They are gutting Black Mage even more in 7.2

Notice how Firestarter and Thundercloud no longer have timers?

https://i.ibb.co/Kpv64z1s/1741949233606974.png

And F4 cast time is also now lower than the GCD!

https://i.ibb.co/YVD1q2f/Screenshot-...-14-063218.png

Yeah sure guys, please keep coping that they'll finally Make Jobs Great Again (TM) in 8.0.


---------- Edit: Added in full list of observed changes ------------

https://i.ibb.co/CKJSrtnn/Screenshot...-15-191128.png

Keep dreaming! Everything will be braindead and homogenized and you WILL love it!

yoshi-p on that spellspeed grindset

BLM has been buffed to high heaven to compensate for PCT who is now getting nerfed

At this rate BLM will be the strongest job in the game while having an internal complexity rivalling WHM minus WHM’s healing

15/10 design

Remember when Ruin3, Glare, Broil, Malefic, Verstone and Verfire had the full Casttime aswell?

Fire4 1,5s Casttime in 8.0.
Look forward to it.

To get some actual numbers, I went back.

On the first hardcast, the cast time showed 1.48 seconds, this was under Leylines.

Currently, at base Spell Speed, Fire 4 takes 2.8 seconds to cast, which, if we take Ley Lines into account, it would be a 2.38 second cast.

He did hardcast Fire 4 without Ley Lines and it looked to be a 1.6second cast (though that doesn't line up with the above cast time when taking ley lines into account, but this is all rough estimate anyway).

Most importantly though, the cast always finished before the GCD finished it's cooldown.

So, it looks like they have given BLM a weave window after every Fire 4 now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

To get some actual numbers, I went back.

On the first hardcast, the cast time showed 1.48 seconds, this was under Leylines.

Currently, at base Spell Speed, Fire 4 takes 2.8 seconds to cast, which, if we take Ley Lines into account, it would be a 2.38 second cast.

He did hardcast Fire 4 without Ley Lines and it looked to be a 1.6second cast (though that doesn't line up with the above cast time when taking ley lines into account, but this is all rough estimate anyway).

Most importantly though, the cast always finished before the GCD finished it's cooldown.

So, it looks like they have given BLM a weave window after every Fire 4 now.

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The cast finishes before the GCD because there isnt a single cast in the game anymore that has a 2,5 base casttime. Everything is 1,5 and 2,0 now except BLM before the next patch. Even skills that were 3s in the past like Med2 and Asp Helios are 1,5s now.

I see that the Trashologification has also reached BLM.

this game needs a general strike tbh

Might just be me needing new classes, or Yoshi having cheat. but isn't the fire/ice phase countdown missing?

https://imgur.com/a/qn1gDmu
https://imgur.com/a/qn1gDmu

Left is from the liveletter, while right is from random youtube video.

The normal countdown in the upper right corner is missing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

Might just be me needing new classes, or Yoshi having cheat. but isn't the fire/ice phase countdown missing?

https://imgur.com/a/qn1gDmu
https://imgur.com/a/qn1gDmu

Left is from the liveletter, while right is from random youtube video.

The normal countdown in the upper right corner is missing.

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Yes I think there is already another thread about it.

I know, I am not allowed to say this, but I am waiting to get rid of AF / UI timers since EW release.

Reducing the cast time of F4 however, I don't know... BLM was the only job in the game which was slower than the GCD, I will miss that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I see that the Trashologification has also reached BLM.

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A shame that it was such a blessing when it was implemented for AST specifically, and now they are throwing that change around to everything like it's some all problem solving electrope.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

Might just be me needing new classes, or Yoshi having cheat. but isn't the fire/ice phase countdown missing?

https://imgur.com/a/qn1gDmu
https://imgur.com/a/qn1gDmu

Left is from the liveletter, while right is from random youtube video.

The normal countdown in the upper right corner is missing.

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They're eliminating Astral Fire/Umbral Ice timers.

Mao so glad that Mao already cancelled subscription. Changes whats coming makes Mao cry. Mao sad....

Can I request a general break on making BLM easier? I feel like it's been happening with every single patch in DT and we could use one without these changes. Keeping perfect fire uptime and casting every gcd is already not even required to beat Savage, let alone the sorts of content where people who are confused about where to place their movement abilities are pressing buttons.

As someone who plays BLM for fun, my main concern with this change is, what is the point of Paradox and by extension Firestarter? Just those 2 being insta cast already offered a lot of wiggle room in terms of movement and keeping AF ticking. Not to mention pairing this with what seems like weave windows after each F4, which makes it even easier to weave in Triple/Swiftcast. Makes no sense.

"How do we fix BLM now that PCT is running the show? Easy, we just turn BLM INTO PCT, problem solved."

As a BLM main, and not even a bleeding-edge raidbrained one, I'm beyond disappointed at this. It's enough to make me want to unsub, tbh. I've always joked that BLM was always good because it's Yoshida's main job, and ever since the beginning of DT that Yoshida couldn't have possibly even played BLM, because these changes just keep making BLM worse and worse. It's just another bad job change on the pile of questionable decisions they've made, and it's unfortunately making me no longer want to even play the game.

I unironically think their entire job design team should be fired.

I never liked timers and would rather have procs and buffs that I can spend with agency and tactically whenever I like, but if BLM mains loved their timers, then who I am to tell them they were wrong?
The cast time reduction though, that's literally a job identity genocidal attempt...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I see that the Trashologification has also reached BLM.

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well if it takes hitting dps with it to make them actually realize what healers have been talking about for the past 5 years

I can only say that l play blm in pvp... So This doesn't affect me

I started playing BLM in the end of EW hopeful that the job would improve on its already stellar but admittedly complex design that made it stand out so much from the rest of the cast. 7.0 came and with it a punch to the gut, while there were some good changes that made the job feel better to play it also came with the gross oversimplification and downright removal of non-standard rotations that were so characteristic to the job. Hell the job had even lost umbral ice paradox(a change later reverted).

All for what? The people that played the job got reduced (partly because of a problematic brethren that I am sure people have already extensively talked about) but also because the job felt off. Patch 7.1 restored some hope in the job giving us more options to play around with and actually was the first time that we saw certain fights actually favoring BLM even with the absurd state of PCT.

Going through the clear rates that the community has gotten the job isn't more popular despite the simplification. By a significant margin as well. Taking first the latest ultimate the tally is 480 clears for BLM *cough* 6000 clears for PCT, 750 for RDM and finally 264 for SMN. Going through savage the story is significantly worse with BLM having the least clears of the casters at 5453, PCT at 15747, RDM at 9310 and SMN at 10447.
If we take Anabyssos we will also see that BLM comparatively has a significantly higher representation BLM at 5176, Red Mage at 6930, Summoner at 13059.

What can we extrapolate from this data? First of all that PCT is at least extremely popular (though admittedly extremely over tuned). Secondly, BLM lost popularity amongst caster players in a more severe manner than the rest. This all poses the question, if the DT BLM changes were this bad for the job why is SE doubling down on simplifying it? One could make the argument that since PCT and BLM are competing for the same "role" (no-res caster) that it is only normal for it to lose so much in popularity. However the threads of people abandoning BLM because of the design decisions are almost too numerous to count with people expressing their frustrations in every way they know.

In summary, I am baffled to see SE completely neglect the people that invested their time into the job, when community sentiment shows that people heavily criticize the direction it has taken. Personally I have seen 3 of my favorite jobs get progressively dumber to play in GNB, DRK and BLM, which is souring my experience significantly. If this is the preview of changes we are going to see for 8.0 I want out. I don't feel like my time is respected and I do not see myself continuing to cope. Please SE, don't die on this hill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eastwall

I can only say that l play blm in pvp... So This doesn't affect me

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Then why bother replying?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Mao so glad that Mao already cancelled subscription. Changes whats coming makes Mao cry. Mao sad....

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Tells you how out of touch Yoshida is, everything he does to BLM just makes Mao cry. Disappointing and sad behavior from him.

I'm not even joking. I hate how this is pushing away people that used to love the game and love the job of BLM.

Someone above said people have "expressed their disappointment in every way they know." Well, there's only one last way for me to do so, and that's to do what Mao did. I'm unsubbing after what I saw in 7.2 LL. I'm done being treated like my money is a given, while content is made more and more braindead and jobs are nerfed into oblivion.

Yeah, I'm sure changes like this will make up for the DT slump. Absolutely. Definitely won't convince people who actually like the game to give up on it.
If these make it through to live, I'm just deleting this character and done with this game.

It's like watching someone you know succumb to addiction, save that the addiction here is turning everything into nonsensical and clunky filler rotations where half of the buttons serve no real purpose and there's nothing to manage. I've been through it with Summoner, Paladin, and Dragoon already: enough is enough.

I'm not sure if people have picked up on this or taken the full reality of it, but reducing cast times like this specifically after outright removing the cast times behind other spells like despair or fire paradox, literally hints at more and more DDR to accommodate for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

BLM has been buffed to high heaven to compensate for PCT who is now getting nerfed

At this rate BLM will be the strongest job in the game while having an internal complexity rivalling WHM minus WHM’s healing

15/10 design

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Do you have a link in regard to PCT?

What is their obsession with melee dominance

PCT dominates the meta for 2 patches and their response is to nerf PCT, lobotomise BLM AND nerf it AND buff the melees

Like why do they hate casters so much

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valence

I'm not sure if people have picked up on this or taken the full reality of it, but reducing cast times like this specifically after outright removing the cast times behind other spells like despair or fire paradox, literally hints at more and more DDR to accommodate for.

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I had that thought, too. "Just how lightning fast are these mechanics going to get that we need to move this much?"

Making jobs easier not solution, game already *slow* by modern action combat game, people need to be engaged mid combat not just by possibility of mechanics failure but trying to main jobs resources/combat. Such a disappointment where jobs identity is going, hopes of 8 jobs revamped not looking good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I had that thought, too. "Just how lightning fast are these mechanics going to get that we need to move this much?"

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Especially since PCT and RDM are at the limits of their movement potential (and SCH is already in the “just drop casts to position you are a healer anyway” phase)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Especially since PCT and RDM are at the limits of their movement potential (and SCH is already in the “just drop casts to position you are a healer anyway” phase)

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I started leveling PCT and definitely feeling those cast times. Not max level yet, though, but I have newfound respect for my static's PCT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Especially since PCT and RDM are at the limits of their movement potential (and SCH is already in the “just drop casts to position you are a healer anyway” phase)

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wouldn't be surprised if they've also deleted Energy Drain from SCH and gave it a charge of RuinIV every Aetherflow to match SMN

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krokov

Do you have a link in regard to PCT?

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It's from the live letter. Can't really screenshot it but they basically said according to the translators, "We tried really hard not to nerf picto but we have to. It is only a slight nerf though."

I would not be surprised if the melee buff is to compensate for the picto nerf in addition to whatever else they will do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What is their obsession with melee dominance

PCT dominates the meta for 2 patches and their response is to nerf PCT, lobotomise BLM AND nerf it AND buff the melees

Like why do they hate casters so much

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I mean, if casters are the drowning kid, what about the rphys skeleton at the bottom of the pool?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

It's from the live letter. Can't really screenshot it but they basically said according to the translators, "We tried really hard not to nerf picto but we have to. It is only a slight nerf though."

I would not be surprised if the melee buff is to compensate for the picto nerf in addition to whatever else they will do.

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The melee buff was unrelated

That was their flawed design premise that they could buff melee then make melee uptime harder….even though melees already do 10% more damage than the non damage casters supposedly for this reason

Even with all the complaints about VPR/MNK/DRG/AST/BLM, jobs are being dumbed down yet again.

How do they expect us to believe in anything good for the 8.0 job rework? It also seems that the raid design won't be much different this time, and 7.2 was supposedly the beginning of a new fight design that would pave the way for the 8.0 job changes.

Something also tells me that the PCT changes will either be insufficient or outright kill the job. There is no middle ground when the main issue we have is the interaction between PCT’s toolkit and Ultimate, yet they only focus on numbers rather than the toolkit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brinn12

Even with all the complaints about VPR/MNK/DRG/AST/BLM, jobs are being dumbed down yet again.

How do they expect us to believe in anything good for the 8.0 job rework? It also seems that the raid design won't be much different this time, and 7.2 was supposedly the beginning of a new fight design that would pave the way for the 8.0 job changes.

Something also tells me that the PCT changes will either be insufficient or outright kill the job. There is no middle ground when the main issue we have is the interaction between PCT’s toolkit and Ultimate, yet they only focus on numbers rather than the toolkit.

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PCT’s change will either be

A) nerf it so hard it needs ultimate amounts of downtime to even approach melee damage, otherwise it’s doing DNC damage with no rezz
B) make motifs require a target AND nerf it not quite as hard

There is no way PCT makes it out of this in any sort of somewhat decent shape and it’s still being treated better than BLM

Never played Back Mage in my life, can anyone explain this in melee terms?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

It's from the live letter. Can't really screenshot it but they basically said according to the translators, "We tried really hard not to nerf picto but we have to. It is only a slight nerf though."

I would not be surprised if the melee buff is to compensate for the picto nerf in addition to whatever else they will do.

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The melee buff is to compensate for supposedly less possible uptime due to the new mechanics.

if these changes actually happen, I'm going to end up deleting my account.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Underscore

Never played Back Mage in my life, can anyone explain this in melee terms?

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Take 5.0 SAM and in one patch turn it into 7.1 VPR