baffled I am at the decision to risk (and botch) the MSQ, for a story like DT, which has no sense of intent and purpose about it. And before anyone says it, no ARR was not also like that. On the contrary, ARR was overflowing with plot threads, many of which bore fruit in subsequent expansions.

And thats before you get to the array of gameplay issues. The MSQ is THE casual factor of the game. Its is the critical component that keeps all other content relevant outside of savage+ content.

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His explanation was that ShB was "too successful" for EW to have proper buildup, so they compressed 2 expansions(Garlemald and the Final Days) to capitalize on the momentum they had at the cost of quality. A lot of people here seem to support that decision, because to paraphrase them, the fascists deserved to be destroyed off camera and the only downside is that some survived.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

because to paraphrase them, the fascists deserved to be destroyed off camera and the only downside is that some survived.

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That can't be true... right?
Nervous_Chuckle.jpg

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Originally Posted by Daralii

A lot of people here seem to support that decision, because to paraphrase them, the fascists deserved to be destroyed off camera and the only downside is that some survived.

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idk why people are so against defeating the big bad evil empire themselves personally.

Talk is cheap. I'd rather believe the actions over a big corporate talk.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

His explanation was that ShB was "too successful" for EW to have proper buildup, so they compressed 2 expansions(Garlemald and the Final Days) to capitalize on the momentum they had at the cost of quality. A lot of people here seem to support that decision, because to paraphrase them, the fascists deserved to be destroyed off camera and the only downside is that some survived.

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I am aware of his bs exuses. Sounds like they just wanted to end the arc asap, again for reasons unknown. Rush to what? 7.0 was a big ball of nothing.

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Originally Posted by Khutulun

This is going to be an out of pocket nitpick, but I really don't feel like they rushed past a void expansion. This IS the same game that introduced a core plot point in HW patch cycle only to keep it totally on the backburner until bringing it back for Shadowbringers. You can also say the same for Domans in the story being introduced in ARR patch cycle but seeing their major relevance in Stormblood, as well as the whole equating loyalty to Varis (in Stormblood patch cycle) to a faith (which once again is not relevant for an entire expansion). FF14 likes to place pieces on the board without feeling the need to then move said piece constantly.

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Early game has several plot threads still unresolved to this day. Or plot elements introduced then forgotten (recent patch seemed ideal to bring up Dynamis?). But that makes sense-- in its infancy they did not yet know exactly how the arc would finish. And that is my point. It appears that whenever they began developing the patches and 7.0, there was no real plan. There was maybe one plot thread established-- the key. The story involving Calyx feels 100% made off the cuff as well.

Yoshi P has recently stated he now has an idea where the story is going. My question is why there was no idea before 7.3? I am throwing out Void as just one possibility that would have made sense following EW.

And again especially involving the aforementioned condensing of the first arc. All the time and resources were saved, to according to him, "try and see how players react". That didn't instill confidence in me, as it turns out for good reason.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

My question is why there was no idea before 7.3?

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They told us in the lead up to Dawntrail that it was going to be a "summer vacation" or a break. I think they meant that literally. It's like the episode of a series after big action takes place to reset.

I think they heard a lot of feedback from Shadowbrigners and especially Endwalker that the story was too heavy and wanted a light breather. Endwalker was a lot to process emotionally. I think they were trying to make Dawntrail more lighthearted.

Obviously for a lot of people it didn't hit that way or they didn't achieve that but I don't think there is anything wrong with having a brief interlude in a story before you start moving forward again with something major.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

They told us in the lead up to Dawntrail that it was going to be a "summer vacation" or a break.

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It was a vacation in the sense that you're on a cruise and your next-door neighbor, Wuk Lamat, keeps asking to borrow towels and convincing you to go with them on the ship and you spend the whole time listening about their family and you just want to go home.

Eventually you get rid of her and then you're dealing with other people's drama and some whining about what it's like to die.

Worst vacation ever.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

They told us in the lead up to Dawntrail that it was going to be a "summer vacation" or a break. I think they meant that literally. It's like the episode of a series after big action takes place to reset.

I think they heard a lot of feedback from Shadowbrigners and especially Endwalker that the story was too heavy and wanted a light breather. Endwalker was a lot to process emotionally. I think they were trying to make Dawntrail more lighthearted.

Obviously for a lot of people it didn't hit that way or they didn't achieve that but I don't think there is anything wrong with having a brief interlude in a story before you start moving forward again with something major.

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I guess it was just the way Yoshi P talked about the story before that felt so deliberate. I recall a moment when he mentioned the color platinum was a source of inspiration for Endwalker and he wanted players to really think about it once it ended. But when it came time for DT it was just misleading marketing, as you mentioned i in your post. I think that is what did not land-- the idea we were competing with the other Scions in some kind of tournament setting while vacationing and doing more slice of life kind of stuff. Maybe that would not have worked either but I dunno, I think he seemed checked out for this xpac almost like he did not even direct it. Could be a workload thing I am unsure.

It just strikes me as odd that we went from a really ambitious arc to vibes. Now Yoshi P is talking about story again, claiming he wants to explore what it means to be human. That is supposed to be the over arching theme of this arc.

I think its fine if they wanted an interlude, and I see the logic behind heavy material, but imo they also should have just considered that that's what was selling...

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Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora

I, for one, am glad that he said these words. It's clear that he understands that not every decision was a great one with Dawntrail, and he's willing to learn from those mistakes.

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Or that his hands were tied when it came to many of the game’s content. I doubt he had full control over many decisions regarding DT.

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Originally Posted by TeresaFortell

Or that his hands were tied when it came to many of the game’s content. I doubt he had full control over many decisions regarding DT.

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I completely agree with this as nearly everything felt off until we got into late 7.2 and 7.3. It really felt like another major power at SE was calling the shots and you could see it on Yoshi’s face between 6.1 through 7.1. He had the look of “I’m following orders” in his eyes. Now that the meddlers have seen what a massive financial disaster they have wrought, Yoshi is hopefully back in command to right the ship.

Words are words
show me some huge changes in 8.0 then i'll be happy

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Originally Posted by TeresaFortell

Or that his hands were tied when it came to many of the game’s content. I doubt he had full control over many decisions regarding DT.

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I will admit, i wouldnt be surprised if the huge wow exodus gave square enix bigger britches than they deserved, and they thought they could steer ff14 better than he could.
Sounds like exactly the type of stupid thing square would do given their mobile game and nft practices...

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

idk why people are so against defeating the big bad evil empire themselves personally.

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I had zero problems defeating Garlemald, considering they were the antagonist, and seeing the damage they caused as a whole. The problems arose when they rushed through the entire arc without giving it enough time to develop, as there were several nuances.
From forced conscription, to anger by the other races pushing Garleans further north due to a lack of magic ability, just being a few.

I dislike Dawntrail—most aspects of it.
But mainly it is not the Summer Holiday that was told, packaged, and never delivered.
I am tired of world-ending events and ascians. I want to feel that everyday adventurer vibe again and throw myself into a lake to look for treasure or relics.

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Originally Posted by EchoingPulse

I dislike Dawntrail—most aspects of it.. I want to feel that everyday adventurer vibe again and throw myself into a lake to look for treasure or relics.

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What are you looking for in content? Lowkey treasure hunting is in OC, two new map zones, the desert 100 dungeon with the serpent of ronka. There is storyline with the crafting jobs, there’s job quests that are fairly low key with sleeping magic and laughing magic. Hildebrand has been consistently humorous and nothing world shattering.

Words are meaningless if there is no action behind it.

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Originally Posted by Kaidence

What are you looking for in content? Lowkey treasure hunting is in OC, two new map zones, the desert 100 dungeon with the serpent of ronka. There is storyline with the crafting jobs, there’s job quests that are fairly low key with sleeping magic and laughing magic. Hildebrand has been consistently humorous and nothing world shattering.

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I think the examples you gave are missing the point, a bit. There's a difference between 'treasure hunting' as an activity and as a main story, because we've been doing map treasure hunting since heavensward. The crafter job quests have been a thing for the last 2 expansions, the job quests, just like dawntrail as a whole, didn't feel like they had serious consequences.

Just because treasure hunting is an activity doesn't make it feel as though we're an everyday adventurer- I know I do maps because I'm after the money, and nothing else. I'll be bored to tears hoping for the yan mount to drop. Compare that to the drowned city of Skalla's quests in post stormblood, which is what EchoingPulse was likely referring to.

We have nothing that serious to do at that time. So when Arenvald and Alphinaud catch wind of the rumors of the treasure left behind by the mad king, we go on a treasure hunt to go find it. We're doing this, as part of the main story for fun.

I think it was an apology. It's kindly worded, corporate language acknowledging that DT a hit, and I'm okay with that. He's required to word it delicately from his position. The actual little quest was cute.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Words are words
show me some huge changes in 8.0 then i'll be happy

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This. Anyone paying attention knows that Yoshi's words are mostly hollow PR speak. Esp since he has said this or something similar before, if not in every rising event. I will not accept an apology until I see actual well thought out and tested changes in the game, not before. All we know so far is there will be tiers to content, which sounds like they are doing about as little as they could get away with. They need to really loop us in to what is going on behind the scenes, even if they cannot make everything work, at least let us know what you are working on. And if even half of what they say cannot be done, I would 100% accept that as long as we got a reason as to why with a follow up on what is still being worked on. It's called communication and it's more important now than it's been since 1.0.

Yoshi is seriously the master of "make people feel bad for me".
It's a trait that narcissists are exceptional at.

You do wrong by them, and then spin it in such a way that you are the victim, and they should feel bad for being mad.
In this case, it's once again "Ignore all player feedback until the players are outraged, and then emotionally manipulate until it's a bad thing to be angry about being ignored"

You see this kind of behavior in a lot of toxic relationships with that kind of personality.