Hi, localization-bug fixers,
When talking with Lewrey (Amh Araeng, x26.9, y16.3) and selecting "Talk about Ryne's second report," in the resultant cut scene Ryne has a grammatical error. In her line "Don't worry, it's nothing dangerous! I was wondering if you'd like to join Gaia and I for some traditional Mord Souq afternoon tea?", "Gaia and I" should be "Gaia and me".
(Gaia and Ryne are the object of that phrase, the ones being joined, so it requires an object pronoun, not a subject one. It's easier to tell that "I" is wrong if you simplify to just the pronoun -- "join I for some tea" is clearly off, and "join me for some tea" is correct. Similarly, if it were instead "Gaia and I would like to invite you to tea," they'd be the subject, those doing the action, so would need a subject pronoun; you'd say "I would like to invite you," not "me would like to invite you".)
Cheers, and thanks for a good game!
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04-14-2025, 02:38 AMBibliomancerGrammatical error: "Talk about Ryne's second report" from Lewrey, Ryne's dialog
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04-14-2025, 12:33 PMSannaR
I don't think it is wrong grammatically. They are the ones who are doing the action in that sentence. They are the ones doing the going. The Wol and the tea aren't currently doing anything. Ryne also is already doing your later example with her wondering.
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04-14-2025, 06:29 PMMargasian
When "someone and I/me", if the speaker is a subject (the one who perform an action), you should use "I" ("Gaia and I join"), and if the speaker is an object (the one on whom the action is performed), you should use "me" ("join Gaia and me").
Is it right? -
04-14-2025, 06:41 PMRuriStoneIt is Ryne doing the asking so to simplify it here you would say 'I am going for some tea' and then because Gaia is going along it becomes ' join Gaia and I for some tea'Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibliomancer
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04-15-2025, 08:15 AMBibliomancer
Nope, it's definitely not "I was wondering if you'd like to join Gaia and I for some tea" any more than it would be "I was wondering if you'd like to join I for some tea", though it's a common error.
To clarify the sentence's subjects/objects for RuriStone and anyone else wondering: The subject of "was wondering" is "I" (Ryne, doing the wondering), and everything from "if" on is the complex phrase that serves as its object (that which was being wondered). The subject of that phrase's verb "you'd like" is "you" (the player, doing the wondering), and its object is the phrase that follows it (what's being liked). The subject of "to join" is still "you" (the player, doing the joining), and its object is "Gaia and I" (the ones being joined).
Here are a few references:
https://www.britannica.com/dictionar...-Use-Me-and-I-
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/grammar/me-vs-i/
https://www.grammarbook.com/blog/pro...-vs-me-review/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/l...rnitv264.shtml -
04-15-2025, 08:40 AMRongway
The prescriptive grammar is "would you like to do something with Gaia and me" because "would you like to do something with me" not "would you like to do something with I". If Gaia and I were doing something, it would be "Gaia and I are doing something" because "I am doing something" not "me am doing something."
However, if you look at how real English speakers use language in real situations, the descriptive grammar, a realistic image of what real English speakers say and what other real English speakers understand, is that it doesn't matter if you say "Gaia and I" or "Gaia and me" in either case because a significant portion of real English speakers use the "wrong" construct in either or both cases, other real English speakers understand what they mean regardless, and the real world examples show that this isn't going to change any time soon.
You should always ignore prescriptive grammatical errors in character dialog and assume they are purposeful writing decisions for that character's speech and not errors, unless the character is someone like Urianger who should obviously use the prescriptive constructs. -
04-15-2025, 09:11 AMBibliomancer
I reported it because I have never noticed similar errors from Ryne (or others off the top of my head, for that matter) in FFXIV dialog, so the error here doesn't seem true to Ryne's personal grammar.
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04-15-2025, 09:25 AMSannaR
The sentence is a compound sentence though. At least that's how I read it. As how I read it there should be a pause after wondering. So, if anything it could use more punctuation with a coma, semicolon or even a period there. Since "I was wondering" could be it's own smaller sentence. Heck you could even cut out traditional Mord Souq if you really wanted to. Again still both Gia and Ryne are the ones doing the action not the WoL who presumably is just standing there as the two of them pause on their way to having some afternoon tea. The WoL is being wondered about and the one who is being asked to go do the action.
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04-15-2025, 11:19 PMBibliomancer
I'm sorry, but no, that's not how English works. First, this sentence is a complex one, not a compound one. Second, even in compound sentences, subject/object pronoun use still applies. Say, for instance, Ryne said, "I like to eat coffee biscuits with you and Gaia, and Gaia wants to eat coffee biscuits with you and me." For that compound sentence's first independent clause ("I like to eat coffee biscuits with you and Gaia"), the speaker is Ryne, its verb's subject is also Ryne (Ryne's doing the verb's action, the liking). The speaker of the second independent clause is still Ryne, but its verb's subject is Gaia (Gaia's doing the verb's action, the wanting). See my breakdown above of the subjects and objects of Ryne's actual line.
I'm going to stop attempting grammar explanations in this thread; I've given sufficient specifics for the localizers and editors. -
04-16-2025, 12:34 AMSannaRI agree that we'll just have to agree to disagree as I feel you're assigning the actions to the wrong pronouns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibliomancer
If you don't want to think about it in a grammatical way then think about what is happening in the scene. Gia and Ryne are on their way to have some afternoon tea. They spot the Warrior of Darkness on their way. The WoD was most likely looking for them or to go and ask the npc that is playing record keeper since Ryne tends to only mention Gia in Eden related dialog. So at the moment the WoD is as I've said presumably standing still and not doing anything. While the two teenagers are still going to most likely than not continue on to having said tea regardless if the WoL joins them or not. Now they could prolong the getting of said tea depending on the WoD's response but it definitely will happen cause those coffee biscuits won't dip themselves. -
04-16-2025, 07:52 PMRongwaySanna, the way you're trying to explain it just isn't at all how English grammar works. The thing that matters is if you take away the other person, would you say "me" or would you say "I"?Quote:
Originally Posted by SannaR
Gaia and (me/I) are having afternoon tea.
Me am having afternoon tea.
I am having afternoon tea.
Gaia and I are having afternoon tea.
Would you like to join Gaia and (I/me)?
Would you like to join I?
Would you like to join me?
Would you like to join Gaia and me?
The only funny case is the predicate nominative, which is where you use subject pronouns (I/thou/they/we/you/they) instead of object pronouns (I/thee/them/us/ye/them) after the verb "to be" because "to be" is basically an equal sign, and the sentence is reversible.
The people having tea are Gaia and I.
Gaia and I are the people having tea.
That's not something that applies in OP's issue though.
Anyway, what I explained in my earlier post about prescriptive vs descriptive grammar applies and this whole thread is a non-issue. -
04-16-2025, 11:31 PMSannaRYeah a few FC mates cleared it all up. Yet the op in later replies makes it come off as though they're trying to place the action being done by the WoD. As the WoD being the one who is doing the wondering and the one in mid transit which is how I got to my stance of how can the WoD be the one doing any of the action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rongway