Someone fill me in. What did the devs say LMFAO
Also, Shades Triangle is just Bozja 2.0 aka Eureka 3.0 aka FATEs 4.0 yeah? I got that prediction right yeah?
Why did Forked Tower reuse the BA entry system LOL
Printable View
-
07-10-2025, 03:31 AMbic12Why did Forked Tower reuse the BA entry system LOL
-
07-10-2025, 03:32 AMAlucaDragonheart
I wish it was Bozja 2.0, I had way more fun doing that one than OC, especially since the FATEs had neat little things to them like two RDMs having LB3 clashes.
-
07-10-2025, 03:35 AMbic12Did they actually add anything new? I remember people getting so upset I said there will be nothing new lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by AlucaDragonheart
-
07-10-2025, 03:45 AMKaurhzTheir rationale behind how Forked operated was...Quote:
Originally Posted by bic12
They felt that Delubrum had too many support systems. Whatever that means I have no idea....
So of course, in their 'infinite' wisdom elected that a model closer to BA was more suitable. -
07-10-2025, 03:46 AMAsari5
they said something about how they felt drs was too 'supportet' from the game so they wanted to take a step back from that. i kinda wish thats a mistranslation... it would be ridiculous if not
-
07-10-2025, 03:50 AMbic12
Kinda sad that I remember once upon a time that kind of mumbo jumbo would be laughed off as something you'd see from WoW. Maybe all MMOs end up like WoW.
-
07-10-2025, 03:59 AMovImThey literally removed things, lol. Phantom Jobs are just a set of cross class skills that barely interact with your existing kit, if at all - imho an absolute downgrade to essences and lost actions. Most fate and critical engagement bosses are the same uninspired slop we get in other parts of the game (with broken fate HP scaling to add insult to injury), max players per instance was cut in half, and instead of making a CLL/Dalriada gauntled they released dollar-store BA.Quote:
Originally Posted by bic12
Also: nice seeing you back -
07-10-2025, 04:00 AMFuturePastNow
It'll never be released and would have to be translated anyway but I'd love to read the design document outlining the reasoning and maybe a transcript of the meeting where this was discussed and decided on. I bet that would be fascinating.
Anyway, I took "too much support" for DRS to mean they believe that too many players who didn't deserve to be there got carried through it. (I say that sarcastically, they obviously wouldn't say it in those terms, but I really do think that's what they meant) -
07-10-2025, 04:01 AMbic12I seriously don't know why I got dunked on for predicting that. People just huff so much copium around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ovIm
-
07-10-2025, 04:07 AMovImWell, people writing here are still fans of the game and want it to be better. Occult Crescent and the following Live Letter where they admitted that they did not have the capacity to make a CLL/Dal Capstone did shatter a lot of goodwill though. Thats kinda CS3's "do you guys not have phones" moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by bic12
-
07-10-2025, 04:18 AMmelbye
Forked Tower has become the most tedious thing in the game now. I am TRYING to prog, but at this point i wanna throw up thinking about everything before the third boss
-
07-10-2025, 04:18 AMTaleraRistain
Apparently the game gave "too much support" to DRS or something like that so they decided to make the playerbase constantly at each other's throats instead.
I don't think anyone remotely understands their mentality here. -
07-10-2025, 04:55 AMJeeqbit
They said that the developers made decisions based on precedent due to tight deadlines, rather than consulting with Yoshi-P or having a meeting to figure out the ideal entry system and how it would all come together.
They also said they didn't assign enough QA to it. We know they have over 100 QA but since you can solo Critical Engagements and do Forked Tower with 24 people, they most likely didn't assign as many as they could have.
The features are similar: bunny FATEs (NM icon, rarely spawn, pot instead of a bunny, and an Elixir to find the treasure), Critical Engagements (except they spawn constantly now), FATEs and gold farms. The CEs have faster paced mechanics and you're meant to get hit by them a lot at first, but to account for that you can survive a lot of vuln stacks, and people will only avoid getting hit if they really make an effort to (or in some cases follow others and hope). They have tried maths in the mechanics like picking up the right sets of money and delivering it or observing a lot of things, but some of them don't have a lot of RNG so you can get used to them. The FATEs have actual mechanics but you won't notice this unless you fight them solo in a dead instance.
Phantom Jobs are mostly sets of Lost Actions that are similar to the jobs we have already, such as mit and a heal for Phantom Knight, dashes, gap closers, but there are new ones like Cannoneer that have status effects or additional effects and it can be fun to combine them. I've been solo farming gold (basically like Bozja clusters) using Paladin, Cannoneer and 9 stacks of Phantom job mastery. There are some differences they've been willing to do; for example, Phantom Samurai's version of Third Eye is like Hallowed Ground. Berserker locks you into doing auto attacks but the challenge of that is you need to do it when a mechanic won't hit you. I recall someone saying they were abusing the increased cast speed of jobs for some of the Phantom jobs as well.
The new things are mainly treasure coffers all around the map and lootable carrots where you can find treasure.
I mean I'm alright with it. I wasn't expecting it to be functionally different to other Field Operations in any significant way though. I just like seeing other people around me, as opposed to things like Island Sanctuary and the Endwalker relics that felt like solo experiences. -
07-10-2025, 05:59 AMThemarvin
It is their game whenever it get to it, that they chose a way that does not work and more or less don't care about the majority of the player base is also their problem.
Yes they somewhat fixed it, but then it leaves entire instances hostage to 48 people who has queued and the remaining ones get to leave and enter instance again to be able to having things going and also it pushes people away from the games and forcing them to head to Discord Servers and more, instead of making an ingame workign system that further more would be more anonymous as well in a figure of speech, the current system hinder basic relic progress for the special armor. -
07-10-2025, 06:06 AMAltina_Orion
The world content there is definitely worse than Bozja. Bozja 2.0 would have been welcomed. There is no point of doing anything in this zone unless you are doing forked. It's wild.
-
07-10-2025, 07:34 AMRaikai
No idea why. I've said on another thread:
Baldesion Arsenal worked fine because it was released at the very last Eureka zone (of 4), so everybody had already a LOT of Eureka content to sink their teeth at. BA felt more like a bonus than an integral part of the Field Operation's experience, which is exactly what the Forked Tower feels like.
By not doing it, the whole experience in the zone turns out to be almost pointless other than farm currency to get the special glamours.
The fix they implemented really helps, but is by no means excuse for the lack of a more accessible mode where people can actually engage without so much out-of-the-game prep. Not even mentioning the actual difficulty, because CLL and DRN were kinda hard for a clueless player. The only difference is that a couple of those players wouldn't suddenly destroy the whole run. -
07-10-2025, 07:36 AMSupersnow845Dead stars as a “no matter what your prog point you are a dead stars prog party” really does make forked prog feel awful doesn’t itQuote:
Originally Posted by melbye
-
07-10-2025, 08:04 AMFawkesYeah it definitely feels like content designed by people that weren't even talking to each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
-
07-10-2025, 01:02 PMRouter
small indie company
-
07-10-2025, 01:29 PMRein_eon_Osborne
Their ‘metric guy’ probably was assessing the number of clears BA had accumulated over several years since its release at the time they were designing OC, then concluded that it was something that playerbase love without actually understanding how those clears were achieved.
-
07-10-2025, 02:13 PMMaltothoris
So at that anime expo that happened, we got a few more details https://www.rpgsite.net/interview/17...ward-to-future Most of it is about the future but he did make a few comments on OC and FT.
Quote:
"I do feel that Forked Tower: Blood was a misstep in development. It wasn't meant to be hardcore content, so to speak. The intention was that it might be more difficult at first, but over time more players might be willing to take on the challenge; yet, in the end we made it too difficult for players to even get into the raid in the first place. That's why we're making adjustments with 7.3, and why some of those adjustments were pushed even earlier than that. [...] That's why we're revising our roadmap to account for this feedback in patch 7.5." Yoshida also reflected that the team may have been putting too much focus on a player's individual responsibility, and how a single person's failure could have such a profound impact on the whole party. They regret that they weren't able to strike that balance they had intended for the content.
-
07-10-2025, 02:13 PMDarkstrideThere wasn't much to predict. We knew it was going to be another field operation when it was announced. No one should have been surprised that it functions the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by bic12
-
07-10-2025, 03:53 PMTeresaFortellThey took a piece out of every content and turned it into an amalgamation of everything, resembling nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by bic12
-
07-10-2025, 04:06 PMXtremePrime
I'll get so much flak for this, but I still think OC is the best iteration of both Eureka and Bozja. I don't enjoy the limited nature of both logos and lost actions, with logos being downright bad.
They just need to stop being so frightful of OPness and lean into making phantom powers a little bit crazier/fun and to adjust FTB to also have a more casual friendly normal mode for people to be able to group together and try, as it seems it was intended by the new interview -
07-10-2025, 06:08 PMSupersnow845Lost actions being limited is exactly why they were allowed to be powerful. Since phantom jobs have no limits and no restrictions if they were super powerful then that wouldn’t be “power” it would just be an expected baselineQuote:
Originally Posted by XtremePrime
Like let’s say that the “average” phantom job made you 50% more powerful, since there is no limits to phantom jobs then everyone is 50% more powerful so nobody is; it’s precisely why mastery stacks are nearly meaningless. Because everyone being 24% more powerful just means everything is balanced around everyone being 24% more powerful than base ilvl 700 sync -
07-10-2025, 08:11 PMValenceCue in, PVE will get the dungeon treatment because the only way their current binary DDR pve has to actually bring any modicum of difficulty is by putting some individual responsibility on players (aka the infamous body checks).Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltothoris
No wonder they're stuck in this perpetual loop of overshooting or undershooting difficulty goals. *sigh* -
07-10-2025, 08:24 PMTeresaFortellAnother possible reason they didn't make phantom jobs super powerful is that they were tuned for players who would be partaking in FTB. So, if you had too many overpowered phantom jobs, it would make the "hard" content too "easy".Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
-
07-10-2025, 08:44 PMSupersnow845That could easily be countered by just internally balancing forked around it like how it’s already balanced around the current phantom mastery stacks (especially dead stars who straight up can’t be killed till all their mechanics are done)Quote:
Originally Posted by TeresaFortell
Forked is easy to tune to inherent power of jobs, wider OC isn’t -
07-10-2025, 09:17 PMTeresaFortellMy assumption is that they would not want to balance FT because, as I recall, they want FT to be challenging content for the player base. They could do what DRS did, such as everyone could use a different version of the phantom jobs when doing FT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
-
07-10-2025, 09:22 PMSupersnow845I mean if they wanted to make phantom jobs “strong” but didn’t want that to neuter forked’s difficulty then they simply could have made forked’s damage checks proportionally higherQuote:
Originally Posted by TeresaFortell
Like if currently the average phantom job makes you “10% stronger” and they changed it to being “50% stronger” they could just make forked’s enrages 40% harsher
My point being forked being “difficult” isn’t why they made phantom jobs weak, it’s just because if everyone is 50% stronger nobody is 50% stronger, forked can be internally balanced Around anyway -
07-11-2025, 12:35 AMChasingstarsQuote:
Forked Tower: Blood was designed to be more like Baldesion Arsenal, a raid from the Eureka Field Operation in Stormblood, after feedback that the Bozjan Southern Front - Shadowbringers' equivalent - didn't task players with engaging with the world as much, as a sort of middle-ground. Almost immediately, however, the feedback started pouring in that players found attempting the Forked Tower: Blood - Occult Crescent's 48-player raid - was even more frustrating than Baldesion Arsenal, which the team had not anticipated.
Quote:
"I do feel that Forked Tower: Blood was a misstep in development. It wasn't meant to be hardcore content, so to speak. The intention was that it might be more difficult at first, but over time more players might be willing to take on the challenge; yet, in the end we made it too difficult for players to even get into the raid in the first place. That's why we're making adjustments with 7.3, and why some of those adjustments were pushed even earlier than that. [...] That's why we're revising our roadmap to account for this feedback in patch 7.5."
The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.Quote:
Yoshida also reflected that the team may have been putting too much focus on a player's individual responsibility, and how a single person's failure could have such a profound impact on the whole party.
-
07-11-2025, 10:16 AMSkankyRoeSo the truth finally comes out, and it is indeed yet another case of "oops we made it savage teehee".Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltothoris
-
07-11-2025, 02:23 PMLaylaTsarraBingo! Spend no time there and I've done my main and two alts and that it for me. Doing Bozja again and tackling field notes. Queuing for CE's and doing fates at leisure as I please not running all over a map constantly to even attempt to get credit for a fate. And whoever thought atma would be a good idea has truly lost it. It's nothing but frustrating and certainly something people will do with their main and not their alts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altina_Orion
Castrum and Delibrium and soon Dalraidia when my level 21 hits 25 are all things I enjoy doing over and over. They'd better rethink what's coming before this zone is history for many. -
07-11-2025, 03:16 PMYovelaLindswoodTranslation: Delubrum had too many ways for players to express freedom of build and we detected fun. The issue has been corrected. Have a nice day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
-
07-11-2025, 04:37 PMRein_eon_OsborneQuote:
Originally Posted by Maltothoris
It already happened once in the past - twice probably if you want to count OG Diadem but I think that's a stretch imo; yet for some reason they did not anticipate this happening this time around? Disasterrific.Quote:
Forked Tower: Blood was designed to be more like Baldesion Arsenal, a raid from the Eureka Field Operation in Stormblood, after feedback that the Bozjan Southern Front - Shadowbringers' equivalent - didn't task players with engaging with the world as much, as a sort of middle-ground. Almost immediately, however, the feedback started pouring in that players found attempting the Forked Tower: Blood - Occult Crescent's 48-player raid - was even more frustrating than Baldesion Arsenal, which the team had not anticipated.
Thanks for finally admitting that the casual to midcores (I'm using the term very loosely here) are basically not the target audience to begin with. Took them long enough to spill that out. Now how about they actually put their money where their mouth on instead of doing too much these disaster-control speech? Doing too much of the latter can be costly yanno... :pQuote:
"I do feel that Forked Tower: Blood was a misstep in development. It wasn't meant to be hardcore content, so to speak. The intention was that it might be more difficult at first, but over time more players might be willing to take on the challenge; yet, in the end we made it too difficult for players to even get into the raid in the first place. That's why we're making adjustments with 7.3, and why some of those adjustments were pushed even earlier than that. [...] That's why we're revising our roadmap to account for this feedback in patch 7.5."
Yoshida also reflected that the team may have been putting too much focus on a player's individual responsibility, and how a single person's failure could have such a profound impact on the whole party.
-
07-11-2025, 04:39 PMTeresaFortellhttps://media.tenor.com/40ptc5cYkM8A...-bleh-bleh.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by SkankyRoe
-
07-11-2025, 10:11 PMtsuchii
Reused but somehow made it worse, if that's even possible!