Are healers going to be part of the major overhaul to reintroduce job identity? Have the Dev's said that they would like to try anything new with Healers? As far as I know it's been radio silence for any plans concerning change. Dawntrail adding only the most superficial abilities to every class after three expansions of lackluster healer gameplay has not left me very hopeful. I do appreciate getting new healing classes like Warrior and Paladin but they seem to take away more fun from actual healers in exchange.
Is there any hope for next expansion?
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05-19-2025, 03:55 PMNobleWinterIs there any hope for next expansion?
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05-19-2025, 04:06 PMCarighan
They have plenty job identity, actually. Just nothing to heal, so you never notice their identity, either.
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05-19-2025, 05:49 PMRein_eon_OsborneI cackled hard reading this part.Quote:
Originally Posted by NobleWinter
Humors aside, probably no. As cynical as that sounded, that's what they've been doing for as long as I've been playing personally. They've done absolutely nothing to convince me the otherwise. Not just on healer gameplay, mind you. Long ago, I thought healers are the red hooded step child, which may be true if this is still Shadowbringer. But after Endwalker and everything else that rolls by the following years, they're probably extending the same treatment everywhere else. As if trying to see how low they can cut corner until too many player breaks away. -
05-19-2025, 05:52 PMLaerune
It's a coin toss for now. Yoshi did say at first that we would see something in 7.0, then pushed it to 8.0.
We will know more late this year, when fanfest starts. -
05-19-2025, 06:02 PMPercibelTherenDo they? AST is "better WHM with more sparkles" and SGE is "better SCH". All the healers play the same. Which is why I no longer main the role.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
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05-19-2025, 06:03 PMPercibelTheren
I no longer believe anything they say, to be honest. They either make promises they never deliver on, or deliver a lot less/something vastly different than what it sounds like. If their idea of "reworks" is what they did to AST and BLM in Dawntrail, I'd rather they just don't touch jobs at all.
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05-19-2025, 06:06 PMSupersnow845SGE is just far worse SCH honestlyQuote:
Originally Posted by PercibelTheren
The SGE/SCH imbalance is arguably the most egregious in the game -
05-19-2025, 07:21 PMCarighanWhite Mage is the "raw output" healer. In fact, you can place the four healers on a matrix, where one axis is "output vs utility" and the other is "shield vs heals". WHM is healing and output focused. Astro by comparison is healing and utility focused.Quote:
Originally Posted by PercibelTheren
White Mage emphasizes this in their movement mechanic being free instant cast heals (the Afflati spells), in Cure III which is a highly unique spell for maximum output only situations, their biggest CD being based on raw healing and getting mana-free casts of their biggest spells to further emphasize the ability to just go ham on everyone's health bars. Even an area that increasing healing taken, no matter from which source.
Contrast this with Astro, which shows a way more nuanced and utility focused approach. Their cards and Divinition to enhance the damage ouput of their groups and reduce tank damage taken. Their ability to intermittently provide shielding beyond a single ability. The fact that three of their abilities focus on (ideally) pre-planning for when damage will be taken to automatically re-heal it (which plays into the whole "divining the future"-angle of the job, too). Essential Dignity scaling with health missing. Their biggest CD including a damage GCD and scales with damage taken.
Then you get to the shield healers, Sage is very much what White Mage is for raw health, but for shields. Lots of ability to provide raw output, even while nuking. Instant cast shields, spammable. Damage reductions galore and stackable. Throws cola cans if actual healing is needed. Can supercharge shielding on a tank. And their primary resource for movement depends on shields since they need to be used up to provide it. Also a strong identity due to their manaregen being tied to the skills that further just push more output and more DR onto the group. To keep going, you gotta keep spamming!
And in contrast to that, again, Scholar is more utility centric (also utterly wasted as a concept, this is the one job that doesn't even show slight signs of design or identity, but on a gameplay level it works out). Damage taken debuff, runspeed, extremely varied modes of healing and shielding to cover every situation. In return it can't just spam shields while moving all day, but hey, it can actually spam (a weaker) nuke while moving!
If you actually had to use your whole kit, and your GCD heals/shields, constantly, the jobs would feel quite distinct despite so many similarities. They could be worlds better (and Scholar needs to be scrapped entirely and re-done from the ground up, it's a hodgepodge of all those years of ill-fitting design ideas), but they do work out. Or would, if there was stuff to be healed in this game. -
05-19-2025, 07:57 PMSupersnow845
Just making the healers heal more wouldn’t fix them because they don’t have any means of ability to scale or diversify. SGE but having to heal 10 times as much as you do now is still just boring old SGE because you have a limited pool of MP that even performing each action perfectly can’t increase and none of your heals interact with each other. Like toxicon is not a remotely interesting feedback loop for spamming shields (neither is misery but toxicon is worse). SGE has no design depth (note I’m using SGE as an example but this applies to almost every one except maybe SCH) because it can’t be any more than the sum of its very basic parts because nothing it does makes any other part of its kit any more interesting. No matter how many times toxicon partially refunds e prog it doesn’t change how boring and uninteractive the addersgall system is as an example. Nothing leads to anything else your “interaction” for spamming e PROG is toxicon and that’s it, once that’s happened the kit resets to its base space again. This is to say nothing of the fact that SGE’s kit is such a strong ripoff of SCH’s ShB Kit anyway that even if it refunds for continuing to use things you are still using the same toolkit that SCH has been using for 10 years with minor differences
This is arguably what SCH’s hodgepodge kit gets right. SCH’s job identity has been ripped apart by it being the original healer that’s actually a DPS in disguise before SGE was even a twinkle in the eyes of the developers but it’s Swiss Army knife kit actually benefits it because it can actually do more than the base parts of its kit suggests
A class like SGE flowing like butter is meaningless when said butter is actually just yellow filler with no taste -
05-19-2025, 09:40 PMQyoon
I am willing to say it cannot be worse as it is right now. But i guess it can always be with enought imagination from SQE.
Devs seems to be happy with the fact healers gameplay in normal content is limited to spam one ability for 50% of the fight.
They said nothing, gave no hint about the direction they wants healer to go.
I just hope the whole job identity thingy won't only be a comsmetic overhaul.
I mean we have... things that already does that way better than SE ever did. -
05-19-2025, 11:43 PMmiraidensetsu
No.
If they not said anything, I can expect nothing will come out of it. That means that they didn't even planned how they'll give healers job identities.
I highly doubt that there will be a change that isn't incremental at best. There will be a new heal, a new update for an attack, a random skill and that's it. -
05-20-2025, 02:07 AMQyoon
Yoshi P said 2 years ago theres not problem with healers gameplay. While they also refuse to profide a DPS rotation.
He also said players should give healers a try. I guess he is the one who isn't giving it a try.
Don't have too much hope, you'll just get frustrated when the sad reality comes. -
05-20-2025, 08:54 AMVoryn
Haven’t there just been the vague mentions of job identity coming in 8.0, but not much detail about it?
Either they have to say more about what that entails, or we just wait until we actually see what they do. If they even do much. There could be job reworks, or just small additions that are actually more unique, or just more of the same. -
05-23-2025, 12:39 AMCalysto
I guess AST getting a rework is mandatory with an expansion.
As for the job identity focus, it could be a redesign if the Jobs UI and I wouldn't be surprised.
I wouldn't be surprised if they just skipped the whole thing like they never said it either...
So yeah, hope seems an empty promise like 'become the warrior of darkness' or 'go on a vacation' -
05-24-2025, 03:51 AMRithy255Well it would be if healers are important lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
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06-23-2025, 01:19 AMNaychanOnly if you're hoping for more disapointment. Between content not needing tons of healing and SE not wanting to give more dps options, couple that with them farming out our abilities more and more. I think with a few tweeks and they could get rid of healers all together. Honestly if they are not going to make us actually useful maybe its time to just chuck the whole healer idea. They obvisouly have no clue how to handle it or create content that really needs it. Yes Blah Blah Blah Blah savage where alot of poeple are already getting rid of the 2nd healer to add another dps except on the fights where they have to have one.Quote:
Originally Posted by NobleWinter
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06-23-2025, 11:13 PMRaikai
I'm not overly optimistic. I stopped healing in Endwalker, because I thought even there healers already hit a brick wall when it comes to design.
The only thing they can do without changing things around is adding even more healing checks and new healing oGCD actions (or charges to old actions) to cover them up. But how boring and spreadsheet-y this is?
More likely... when Fanfests are close to an end. They hardly tell anything really useful in the first one. Maybe the second or third if we're lucky. Most likely post Media tour when it's almost launching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laerune
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06-23-2025, 11:39 PMCyberNettrix
I doubt it unfortunately.
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06-25-2025, 02:44 AMDerio
I doubt it but wait until fan fest and media tour. That will either be the shining light or the nail in the coffin.
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06-25-2025, 06:55 AMCaptainLagbeard
It likely can't get much worse... Just about the only thing left is that SGE and AST still have some of their identity.
WHM has just become a light mage instead of anything related to Conjurer, and SCH has become just angel themed with Seraph and Seraphism... -
06-28-2025, 02:06 PMDeathNoodles
I'll do what I've always done which is wait and see how it is. If I don't like it, I don't play it. Frankly jobs are so different from how they felt in 2.0 that I'm willing to give them a chance here.
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07-02-2025, 03:55 PMYovelaLindswoodI do too. I miss HW sch. ARR and HW were so fun to play. Its been a slow downtrend ever since. I want the game to do well but until I see changes i'm just gonna heal in wow. At least there my healers all have a fun damage rotation. Even holy priest has a more fun gameplay loop.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathNoodles
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07-02-2025, 10:05 PMConnor
Sure.
For more DPS cool-downs. They’ll give us a 60s one and be showered with unending praise -
07-02-2025, 11:02 PMYovelaLindswoodIts going to be a combo action too. My baneful impaction will proc bane chungus which is just a single high potency aoe hit or something dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor
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07-03-2025, 12:14 AMConnor‘We heard healers needed more engaging playstyles so we put more procs in your procs, please look forward to it’ lol. It’s chillingly plausibleQuote:
Originally Posted by YovelaLindswood
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07-03-2025, 03:58 PMCarighanHonestly the fact that it's a combo is a good thing in itself. FFXIV has way too many too rubish buttons already, so reducing actions onto single buttons when there's exactly 0 player agency involved anyways is a good thing. Makes that single button feel more meaningful + works against hotbar bloat. Of course, a bigger issue there is the 15-20 buttons wasted on healing that we never need to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by YovelaLindswood
Like if Sage gets a 1-2-3 laser combo, of course that should be on one button. What'd be the point of splitting that up, unless in a stroke of having a stroke the devs decide to end the braindead 1-2-3 combo-ing this game uses for melees/tanks in favor of actual player gameplay say that sometimes you want to do 1-3 and something just 1-2 and stop there, etc. -
07-08-2025, 12:12 AMYovelaLindswoodRealistically 123s should be on one button for all classes. Its not skill. Its just bloat. I get having 3 buttons for gauge generation reasons but the last thing healers need is a 123 combo. They need meaningful inter toolkit actions. Like how bane was a dot spreader. Like how assize was either a dps or heal action based on cleric stance. The reason the sam community was upset with kaitens removal was the same aas this. It removed inter toolkit agency. Hell i'd be fine if energy drain cost fairy gauge and biolysis had a chance to give you 5 gauge with each tick. Something that doesn't make every action in my toolkit feel like a complete vacuum from the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
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07-08-2025, 01:13 AMRein_eon_Osborne
The only 1-2-3 that I'd argue as not being a 'bloat' would be PLD's & DRK's.
One could easily choose to do 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2 if they really need that extra MP... who knows... for survival (hey, I know this might be cursed lol)? It's niche, perhaps. But it's the only example I could think of from today's kits. That is the kind of 1-2-3 I wouldn't wish to be consolidated into 1 button press.
If one of the healer could get that sort of 1-2-3, I wouldn't mind. But that's a very low bar to clear lol. -
07-08-2025, 02:09 AMmiraidensetsu
Please, forget about Cleric Stance.
That was a punish buttons with no real benefit. And it was just to cover for spaghetti code, not to add some real interaction. -
07-14-2025, 12:27 PMRaikai
If I could, I would ask Yoshida just one question regarding healers:
I know the intentional simplistic dps tools. Got it, it is what it is... But why all four healers NEED to have the same nuke and the same dot? Was not possible to think - at least - something more distinct, given that those 2 buttons are a huge chunk of what you press through an encounter? -
07-21-2025, 04:49 AMGullis
nah i've given up. mostly because JP players like current healer gameplay
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07-21-2025, 05:11 AMPip_ChickThe only healers that matter are BLU, RDM and WAR. And they seem to be doing fine, weird glitch that they have their icons in different colours though. It's probably just my settings...Quote:
Originally Posted by NobleWinter
But for real now, I don't understand the lack of communication. Healers have been asking for something to change since I think SHB, but it got a big spike in DT due to the media tour fiasco. It was annoying and funny, but it got a lot of eyes on it, even saw people talking about it in game.
But the devs keep being silent on it. This does not make them look good, with the apologies given in the last Live letter you would think they would mobilise to action, like using the news channels to keep us up to date on what they are working and planning.
There should also be soon an announcement for the new Fan fest. But instead of doing what they did with the visual updates in DT fan fests, they should take the time to talk about the gameplay and role changes that they will be making. If they can talk about Falafel chins for 25 minutes, they can talk about the new healer changes in more detail. They could give a 30 or more minutes presentation at all 3 events, Tanks for NA, Healers for EU and DPS for JP.
A lot of the players have very little trust in them at the moment, the content promised did not deliver, was made needlessly complicated and took a long time to arrive. For example if you are not a raider, the time between getting content from 7.1 to 7.25 was about 7 months.
They have to work very hard to win back the good will and respect of the playerbase. Not everyone is happy RPing and AFKing in Limsa and there is just so many ocean fishing trips one can stomach.
7.3 might be interesting due to the deep dungeon, but will it be more like HOH or Orthos? And will it be in 7.3 or 7.35?
They need to get thtir heads back in the game, because as it stands now, it doesn't feel like they are playing their game. -
08-08-2025, 03:58 PMSani2341Just to then take the one change going the right direction away from us inbetween media tour and Release. (Looks at SGE DoTs stacking in the media tour)Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikai
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08-08-2025, 04:08 PMCarighanIt's probably because they don't know how to avoid a negative fallout from any communication: They hear a lot of very vocal feedback that healers want tougher healer, more involved gameplay and more damage gameplay, yet whenever they simplify something, their stats show queues going down from more people queueing as healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pip_Chick
As in, the vocal feedback is opposed to the non-vocal one. That's usually a reason you get this, there's no way to announce what you - apparently - must do without pissing the already vocal part of the community off even more. In any case it'd be highly unlikely we get much pre-information even if they're working on a larger role-wide rework because due to the nature of healing (or not-healing) in this game that'd have to also include massive combat-system rebalancing and I can understand a large company not wanting to commit to press on that before absolutely 110% having finalized the first set of changes, so it'd be very close to 8.0 even if something happens (which I don't see, as per the simplification-usually-works issue above). -
09-10-2025, 08:33 AMReginald_CainHow you make green bar go up shouldn't soley be your job identity. Scholar used to be the dot mage with shields, white mage the elementalist regen healer that had powerful raw heals and astro was the gambling buffer healer that could flex to shield or regen. They had more unique damage kits and healing kits in stormblood and then the devs changed them to appeal to idiots who wanted to only heal in a game where the everybody used to have fun contributing to the raid dps in there own skill expressive ways. The game would not become more fun if we took more damage. It would just be even more repetitive. Instead of broil spam im doing gcd heal spam wow so cool and exciting. No it's not. Bring back distinct damage dealing methods to tanks and healers. They all feel like the same thing with different flavors especially healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
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09-11-2025, 01:28 AMCarighanOf course not, but that's also not what I said so I'm unsure why you'd reply that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain
They were not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain
Who is defining healers just by their healing now, exactly? .Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain
[citation needed]Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain
Now imagine, because this seems really really really important to you when it comes to the damage abilities that you had more than a single heal. Wow, crazy I know. Mind blown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain
Was that so hard? -
09-11-2025, 08:43 AMReginald_CainI will cede that the role could benefit from more opportunities to use its heals and more INTERESTING healing skills added.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
That being said I scholar had 3 dots it could use and apply to multiple enemies. So yes it was a dot mage with shields. Was it more simple than dot mage in other games by a huge margin yes but was it infinitely more engaging than it is now? For the ones who played it then yes absolutely. Citation? Multiple players over years of playing. How a healer heals should play a part in their identity but not the only thing. That's how they feel now. The only difference between healers now is mostly the healing kit that's a huge issue to me. We could both get what we want and the game would be better for it but the devs don't understand that.