72 player instances make Forked Tower incredibly painful to do.

As title states, the instances being limited to 72 as opposed to Eureka's 144 makes doing Forked Tower incredibly annoying. As a pre-organized group, it can take up to 30 minutes to get multiple groups in the same instance, and leads to a ton of frustration for everyone involved. You can't do the content with just people in the instance either, as only having 72 people in the instance means you will almost never have a full 48 people at a high enough level who are willing to go in.

I understand there's probably some issue on the back end that makes it more challenging, but it's something that was already done in Eureka back in Stormblood, so I would hope it's still able to be done in a more modern expansion as well.

I really hope that the instance size is increased in the future, as Forked Tower itself is a ton of fun, both in organized groups and with whoever is in the instance.

There is also the fact that many ppl want you to be in their premade groups and will refuse to heal or raise you if you're not, in casual content that is open, has entry requirements that are not easy to come by and is not just queuable by groups.

They got this so wrong is Eureka with BA, got it right in Bozja and just went back to the bad Eureka decision afterward. I thought they were supposed to be learning and improving this sort of content and not going backwards. Why are they making content that is supposed to be casual, so easily gate kept behind rando discord groups? I mean i am fine joining discord for call outs, but I don't want to be in any discord for FFXIV, I have been in a few and yikes, just yikes. iykyk

I feel that's a problem I didn't think of.
I guess going into an OC instance with a full alliance first (if it's even possible?) would guarantee you only need to recruit 24 people once in? That feels even more discord group oriented if anything?

You can't queue with an instance either :( each party has to hope to queue into the same instance

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

There is also the fact that many ppl want you to be in their premade groups and will refuse to heal or raise you if you're not, in casual content that is open, has entry requirements that are not easy to come by and is not just queuable by groups.

They got this so wrong is Eureka with BA, got it right in Bozja and just went back to the bad Eureka decision afterward. I thought they were supposed to be learning and improving this sort of content and not going backwards. Why are they making content that is supposed to be casual, so easily gate kept behind rando discord groups? I mean i am fine joining discord for call outs, but I don't want to be in any discord for FFXIV, I have been in a few and yikes, just yikes. iykyk

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Yeah, if the instance was bigger you could more realistically just form groups in instance, much like how JP does BA. But with the smaller instances, it's so much less feasible, especially with many people leveling up in instances still. Even as a regular in many of the discord servers that organize it I really hate how they try to hold a monopoly on the instances, but with the instance size as it is it's gonna end up like BA again where you can only ever do it with one of the Discords.

Did you just ask SE to play this game?

It really should have just been how CLL and Dalriada handle it

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Originally Posted by opaltatcoeurl

You can't queue with an instance either :( each party has to hope to queue into the same instance

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That's what I was afraid of...

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Originally Posted by Ozalius

Did you just asked SE to play this game?

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They don’t have time to play their own game cuz they’re busy playing their female blood elves in Classic WoW.

DRS allowed for 48-man queuing. It would be nice if this was added to OC.

We tried for over an hour last night trying to get 48 people into the same instance, first on Aether and then on Dynamis. No luck on either DC.

I liked 144 people better. Not sure why they reduced it.

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Originally Posted by opaltatcoeurl

almost never have a full 48 people at a high enough level who are willing to go in.

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Probably a temporary issue. It's only been out a few days. I'm not even max level or in gear yet, so I'm sure many are in that same boat.

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Originally Posted by CVXIV

It really should have just been how CLL and Dalriada handle it

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They most likely looked at the data and saw that BA and DRS were more enduring than CLL, Dalriada and DR. Because while people struggle to get parties for CLL, Dalriada and DR, the discords have still been doing BA and DRS regularly.

This is a stunning example of what feels like either regressive development or just... overwhelmingly catering to Japanese culture and playstyle. I'm about to bounce over to their forums and spy what they're saying about it, if anything.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They most likely looked at the data and saw that BA and DRS were more enduring than CLL, Dalriada and DR. Because while people struggle to get parties for CLL, Dalriada and DR, the discords have still been doing BA and DRS regularly.

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I'm sorry what? Who's having trouble getting parties for CLL, Dalriada, or DR? I can picture Dynamis just due to population scarcity but certainly not Aether.

Apparently it has a somewhat similar mechanics to BA, with needing a few folks out of the dungeon to kill a special mob. So yeah... you basically need the whole instance anyway just for Forked Tower which is pretty stupid...

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Originally Posted by Atreus

I'm sorry what? Who's having trouble getting parties for CLL, Dalriada, or DR? I can picture Dynamis just due to population scarcity but certainly not Aether.

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1. People find they have to solo DR in many cases. I've seen people complain about this for years, even on Aether.
2. People on the EU data centers were saying for years (on these forums) that they were struggling with getting a party for CLL.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

This is a stunning example of what feels like either regressive development or just... overwhelmingly catering to Japanese culture and playstyle. I'm about to bounce over to their forums and spy what they're saying about it, if anything.

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Follow-up: their side of these forums is kinda barren but I did find this through a reddit comment: http://blog.livedoor.jp/umadori0726/.../62387242.html

Some of the comments share the same concerns lmao, like ??? who was this for

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Follow-up: their side of these forums is kinda barren but I did find this through a reddit comment: http://blog.livedoor.jp/umadori0726/.../62387242.html

Some of the comments share the same concerns lmao, like ??? who was this for

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This time, the island limit is 72 people, so if you play normally, even if all the conditions are met, only a few people will gather. You'll need to set up a server on Disco, gather 48 people in advance,
and then have a few dozen volunteers to blockade the island.

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That's one way to solve the problem.

the game can't even handle it properly either the frame rate always struggles at 72 person so I think they should lower it because this is bad sometime I don't even see the mechanic trigger with or without the battle effect

Time to play dead weight for those pre-made discord groups and sniping their entry queues :cool:

Maybe thats because they dont want us to gatekeep ppl and lock em to using external sites or not doing it lol.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

Time to play dead weight for those pre-made discord groups and sniping their entry queues :cool:

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Weird to brag about griefing, but ok. They'll just leave you on the ground and won't raise.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

There is also the fact that many ppl want you to be in their premade groups and will refuse to heal or raise you if you're not, in casual content that is open, has entry requirements that are not easy to come by and is not just queuable by groups.

They got this so wrong is Eureka with BA, got it right in Bozja and just went back to the bad Eureka decision afterward. I thought they were supposed to be learning and improving this sort of content and not going backwards. Why are they making content that is supposed to be casual, so easily gate kept behind rando discord groups? I mean i am fine joining discord for call outs, but I don't want to be in any discord for FFXIV, I have been in a few and yikes, just yikes. iykyk

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Because SE has only 2 publics in mind. Casuals and the most invested players. In their mind, casuals only do msq/raids/raid 24. Everything else has to be aimed for most invested players, which do high raids, ... that require a high lvl of communication. They ignore all the other publics. All the people that want something mildly challenging that don't ask for a discord are ignored. I feel like they did it well enough with Delubrum reginae, with its normal mode being challenging and its savage mode being aimed at players who wanted more.

My real fear (hope? Idk I read everything and its opposite on that one) is that forked tower will be needed for part 2 and they will have to change things because people will be locked away from northern part of the island because of how forked tower ask for communication and will be only clearable with discord, and even that is hard to organise due to how they designed the thing. BA had the good taste to be at the end of the whole thing. From what I read, BA is basically DRS in term of difficulty with BA entering condition.

Honestly, SE should learn to listen to the casuals when it come to casual design, hardcore/most dedicated players when it comes to high end content and somewhere in the middle when it comes to retention content aimed to everyone. Stop listening to people that always want thing to be harder for content meant for everyone/people that just want things with mild challenge that don't ask for too much inverstment.

Hi, as somebody from Japanese servers, no, we cannot do this content yet with randoms ^^;
I worked hard to get to level 20, I exchanged my certification, and I looked into a guide on how to find the portals.
I was disappointed when it was completely ignored. After 2 days, it continues to be an ignored content even when the red moon weather shows every 30 minutes and most people are at level 20.
The problem is that Discord channels do not particularly exist in the Japanese community. While there are some, it is extremely hard to find one, or one that is able to function at all.
That is not even including the strictness of "gold farming". the requirement is phantom job "Cannoneer" at level 3 or higher, level 20 required to 3-5 pulls enemies and "quick as possible" using cannoneer as 7 other members.

In order for me to even be able to do any FATEs is "make a decision between fates", even when the Fate is 0% completed and I am main-tanking as the first pull of the boss fight, the Fate is finished after my 3rd combo skill.
The contribution of each fate is too weak for this reason as it considers me who pulled the FATE boss as "silver achievement" to earn the full credit, so it is a wasted effort to even try get a hit in (it is almost impossible).
I tried to do this content on an American character, and I had a lot fun. I was shocked fates actually have a lot mechanics, it was amazing I was able to die from them. (I felt relieved and human again) I was able to breathe.
In Japanese servers, it does not seem like you have room to "breathe", going back to forked towers, : What is so different from this content to previous content? Is it too hard to even try?
I wanted to go in blind, to not be spoiled, but it looks like I am forced to spoil myself? I would like to know in case :)

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

1. People find they have to solo DR in many cases. I've seen people complain about this for years, even on Aether.

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I just use PF to get a 5-8/8.
The ONLY issue with DR in my book is the 10min wait time AFTER sitting in PF for between 5-30mins.
Got an 8/8? Cool, in you go. It shouldn't require the full duty cap of players to let you in, not anymore.
With 8/8 it may make it easier to match with DF, I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

2. People on the EU data centers were saying for years (on these forums) that they were struggling with getting a party for CLL.

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Can't say I've ever had an issue getting a group for CLL/Dal.

I just got in a group to try the forked tower and this has been one of the worst experiences I've had in this game. Not because of the actual fight. We got to around 10% enrage on the first boss and were about to go for the kill...and that's were the problem lies. That 10% enrage was on the 3rd attempt and at that point we didn't have enough instance time left to try another time. We tried to get another instance with all 48 people in together for almost 2 hours but it didn't work and then people just gave up. Why is there so much friction in trying to do this raid? BA was like this also sure but at least BA had a 144 player cap on its instances. Not to mentioned they took a step forward in how they designed these fights with Bozja and that worked very well comparatively.

I just don't get who this content is for. The level of difficulty is made for an organized group of players playing together but the instances punish these groups by not allowing them to get in the same instances... If you're forcing the content to be done with a group of unorganized randoms the level of difficulty should be Castrum/Dalriada where you can pretty much get trough it by just blinding pushing through. Instead this raid has actual enrages, mechanics that requires specific organized positioning and even resurrections restriction. The main issue is that the difficulty isn't even the problem. It's that they're forcing 48 player groups who want to try the content to play instance roulette just to even get in. It's like if every time you wanted to do a savage reclear, when your party finally fills you flip a coin and if it's heads, you can't enter the raid that day.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Weird to brag about griefing, but ok. They'll just leave you on the ground and won't raise.

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I dont mind delevelling. Its going to be fun ride showing how creatively bankrupt Creative Studio III and their incompetence for producing and designing content is *Shruge*

Honestly this seems like this may be their design to counter the "only premade" type of thinking but then why even bring that back at all? CLL and Dalriada worked nicely so now they're backpedaling.

I was so surprised to hear that you need to join a discord to do this?? Are we going back to Eureka??? Bozja had a ton of content that anyone could just join and do together. Delubrium had two difficulties and allowed you to queue at any time, and now this one you have to make get into a call, wait a ton of time for the instance to even appear and from what I see even then people have trouble getting everyone in there? And it's the only dungeon for a patch cycle that already feels unbelievably long.

I really have to echo the sentiment of "who is this for" because holy shit it is not for me. I don't want to join a FFXIV discord, fuck that, much less to repeatedly grind anything. And I'm fine with hard content existing, it's just weird that there is no middle ground.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They most likely looked at the data and saw that BA and DRS were more enduring than CLL, Dalriada and DR. Because while people struggle to get parties for CLL, Dalriada and DR, the discords have still been doing BA and DRS regularly.

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Delibrum normal is still done regularly in PF every week because the system is failure proof.
You queue for it and after a certain time is over you WILL get in even if the player numbers aren’t met.

Forked tower is the only thing I heavily dislike.
You don’t find enough players in the zone, you have to use a currency in a specific spot at a specific time and the tower itself also seems to be pretty tough with the rezzing limit.

Right now that thing is pure streamer content where people like Xenos or Arthas can easily amass enough people and have fun doing it blind while the normal player struggles to even get in and has to wait till a Discord with raid guides is out.
Fun right?

It’s a gigantic failure on SE part and I am baffled why they didn’t use the Bozja approach here (even CLL would have been better) or even just implement forked tower as part of the zone itself which you can enter with a team at any time.
For me the whole thing seems like yet another content just made for their beloved big hardcore content creators who can’t go half a patch without a tailormade thing for them and I am honestly getting very annoyed by that.

If Forked tower will be needed for the story progression in the future the feedback will be disastrous.

It tried to get in about 15 times now and never had enough people willing to go in.
I am very close of giving up on the whole thing.

I wonder how they tested this content. Having a premade instance for developers is way too convenient. Surely they knew the same conditions wouldn't apply in the actual MMO, right?

I'm just hoping it's not going to be required for story progression. Yet another issue that highlights the need for active community managers on these forums. The worst part is knowing it'll take weeks to communicate with the people behind development.

I'm not sure what their reasoning behind returning to the janky Baldesion Arsenal style queue was.

Like that instance, they pulled the same stunt where an enemy spawns outside of the tower that needs to be killed in order to make a boss beatable, except this time it's not even clearly marked on the map like a FATE/CE and is just...there.

I'd like to think that's not the sole reason they opted for that decision, but...

Baldesion was already problematic at release when past the first week when the first players getting inside were mostly random parties, but then slowly turned into more organized groups that harassed lone random players getting in. It grew especially bad since anybody could enter provided they were max level, and they eventually implemented the ticket system to ensure people were motivated and had put enough effort for it, but did it actually solved anything? Getting in as a random player surely felt bad enough when you got griefed once inside even though you had put forth the effort to get in. That's what happens when you make such an entrance restriction making people trickling down, and add a relatively challenging instance behind to prog through (else now it's been figured out since forever, I've done it as a grunt, you can clear it while turning your brain off just listening to the discord callouts).

Now we have the same system but the player cap makes it harder for everyone to get in. Perhaps this will help random lone players to get by in contrast, I don't know, but it seems on the other hand pretty hard to line up enough people for it now.

The reason we have 72 players now is because they designed the content so that everybody in the instance does the same thing at the same time, turning it into a zerg train, which incidentally asks for the mobs not to be a problem so that players can actually reach the next CE/fate spawn in time without dying on the way, and this also makes the area feel a lot smaller (and desolate/empty outside of the trains). CEs aren't capped to 24 people anymore. Everyone gets in, so they couldn't keep 144 players as a cap for obvious reasons. This stems from incredibly short sighted design choices to my eyes.

It is ...baffling. It's like they literally sat together and decided based on 10 years of experience with field ops, instances and duty matching systems : 'Yeah let's pick the worst possible thing that leads to the most amount of gatekeeping'. Insane.

As mentioned before, who is this content even for? It is overall a mindless grindfest for casuals but then they add a hardcore punishing barrier for entering a weird midcore raid. It's literally incomprehensible.

Thank God the airship wasnt tied to this ocontent then

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Thank God the airship wasnt tied to this ocontent then

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ther is still two mounts tied to it tho

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

ther is still two mounts tied to it tho

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Only mount tied to it is the demon wall. If you are referring to the shark and pterodactyl mount those can be looted from chests . But while I do like challenging content having to go through a discord is all kinds of ass

So, wait a Minute.

You all gonna tell me, that this Tower thing is a "Savage like" thing? And that you cant just queue for it like Bozja? Are you kidding me?
Im not gonna farm this shit Armor for this thing, until i get this, this content is dead expect for that hardcore gil grinders.
Man, i was so mad that we got another field op, but its actually not as bad as Eureka and Bozja, but the last thing you get with ppl is like too hard to do, so you need a fking Discord for it? Hell no, screw you Yoshi-P.

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Originally Posted by itachi-otsutsuki

It is ...baffling. It's like they literally sat together and decided based on 10 years of experience with field ops, instances and duty matching systems : 'Yeah let's pick the worst possible thing that leads to the most amount of gatekeeping'. Insane.

As mentioned before, who is this content even for? It is overall a mindless grindfest for casuals but then they add a hardcore punishing barrier for entering a weird midcore raid. It's literally incomprehensible.

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Is it really that baffling tho? Their decision making process has been extremely confusing for over a decade now, which is exactly why ppl don't think they play their own game and the decision making process is an excel spreadsheet.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Is it really that baffling tho? Their decision making process has been extremely confusing for over a decade now, which is exactly why ppl don't think they play their own game and the decision making process is an excel spreadsheet.

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Kinda hilarious considering how Yoshi-P mocked Blizzard in an interview saying "Dont they play their own game?" Karma is a B

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Originally Posted by Lami_Khatayin

So, wait a Minute.

You all gonna tell me, that this Tower thing is a "Savage like" thing? And that you cant just queue for it like Bozja? Are you kidding me?

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It's Baldesion Arsenal 2. Please look forward to Baldesion Arsenal 3 in another 10+ months.