Fix the freaking matchmaking in CC

or give an option to forfeit a game.

How many time is a game determined on the composition. when you get for example 2 tank 2 heal in a team against you, what do you want to do, they're unkillable.

Half of the frustration from this game mode comes from how unfair some composition are. and that would be bearable in a matchmaking that put you people your lvl, but you always end with someone that barely does 100k damage.

It's the only thing with some kind of shelf life we have, and its matchmaking is so bad.

They should really give more weight to subroles, like if there's only 1 tank and 1 healer in queue then favor splitting them to separate teams. Likewise they should put more weight on getting melee/ranged numbers balanced between teams.

Also with the resurgence of players in Ranked, the bracket expansion should probably be reverted or put behind some timer. Seeing fresh unranked people play in same bracket as those who are currently blasting through Gold is kinda bad for both of them.

As for completely one sided matches, both modes currently have them happen. Casual has always been a clownfiesta that places top 100 with first timers and post-reset ranked will have a duration in which the higher ranks climb out and get placed with newer people. This will eventually even out for Ranked, but never for Casual.

It also doesn't help that some healer and tank jobs got rather ridiculous damage. So they are bordering on being highly resilient DPS instead of mere supports. It's not a rare sight that a GNB, a WHM or an AST outdamage the DPS in a match while also having a strong defensive kit + utilities. And then there's RDM, the inversion of said principle, a strong DPS with impressive defensive options. If your job has "just" damage (+ the bare minimum of protective skills) then you'll fare worse against someone with strong damage + strong shields/health regeneration + CC...

We don't have "mere supports" anymore, in addition, that's not unique to this game. In at least one other game that I played that was designed for PvP , the highest ranked players , out of all jobs, were what you (rather dismissively) refer to as "mere supports". Given 2 skilled players- it definitely was more challenging as a DPS to compete against someone who had both good attacks , utility and heals.

All of this to say that we don't have roles any more, I can understand the argument being made that some jobs should have more utility or more DPS skills than others, however all jobs are "resilient DPS", and yes- given a skilled player, why shouldn't a healer or potentially a tank (a) be able to significant damage and (b) potentially be a difficult opponent? It's not unknown in PvP games.

Roles have definitely been washed out, but I think in 7.1 we still have low-damage, squishy tanks, tanky DPS, and AST which can do everything.

This matchmaking is to avoid long wait time we had in the Feast
Take out both tank and healer role to make Q time under 5 mins
So, just deal with it

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

We don't have "mere supports" anymore, in addition, that's not unique to this game. In at least one other game that I played that was designed for PvP , the highest ranked players , out of all jobs, were what you (rather dismissively) refer to as "mere supports". Given 2 skilled players- it definitely was more challenging as a DPS to compete against someone who had both good attacks , utility and heals.

All of this to say that we don't have roles any more, I can understand the argument being made that some jobs should have more utility or more DPS skills than others, however all jobs are "resilient DPS", and yes- given a skilled player, why shouldn't a healer or potentially a tank (a) be able to significant damage and (b) potentially be a difficult opponent? It's not unknown in PvP games.

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Huh? Really confused how my comment could come across so wrong but I'm not dismissing healers/supports at all. I play PvP healers extensively both in this game (I was a SGE and AST main before 7.1, so I understand the concept - and the fun - of a DPS healer, that's what I loved SGE for and what I am dearly missing after the update) as well as in other pvp games.

My point is not that we need a super neat distinctions where healers don't do anything but heal and tanks don't do anything but tank. That completely misses what my comment is about.

I know that we don't have strict roles but as you say yourself: a class that has it all - damage, heals/mit and utility will have advantages over a class that doesn't.
We still have soft roles though: tank jobs are geared more towards tanking wrt both their kit and the job they most commonly take over in a match. Healers are geared more towards healing which is why they have much more means to keep others (and themselves) alive than red jobs.
And no, there are definitely classes that are not resilient DPS. There's a reason why they are called squishies.
So we also can't say that the distinction between roles doesn't exist at all or is obsolete
This means there still needs to be some balance. A class shouldn't be Reinhardt, Sojourn and Mercy all in one whereas others are only Tracer.

Take (pre 7.1) SGE for example. Technically a healer but had massive DPS. However its DPS was balanced with SGE not healing as much. At the same time it was super squishy so you had to work around that.

And if you look at tanks and healers in Overwatch, some of them are great for DPSing but they often have a much simpler DPS kit. Their strength lies in their ability to stay alive longer and use that strategically to their advantage against jobs that have more extra means of damage but less sustain.

Right now we have some classes that are much closer to being universalists who excel in all three areas. This gives them a clear advantage over classes who aren't.
And that's the problem I was talking about.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

Huh? Really confused how my comment could come across so wrong but I'm not dismissing healers/supports at all. I play PvP healers extensively both in this game (I was a SGE and AST main before 7.1, so I understand the concept - and the fun - of a DPS healer, that's what I loved SGE for and what I am dearly missing after the update) as well as in other pvp games.

My point is not that we need a super neat distinctions where healers don't do anything but heal and tanks don't do anything but tank. That completely misses what my comment is about.


Take (pre 7.1) SGE for example. Technically a healer but had massive DPS. However its DPS was balanced with SGE not healing as much. At the same time it was super squishy so you had to work around that.

And if you look at tanks and healers in Overwatch, some of them are great for DPSing but they often have a much simpler DPS kit. Their strength lies in their ability to stay alive longer and use that strategically to their advantage against jobs that have more extra means of damage but less sustain.

Right now we have some classes that are much closer to being universalists who excel in all three areas. This gives them a clear advantage over classes who aren't.
And that's the problem I was talking about.

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snipped (length)
I appreciate your adding your prior experience of playing a healer- I understood that it was in other games in addition to this game, because I have not really seen this game have what i would consider to be a DPS healer as yet.

That being said, I don't believe I misread your earlier remark. Nor are we disagreeing on a number of points. We can nitpick on what is or is not "resilient", yes some jobs are tankier than others. However if I take a specific example, such as healers- I would say that they have a good mix of both damage, utility and healing. They c an contribute and they won't just be picked off . They can be fun to play. My definition doesn't mean that they can necessarily go and duel any job.

Now 2 points since I am in a bit of a rush- you made a comment about some jobs having "ridiculous" damage and no job can have it all- regarding the "ridiculous damage" - maybe, too soon to tell, I believe that part of the complaints could be valid, part is due to people adapting. Regarding "no job can have it all" - - yes, I absolutely agree with you, however, not so easy to design. I realize I'm in a CC thread, so I will leave this and say that we are waaaaay overdue to have separate CC and FL job designs because the last thing I want is to kneecap any job in one mode because changes are made that make sense in a very different mode

[ not directly addressing the main post, but for everyone that seeks to blame matchmaking ]

I know you guys dont wanna hear this, but most players are not at a level where matchmaking is a bigger issue than their own proficiency in playing PvP.

Every "bad" match is an opportunity to learn and you can't tell me ya'll saints that do nothing wrong and THEN blame matchmaking.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

[ not directly addressing the main post, but for everyone that seeks to blame matchmaking ]

I know you guys dont wanna hear this, but most players are not at a level where matchmaking is a bigger issue than their own proficiency in playing PvP.

Every "bad" match is an opportunity to learn and you can't tell me ya'll saints that do nothing wrong and THEN blame matchmaking.

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Nothing to do with skill level to be honest
Team composition and chemistry with your team mate is the primary factor
Even all players are at same skill level, there will always few players you can’t work with no matter what, and that is not anyone’s fault

Plus, some classes are just massively overtuned. Assuming people know their kit, an astrologian is gonna curb-stomp a sage. A ninja is going to outshine a monk 9 times out of 10.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

or give an option to forfeit a game.

How many time is a game determined on the composition. when you get for example 2 tank 2 heal in a team against you, what do you want to do, they're unkillable.

Half of the frustration from this game mode comes from how unfair some composition are. and that would be bearable in a matchmaking that put you people your lvl, but you always end with someone that barely does 100k damage.

It's the only thing with some kind of shelf life we have, and its matchmaking is so bad.

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I actually went against this comp yesterday Ast/Whm/Pld/Gnb//Mch against my Ast/Sge/Gnb/Nin/Smn. It was so hard to break that barrier. Granted my sage wasn’t the best at all and my summoner loved being on point for some reason but it was fun nonetheless. Almost went the entire 15 mins.

*laughs

I kinda get where Op is coming from. Try to stay positive, but sometimes you just feel screwed coming out the gate. For me, it’s never about the enemy team composition but my own. When I see a combination of any 2 dnc, pct, brd, or rpr, I feel I already got 2 feet in the grave damage wise (experiences vary). The more matches you play, the more familiar you get with people’s current outputs, and yeah, sadly sometimes you know you’re already dead at the start.