The Atma Complaint: Length of Time/Acquisition Rate vs. Long-term Investment

Ok, so I’ve been seeing a lot of ridicule for the devs because of the fact we brought back Atmas - the dreaded step in the Zodiac Weapon that had you farming FATEs for hours on end. I understand that this is a problem for people, but let’s be honest while I play Devil’s Advocate.

There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t have a long-term investment for relic.

The fact people complained about Endwalker’s Tome Relic being “lazy”(which it really was) because it was just a part of even your Tomestone grind for EVERY. SINGLE. STEP. makes me wonder if people just forgot what the other relics are like.

Bozja Relic was seen as the best way, given you could participate in Field Operations or go FATE grind in other Areas(which is also beneficial since you farm up FATEs for Shared FATE now with the relic’s target being Dawntrail areas).

The main problem though is that the moment the player base gets the slightest inconvenience from RNG being built into obtaining the relic, people complain they can’t finish it because of the drop rates or because they don’t have time. THIS IS FINE. Why? Because you’re supposed to take it at your pace like other relics.

This isn’t a horse race, and never has been - and I’m going to dip into a tangent for a moment here because this is relevant: Hyper-consumerism is a problem for the gaming market because the consumer is constantly looking for new forms of content nowadays that isn’t recycled and isn’t the same. Let’s say I play Helldivers 2. It’s a live service, and doing the same things daily gets boring after a while. Well, tough luck because if you wanted to progress, you needed to play - but what about when the content is exhausted?

Then the player moves on to a different game. The fact we’re all in a rush to consume the new content shows how much of a struggle it is unless some kind of long-form content is established; Occult Crescent and Forked Tower are it along with the relic grind. This happens more often than not with live service since a few days down the road the XIV player count drops in a downhill trend until next patch, which will make it spike again. For those who solely play XIV, this content is made to last all the way to 7.3, and I bet you it will with the peek I got at Forked Tower.

I think RNG is fine mostly but I do think the drop rate is a little too low, I got my first relic so it's not a complaint that I don't have it yet, I think both parties are being at each other's throat and SE's way of doing this seems okay even if I think the rates are a little low, I guess one side will always be unhappy, the cycle of an MMO at its finest. Casuals complain > Devs listen > More hardcore players complain > devs listen > repeat

You saying it's not a horse race I completely agree with, I feel like modern gaming has pushed "FOMO" so hard that people just get FOMO from anything that could make them feel like they're "behind" even when its permanent content, it's weird to see

Long-term investment for the first weapon and easy grind for the following ones is the healthiest option to please both audiences.

Also, there is not a single reason to need the Phantom Weapons ASAP. If you need a good weapon grinded at a more leisurely pace, you can either buy a Ceremonial Weapon, do M8N weekly run seven times for the Historia weapon or do EX4 for weapons with the same ilvl. Anyone burning themselves down for the need to have a relic weapon are only making it hard on themselves for no good reason, but because of good ol' FOMO.

I want to say that I appreciate that the FATES can also be done in the regular overworld maps like the OG atma grind.

I hadn't quite finished my Free Markets, and the overworld FATE trains are back up and running because of this. I knocked out most of Yak'tel finally yesterday.

And it means we can also farm bicolor gems in the overworld too.

Right now my plan is to make out Knowledge and try to collect as many field notes as I can from CEs, and if I'm still missing atma at that point, finish out the collecting in the overworld.

I love grind CHOICES.

It's day 3 and people are saying it's too much. Let's see what they think when it's been 7 days. Just you know, 1 week. It's not much.

What this has all proven is that many players are not long-term thinkers. They can only process the immediate moment. If the immediate moment is grindy, they don't like it. But if the immediate moment is instant completion like the EW relic, they are bored.

So my suggestions for the devs is to ignore people who don't want it to be grindy because they are not thinking long-term.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

You saying it's not a horse race I completely agree with, I feel like modern gaming has pushed "FOMO" so hard that people just get FOMO from anything that could make them feel like they're "behind" even when its permanent content, it's weird to see

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I am afraid the whole OC structure is FOMO.
It was FOMO back in Eureka, it improved slightly in Bozja and now OC is still FOMO.

It isn’t so bad like other MMO but it is still an issue SE have not yet able to address. Same happens to deep dungeon in EW.

SE did try to do something to help revive old content like moggle tomestone. However, it is clearly the mindset of FOMO is strongly implanted when they create the contents. Any event try to revive it is just band-aid. They need to address the core issue

I don't appreciate content that doesn't respect my time. I have other games to enjoy than play this one for six hours and make 0 progress toward the relic.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

What this has all proven is that many players are not long-term thinkers. They can only process the immediate moment..

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My sub is running out again.

Since this is all we get for now, I am just farming my weapon then come back in 7.3 maybe, for the next update. Content doesn't have a long-term grind, this is just an illusion.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

I am afraid the whole OC structure is FOMO.
It was FOMO back in Eureka, it improved slightly in Bozja and now OC is still FOMO.

It isn’t so bad like other MMO but it is still an issue SE have not yet able to address. Same happens to deep dungeon in EW.

SE did try to do something to help revive old content like moggle tomestone. However, it is clearly the mindset of FOMO is strongly implanted when they create the contents. Any event try to revive it is just band-aid. They need to address the core issue

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Permanent content isn't FOMO by its very essence. There is nothing to miss out. Even when the hype dies down, nothing other than people, which Square Enix can only spur to an extent, ever stops you from complete none of the previous Field Operations. And neither Eureka nor Bozja were impossible or hard to complete due to a lack of people, even expansions after their release. I should know, since I leveled through Eureka, got the Proto-Ozma, two Eureka relics and the Elemental Armor entirely during Endwalker.

FOMO content is the one that explicitly comes with a timer, like Seasonal Event Rewards, and no chance of it resurfacing back again or, if it does resurface, it comes with strings attached (like being moved to the store). FOMO content gives something that you CAN miss out, hence fear missing it. Anything else is just the players' own unfounded fears. And the reason for FOMO lies way beyond SE and straight into the complex issue in current day society that is the fast-paced consumerism, a problem in which both companies and customers have taken part.

Because, again, you DON'T need the Phantom Weapons. At all. They're not mandatory and they're not even the optimal weapons (that would be the Savage weapons). Square Enix hasn't given any incentive or time limit to get them. They're, to say it plainly, simply aesthetic choices. Hell, you don't even need to do Occult Crescent to get most rewards because several are available at the MB.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

I am afraid the whole OC structure is FOMO.
It was FOMO back in Eureka, it improved slightly in Bozja and now OC is still FOMO.

It isn’t so bad like other MMO but it is still an issue SE have not yet able to address. Same happens to deep dungeon in EW.

SE did try to do something to help revive old content like moggle tomestone. However, it is clearly the mindset of FOMO is strongly implanted when they create the contents. Any event try to revive it is just band-aid. They need to address the core issue

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Can you explain how to me, I don't mean to dismiss your point, but to my feeling, the content isn't going anywhere, I did Eureka for the first time ever in EW with a friend and I got all the rewards just the same as people got them back in Stormblood, this type of content will last all expansion and in future expansions people will still be doing this

I'm all for long grinds, but when I don't see a single Atma in 4 hours farming in a targeted area, that's when I start to think this is bs

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Originally Posted by crovius

I'm all for long grinds, but when I don't see a single Atma in 4 hours farming in a targeted area, that's when I start to think this is bs

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It's not like it's the only grind though. There's Knowledge level and Phantom job levels and coins to farm. Atma is virtually just being collecting in the background of all that.

Even if you farm FATEs outside OC, there's all the gemstone rewards and the mount you could be progressing to. And if you have all those, you can sell gemstone vouchers for gil.

Either way, you're getting things for your time.

the problem is when most people have one and I aren't even half way done I am sorry but I see a problem

I like long grinds, but I like being able to see the progress of my grind, I wouldn't mind them asking me to grind for 4 months straight if I could just see actual progress. I've gone about 5 hours without 1 atma now while people have completed their relic in 1 day.
I'm also fine with some rng but this is too random, the way bozja did the drops were good (it still needed to be a bit grindier imo)

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

the problem is when most people have one and I aren't even half way done I am sorry but I see a problem

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Well that’s what RNG is: Random Number Generation. A drop rate. Generally I’ve had times where I’ve sat around for 3h farming and didn’t get one, but just taking my time and playing with others in the instance is where my time goes. The Devs made a smart move to make the zones giving Atmas current expansion zones, since this not only helps people work towards another thing, it still rewards you compared to farming in old zones without Shared FATE.

Regardless, you’re going to be rolling the dice. Be glad this is a one-time task.

Someone brought this up in another thread, which I think highlights the problem. People don't like feeling their time is wasted due to the fickleness of RNG. When you put 20-30 hours into content and walk away with 4 Atmas while your friend who put in less than half that has 8, it's going to be frustrating. Heck, this is why the Savage loot system has so much backlash.

I think requiring significantly more Atmas but making them guaranteed drops; or nearly so, would be received better if only because it eliminates that sense of unfairness. There's a reason most gacha games have a built in pity system. People simply lose interest when RNG screws them no matter how you justification its necessity. Additionally, if you happen to get more than three of any Atmas they are completely worthless since you can't even exchange them. Making it even more of a "feelsbadman".

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Ok, so I’ve been seeing a lot of ridicule for the devs because of the fact we brought back Atmas - the dreaded step in the Zodiac Weapon that had you farming FATEs for hours on end. I understand that this is a problem for people, but let’s be honest while I play Devil’s Advocate.

There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t have a long-term investment for relic.

The fact people complained about Endwalker’s Tome Relic being “lazy”(which it really was) because it was just a part of even your Tomestone grind for EVERY. SINGLE. STEP. makes me wonder if people just forgot what the other relics are like.

Bozja Relic was seen as the best way, given you could participate in Field Operations or go FATE grind in other Areas(which is also beneficial since you farm up FATEs for Shared FATE now with the relic’s target being Dawntrail areas).

The main problem though is that the moment the player base gets the slightest inconvenience from RNG being built into obtaining the relic, people complain they can’t finish it because of the drop rates or because they don’t have time. THIS IS FINE. Why? Because you’re supposed to take it at your pace like other relics.

This isn’t a horse race, and never has been - and I’m going to dip into a tangent for a moment here because this is relevant: Hyper-consumerism is a problem for the gaming market because the consumer is constantly looking for new forms of content nowadays that isn’t recycled and isn’t the same. Let’s say I play Helldivers 2. It’s a live service, and doing the same things daily gets boring after a while. Well, tough luck because if you wanted to progress, you needed to play - but what about when the content is exhausted?

Then the player moves on to a different game. The fact we’re all in a rush to consume the new content shows how much of a struggle it is unless some kind of long-form content is established; Occult Crescent and Forked Tower are it along with the relic grind. This happens more often than not with live service since a few days down the road the XIV player count drops in a downhill trend until next patch, which will make it spike again. For those who solely play XIV, this content is made to last all the way to 7.3, and I bet you it will with the peek I got at Forked Tower.

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That design is stupid for one reason only: someone that doesn't have as much as time as you do, or doesn't like the methods required to farm those atmas, may get shafted by the rng, while someone like you that enjoy it, may also get invertly shafted and get incredible luck making it a lot shorter as a result.
This is not fine. This has never been about the long term investment, it's been about 1) the limited methods required and 2) the inequalities between players in order to achieve it.

grinding is okay, but RNG if a shitty and unfair system.
I got a lot of time onmy hands so it's boring but i am close to done.
The problem is when you have less playtime you are just here hoping and rolling dice witch is completely stupid.
This is not something you are grinding or working on.
This is just rolling dice, lazyness by squarenix, but i guess low effort is their thing with this game.

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Originally Posted by Valence

That design is stupid for one reason only: someone that doesn't have as much as time as you do, or doesn't like the methods required to farm those atmas, may get shafted by the rng, while someone like you that enjoy it, may also get invertly shafted and get incredible luck making it a lot shorter as a result.
This is not fine. This has never been about the long term investment, it's been about 1) the limited methods required and 2) the inequalities between players in order to achieve it.

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This is an excellent point and I want to piggyback off it with an example of my own.

I work for myself, thus can make my own hours and grind somewhat to my leisure. In comparison, my friend works full time with a two year old and another baby on the way. She has maybe two hours a day, at best, to do anything beside work and be Mom. For her, logging in and spending those few hours getting absolutely nowhere feels awful and completely demotivates her from even bothering. Yes, she'll eventually get it months down the road unless she's insanely lucky, but it certainly won't be fun.

Like Jangles said above, it's the lack of progression that frustrates people. Nobody likes spending their time and feeling like they accomplished nothing for their effort.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Regardless, you’re going to be rolling the dice. Be glad this is a one-time task.

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Doesn't that kinda make it worse though? You got your atmas now you're free! I don't think that's the feeling most people are thinking, I can't speak for anyone but myself this grind is a road block behind RNG it's an illusion of a grind to distract you to try the area out so that if you don't like it you can "grind" elsewhere. I like grinds more than anyone but not the RNG grind didn't work in ARR with atmas and the fact they cannot think of anything new and went back to atmas is a very strange choice.

The fact that I can't even level jobs because SE said so is also a very strange decision like all of this just screams recycled progression, sure OC can be fun at times but you'll always have this nagging feeling behind it all that your 8 hour session got you 3 atmas when another person got 6-7 because of luck. Being glad the atma grind makes me wonder why it was even put into OC in the first place.

My main complaint is that their takeaway will once again be the same: "Oh, you dont like open field explorations? Ok we don't do those again"

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t have a long-term investment for relic.

Bozja Relic was seen as the best way, given you could participate in Field Operations or go FATE grind in other Areas(which is also beneficial since you farm up FATEs for Shared FATE now with the relic’s target being Dawntrail areas).

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I don’t mind grinding. I spent 6 hours a night for 2 weeks in Cosmic just to get a fancy title before OC dropped. The RNG is the issue, and it IS a problem.

It’s the same as Bozja, and that’s definitely not what I would consider the gold standard, as it had the same problem. Fates in or out of zone, but the thing you need may or may not drop. If they even made it so the drop rate was guaranteed in-zone, I’d be satisfied, because I really don’t want to leave the zone to do outside fates, but time-wise that’s probably the more efficient route to go.

As I’ve said elsewhere, imho Eureka was the better relic system. Fates gave a certain amount of crystals, guaranteed so long as you were there to participate for the entire fate and succeeded, you knew how many you needed to get to the next step and could plan your time accordingly. But most importantly, you could see real progress towards your goal!

That’s the biggest reason this feels bad, and it was the same for Bozja. At least this time I actually love the zone and its storyline, and the other rewards are definitely my style. But I’ve been in there for 2 8-hour sessions now. Got nothing at all the first night, got 5 the next. Going into Eureka, I know if I spend X amount of time, I’m coming out of there with at least something to show for my efforts. With Bozja or OC, it could take me 10 days, it could take me 10 weeks. It’s not the ability to grind harder that gets you the weapon faster, it’s luck. And I despise that. I want to grind. But I want to see results for it.

And for all the “it’s a one time step,” seeing the weapons at this point, unless they get better in later stages, the only one I really like is for my main anyway, so the “easier the second time around” is irrelevant to me.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

My main complaint is that their takeaway will once again be the same: "Oh, you dont like open field explorations? Ok we don't do those again"

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I don’t think that’s going to be their takeaway. Also, I think I’m following what others are saying here. If I remember right, they did this back in Bozja by making you farm 20 of 3 different memories that weren’t guaranteed except by CEs(I think?). The fact that both FATEs and CEs are rapid-fired in an area make this a lot faster than having to wait for CEs for a guaranteed when you’ve been grinding FATEs for 30m.

Maybe they should make CEs guaranteed to help out a bit since we already have them spread out across the map since RNG Mitigation is pretty healthy.

It feels bad to put in effort and randomly not get the reward for a prolonged period of time. It's why a lot of games have pity systems / streak breakers. They aren't just doing it to be nice, they're doing it because it's bad psychology of design to make your players feel like their attempts don't matter. Some people are probably going to go 8 hours with no atma and then just give up on the content forever.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

I don’t think that’s going to be their takeaway. Also, I think I’m following what others are saying here. If I remember right, they did this back in Bozja by making you farm 20 of 3 different memories that weren’t guaranteed except by CEs(I think?). The fact that both FATEs and CEs are rapid-fired in an area make this a lot faster than having to wait for CEs for a guaranteed when you’ve been grinding FATEs for 30m.

Maybe they should make CEs guaranteed to help out a bit since we already have them spread out across the map since RNG Mitigation is pretty healthy.

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I think the 3 initial types of memories could drop from mobs, FATEs(higher rate), and CEs(guaranteed). They could also drop from HW FATEs. It was a good formula that they could have just done again, but chose not to for some reason.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Well that’s what RNG is: Random Number Generation. A drop rate. Generally I’ve had times where I’ve sat around for 3h farming and didn’t get one, but just taking my time and playing with others in the instance is where my time goes. The Devs made a smart move to make the zones giving Atmas current expansion zones, since this not only helps people work towards another thing, it still rewards you compared to farming in old zones without Shared FATE.

Regardless, you’re going to be rolling the dice. Be glad this is a one-time task.

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do you have your relic? because today is my third day and I didn't get a single atma do you think this is encouraging? I am now LV 17 and above average have the relic at LV 20 with two phantom job completed and I am still at 6 not even half way still

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

do you have your relic? because today is my third day and I didn't get a single atma do you think this is encouraging? I am now LV 17 and above average have the relic at LV 20 with two phantom job completed and I am still at 6 not even half way still

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We're not even a week into this patch, my god. No need to be that pessimistic.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

We're not even a week into this patch, my god. No need to be that pessimistic.

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dude you don't get I don't you? when you start seeing all your friend getting relic and having put less time into it it's shit and I have to evoid a full zone because I have 3 from one like it should have at least a atma trader for the one you have and can't use but true gonna white knight

but what piss me off is not to not have it but not even being half way done

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Originally Posted by Awful

you'll always have this nagging feeling behind it all that your 8 hour session got you 3 atmas when another person got 6-7 because of luck

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Actually, I won't have that feeling. This is not a race. I'm not competing with anyone. It matters not one whit whether someone gets their demiatmas before I do. (Or whether they get to Lv.20 before I do. Or unlock all the phantom jobs before I do. Or whatever.)

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Originally Posted by Kozh

We're not even a week into this patch, my god. No need to be that pessimistic.

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And yet plenty of people do have their relics already despite it "not even being a week." That's the whole issue people have. RNG isn't fun when it's the only source of progression. Those aforementioned people put in less work and got rewarded based on sheer dumb luck. Are you surprised everyone else is a bit vexed?

Devil's advocate right back at you: there are a plethora of reasons the current relic grind is poorly designed.

Let's start with the initial quest relying on Atma.

Real talk for a second: next to nobody liked the Atma system from the ARR relic, and for good reason. It feels like a cheap way to inflate the initial quest's runtime, doesn't give the player a gauge on the work they have to do to complete their objective, and can bottom line make someone feel like they're wasting their time, especially if they spend several evenings doing everything the game is asking them to and still walk away with nothing to show for it.

The devs seemed to have learned this lesson, too. Rare drop atmas were ditched in favor of other systems that, while still requiring effort, allowed players to better understand how they were progressing through their grind. Eureka's currency, for example, was an uphill battle, but you always knew about where you stood on your relic's completion. Every step felt like progress.

This is good grind design. There were other problems with Eureka, sure, but the relic itself had a trajectory you could map.

"But it's just one time!" I hear someone furiously typing in attempt to one-up me. And here lies the second issue: Once we're done, we're right back to tomes, backsliding us straight back into the much reviled Endwalker relic grind all over again.

This is, as other have pointed out, the worst of both worlds, but i'll go a step further: In my opinion, it also runs completely counter to the design of their exploration zone. Because fates in the South Horn come and go so quickly and Critical Engagements don't feel very reliable in drops for the actual relic, people are instead funneled out and into the world to do Fates in the Dawntrail zones. Then, once the initial quest is done, people don't have to touch any of this content at all. It's roulettes or bust. Occult Crescent might as well not exist unless you have want to grind out the Phantom Jobs or side rewards.

Effectively, the devs designed this big, beautiful zone with a ton of neat boss mobs, lore to uncover, and nooks/crannies to explore... and instead of the relic working better *in* that zone or encouraging people to continue running things *in* that zone, it pushes people *out* of it, both in the initial step and afterwards.

That's... not good game design. Offering options to players is one thing. Actively pushing them out of the content is another. This means that Occult Crescent has a lifespan: one that is inextricably tied to how long it takes for the first flood of people to finish their initial quest and move on to their dungeon grind.

This means that everyone who wanted a relic quest series that actually makes good use of not only their time, but the exploration zone as a whole, were done dirty by the way they set this up. And it's a shame, too, because the Occult Crescent is fantastic.

I personally rather we had collect 1 of each for each jobs relic instead of 3 of each then tomes.

Idk I don't really like the current relic system.

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Originally Posted by Valence

This has never been about the long term investment, it's been about 1) the limited methods required and 2) the inequalities between players in order to achieve it.

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"Limited methods" is how most things in this game work; I don't understand why it comes up most loudly in the context of relic weapons.

Want the Field Commander's Coat? I hope you like Seal Rock. Want the axolotl mount? Go clear P12S. Etc. Etc. The only past relic step I can recall that offered anything resembling a meaningful choice was whether to turn in your ARR relic to start the HW one. Maybe there's a ShB relic step that offered 2+ significantly different options that I'm forgetting.

That said, "the grind" could at least be set up such that the amount of time required is bounded in a way that someone can work out.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I personally rather we had collect 1 of each for each jobs relic instead of 3 of each then tomes.

Idk I don't really like the current relic system.

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I would be ok with that or a system that let you trade the atma you have for a other one you need.

or even like every hour spent in the instances give you a five percent more like 180 minute 0% boost 120 5% boost and 60 10% boost

The atma grind is completely fine as it is.
I am absolutely sick of this game being changed for instant gratification like it was in EW.
Occult Crescent is content I really enjoy since a long time and the last thing I want is the devs going back to how it all was in EW just because they overcorrect everything.

The problem arises when people ONLY want to rush the relic.
Just do the fates and ce's and the atmas drop naturaly. The relic also feels so much better after the whole rng grind.

Relics are SUPPOSED to take time, they are SUPPOSED to be a grind and past relics ALSO had rng in them.
If anything we just returned back to the style of relics where we originally came from. There were and are people who liked that style and we are finally back to having our old content back.
I want to grind, I want rng in my game and I am posting here just in the hope that SE sees that there are people who like how it is.

Honestly, the only thing I can give them flak for is the entrance mechanic into forked tower.

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

I would be ok with that or a system that let you trade the atma you have for a other one you need.

or even like every hour spent in the instances give you a five percent more like 180 minute 0% boost 120 5% boost and 60 10% boost

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That is something I can agree with.
It's a middle ground without destroying what some of us find fun.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

And yet plenty of people do have their relics already despite it "not even being a week." That's the whole issue people have. RNG isn't fun when it's the only source of progression. Those aforementioned people put in less work and got rewarded based on sheer dumb luck. Are you surprised everyone else is a bit vexed?

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I'm among those, apparently. I've just done 3 hours per day (if that), a few hours of that was doing quests and exploring the map. So probably about 6 hours total excluding quests? I did CEs when they appeared, and have got 7 atma so far. Drop rate has felt good from CEs.

I just wish it is 30 crystals of each type rather than this rng... It just feels bad

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

dude you don't get I don't you? when you start seeing all your friend getting relic and having put less time into it it's shit and I have to evoid a full zone because I have 3 from one like it should have at least a atma trader for the one you have and can't use but true gonna white knight

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

And yet plenty of people do have their relics already despite it "not even being a week." That's the whole issue people have. RNG isn't fun when it's the only source of progression. Those aforementioned people put in less work and got rewarded based on sheer dumb luck. Are you surprised everyone else is a bit vexed?

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Yeah, I don't get that at all. Like the other people said, it's not a race. It's not like aiming for BiS with savage weapon drop. Why should it matter to me that other people already done with their relic? Yoj will get the relic eventually anyway. Plus they probably will buff the droprate next relic patch.

I'm prone to being envious of others, but this level of jealousy is just weird to me.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Yeah, I don't get that at all. Like the other people said, it's not a race. It's not like aiming for BiS with savage weapon drop. Why should it matter to me that other people already done with their relic? Yoj will get the relic eventually anyway. Plus they probably will buff the droprate next relic patch.

I'm prone to being envious of others, but this level of jealousy is just weird to me.

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It's typical Main Character Syndrome.