Request: Implement ACT in game

Baseline, since the community knows dev's use this 3rd party sanctioned mod.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d0/4e...0502063126.gif

who even cares about dps numbers anyway?

I agree with having some sort of self-parsing system in place. But not that you can see what others are doing. Do this for DPS and HPS and maybe even damage mitigated (for tanks).
Maybe also have a rating, going from 1 to 10, or D- to S+, when it comes to damage output for your class, compared to everyone else who plays that class in that fight.

Fact is that people will gatekeep if they can see what other people's DPS/HPS is, and that is undesirable. But having some sort of rating, some way to figure out if your own rotation and playstyle is fine and competitive with others, would be good. It's not toxic, it will actually improve everyone's gameplay.

Add in potential tips with "use more AOE skills according to your class" or "manage your gauge better, you were overcapping", or "Remember to apply your DOTs" or "You overhealed a lot, maybe use more damage spells if everyone is healthy!".... stuff like that will be amazing to teach players to play their class and just improve the general game experience for *everyone*, without making it all about optimization.

Lol

To be honest, even if they wanted to, with the pace at which they do these things, you'll be waiting until 2034 anyway.

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

who even cares about dps numbers anyway?

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People who like to brush your face with: "haha i did more dps, you can try your best but i did better loser". Mentality of these players are present here btw. Same as people who watch aggro meter and determine by that who has the best dps. Some people will grief you on purpose just to return their dps. Some people will cry how their crits aren't fair as viper did best dps. Then I had plenty of people that would want a fight reset if they messed their starting rotation or died at mid fight, even though it was still a clear.

Plus people love logs for savages / ultimates where you get kicked if your logs are empty / hidden / or not good.

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Originally Posted by Chiru_Kai

I agree with having some sort of self-parsing system in place. But not that you can see what others are doing. Do this for DPS and HPS and maybe even damage mitigated (for tanks).
Maybe also have a rating, going from 1 to 10, or D- to S+, when it comes to damage output for your class, compared to everyone else who plays that class in that fight.

Fact is that people will gatekeep if they can see what other people's DPS/HPS is, and that is undesirable. But having some sort of rating, some way to figure out if your own rotation and playstyle is fine and competitive with others, would be good. It's not toxic, it will actually improve everyone's gameplay.

Add in potential tips with "use more AOE skills according to your class" or "manage your gauge better, you were overcapping", or "Remember to apply your DOTs" or "You overhealed a lot, maybe use more damage spells if everyone is healthy!".... stuff like that will be amazing to teach players to play their class and just improve the general game experience for *everyone*, without making it all about optimization.

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Giving a genuine explanation or guide for someone is totally fine, specially if that means a lot. But some people cannot take any suggestion or they immediately feel threatened, start with "you don't pay my sub" and other shenanigans. I told many times to Ninjas to not use doton on single targets as its a waste of dps, specially after 90+. Most of them would get so angry and try to leave dungeon or ask straight for explanation but in a very bad way.

There were only 1-2 ninjas that were "wow, thanks i didn't know that".

I do agree with everything else though.

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

People who like to brush your face with: "haha i did more dps, you can try your best but i did better loser"

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Or people who want to improve their own rotation and hit PBs? Actually very few people are out here getting mad at people for playing a little sub-optimally.

DPS tracking is a weird thing. I do think the game should have some way for each individual to track their own performance. The game produces that data anyway, that's how things like ACT are able to grab the info at all. It would be simple enough to just put that in game for each individual player to see themselves and not share it. I don't think there's a downside to this.

As for seeing other people's performance there is layers to this. There are certainly people who use numbers to harass others. This is not cool at all.

There's also the other side of the coin. I don't savage raid, but I understand how helpful it is with that type of difficult content to be able to see how the whole party is doing. Groups need to be coordinated and playing at their best, and if someone is performing incredibly poorly to the point where it's genuinely hindering progress I think the group deserves to know.

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Originally Posted by jonimated

There's also the other side of the coin. I don't savage raid, but I understand how helpful it is with that type of difficult content to be able to see how the whole party is doing. Groups need to be coordinated and playing at their best, and if someone is performing incredibly poorly to the point where it's genuinely hindering progress I think the group deserves to know.

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Or on the shinier bits of that side of the coin, people use it to coach people who are new to savage raiding, or new to raiding on a specific job. I know people who polished their whole rotation by sitting down with a mentor, a calculated rotation, and some ACT logs, and now they're off doing week one savage clears and ultimates.

As a semi casual raider I wouldn't mind letting tryhards know their DPS's.
Even if it means people will start to police who isn't doing their rotation.

You could have it in the PF Recruitment Criteria as a check mark for "enable ACT"
This way people who join the party know what they are in for.

you can still do ACT disabled if you want a more natural experience with less of a chance to get harassed when you skip a raidwide cause you had to take a sip of your morning coffee.

FFXIV's main streamer used it for years, and often repeats on stream he never got banned for it. I don't know why SE are so reluctant to add it. They could just turn it off for casual content, but the moment serious DPS checks are in the game, people need a reliable tool to judge their performance.

No thank you. Tools are already used in endgame content and SE knows they are used but they turn a blind eye so long as other players are not harassed using them. When that does happen, they can come down hard because these tools are against the ToS. If they implemented anything in-game, they dilute their ability to take action against these tools being used against other players. I don't find it likely they will want to upset the careful balance and grey area that exists now.

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Originally Posted by Laiyenu

Baseline, since the community knows dev's use this 3rd party sanctioned mod.

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Yes, the developers that literally have the math formulas and debug tools use a add-on built by a few gamers that want to record the ingame battle log the devs built.


Do... Do you guys hear yourselves? Like really. I know game dev is like a cosmic magic but guys. Please.


And no. No thanks. Really would benefit from a better system in Stone Sea Sky but ACT as is? Nah.

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Originally Posted by Laiyenu

Baseline, since the community knows dev's use this 3rd party sanctioned mod.

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Either ARR or Heavensward Yoshi-P already adressed not allowing in game parsers. He didn't want players harassing other players over lower dps.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

No thank you. Tools are already used in endgame content and SE knows they are used but they turn a blind eye so long as other players are not harassed using them. When that does happen, they can come down hard because these tools are against the ToS. If they implemented anything in-game, they dilute their ability to take action against these tools being used against other players. I don't find it likely they will want to upset the careful balance and grey area that exists now.

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Just cause you add a 3rd party tool in the game doesn't make it impossible for them to act on harassment.
The two aren't mutually inclusive. Harassment is harassment with or without tools being the reason.

Only thing that would change is them getting more false reports on mild verbal exchange about rotation or something.

In fact I would argue that they have actually MORE control to ban a player for harassing someone about their DPS than they do now.
Since they generally have to proove someone is actually using a tool to harass in the first place. Wouldn't you say so?

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Originally Posted by Nakiami

Either ARR or Heavensward Yoshi-P already adressed not allowing in game parsers. He didn't want players harassing other players over lower dps.

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This. If you implement a parser officially, people will ask to see it when doing content. You think PF is bad now? Try getting asked to fork over your numbers when joining a mount farm party.

On 2020/02/06, Yoshi-P went on record saying that they will never implement anything akin to a damage calculator because it would result in bullying.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

On 2020/02/06, Yoshi-P went on record saying that they will never implement anything akin to a damage calculator because it would result in bullying.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU

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"It shouldn't be that hard to understand," he says after explaining it's a minefield for potential harassment.

There it is.

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Originally Posted by Kirutsuki

Just cause you add a 3rd party tool in the game doesn't make it impossible for them to act on harassment.
The two aren't mutually inclusive. Harassment is harassment with or without tools being the reason.

Only thing that would change is them getting more false reports on mild verbal exchange about rotation or something.

In fact I would argue that they have actually MORE control to ban a player for harassing someone about their DPS than they do now.
Since they generally have to proove someone is actually using a tool to harass in the first place. Wouldn't you say so?

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It doesn't make it impossible but it weakens their stance. Right now they can say "no third party tools". When they start blurring the line or having to define what is allowed and what is not, then you're going to get rules lawyers constantly trying to push the lines. This is a much simpler solution.

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

People who like to brush your face with: "haha i did more dps, you can try your best but i did better loser". Mentality of these players are present here btw. Same as people who watch aggro meter and determine by that who has the best dps. Some people will grief you on purpose just to return their dps. Some people will cry how their crits aren't fair as viper did best dps. Then I had plenty of people that would want a fight reset if they messed their starting rotation or died at mid fight, even though it was still a clear.

Plus people love logs for savages / ultimates where you get kicked if your logs are empty / hidden / or not good.

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Aggro meter watching is the bane of my existence, an actual dps meter would just steal even more focus from fights.

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Originally Posted by kittycatcaoimhe

Or on the shinier bits of that side of the coin, people use it to coach people who are new to savage raiding, or new to raiding on a specific job. I know people who polished their whole rotation by sitting down with a mentor, a calculated rotation, and some ACT logs, and now they're off doing week one savage clears and ultimates.

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that doesnt fit into the "every raider is toxic" mindset some people here have tho

@OP
No.
I've seen the aftermath of ACT too many times.

God this is dumb.

Look, ACT aside (for whoever uses it, god speed if you do), any parser in any game is only useful on a boss where everyone has the ability to min/max their rotations up to, and including, a countdown timer.

* IF * YOU * DON'T * UNDERSTAND * THIS * YOU * DON'T * UNDERSTAND * DPS * PARSERS

And the problem is that the average idiot doesn't understand this.

So then idiots think that parsers mean ANYTHING in a dungeon pull.

- They don't understand downtime
- They don't understand # of enemies
- They don't understand single-target fights
- They don't understand anything

THAT'S what Yoshi P is preventing.

Dumb, toxic behavior because people can't understand simple math.

I applaud this game for not allowing parser add-ons to be part of this game BECAUSE people who don't understand it are just going to find dumb reasons to be toxic for no good reason just like World of Warcraft.

Many people here claim toxicity, but what's odd is that its used by the devs. If you are being bullied for dps / hps / threat/ mit in your dungeons and clears then find nicer groups, the problem is not the tool I have to get off a 3rd party website, which the dev's trust but sweep under the rug as a hush, hush to play favorites with certain mods that directly involved gameplay tuning, like ACT.

So why not implement it? If I wana get into raids I need to start my parse somewhere, and since its totally legal to do, by virtue of Yoshi P, add it into the game.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

On 2020/02/06, Yoshi-P went on record saying that they will never implement anything akin to a damage calculator because it would result in bullying.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU

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Yes indeed, this thread has no purpose because it's not happening

They've already implemented Stone, Sea, Sky to help with personal improvement in a non-toxic environment.

The problem is despite *you* not intending to use it to push players out of content, we ALL know it absolutely will be used that way by players. And the devs already chose years ago dealing with that harassment dragon was not worth the trouble and have built the game with players not having parsers in mind.

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Originally Posted by missTori

this is a non-issue?? if you've cleared extremes close to release then your damage should be fine to farm anyways.
and even if i see a dps doing less damage than a healer in casual content- im not gonna xbox 360 style call them out with every slur.
i think people are way too sensitive when it comes to this stuff

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I just said what the issue was. People will gatekeep this is not a debatable point.

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Originally Posted by Laiyenu

Many people here claim toxicity, but what's odd is that its used by the devs.

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Show us the fflogs or it didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

On 2020/02/06, Yoshi-P went on record saying that they will never implement anything akin to a damage calculator because it would result in bullying.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU

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And yet they put in an animation that makes it public when you mess up your ninja rotation with a bunny dunce cap. Kind of one hand not knowing what the other is doing.