Patch 7 1 speculation

Look I know there aren't many days til we get our hands on the patch, but we weren't really left with much until now to guess what we might be doing post 7.0 story wise.

1st who had a Pandeamonium cap quest on their bingo card? What could we even be doing that involves npcs from that raid?

What or who is threatening the Hhetsarro that Koana has to whip out the MCH pvp LB and most likely bust his glasses due to not expecting the recoil?

What do we think the sepia tone swirling ball in what looks like Heritage Found to be?

Don't even get me started on the XI cause atm it just looks like a mishmash of a few places that for some reason we will be having Bakool Ja Ja tag along for. Yes I know he is part of the landsguard now, but unless this involves a certain gate he's meant to be help guarding I don't see why we would be having him just watch us fight Prishe, Fafnir, the Ark Angels and the Shadowlord without him involving himself in the fights.

Anyone who doesn't know the zones we have Lower Jeuno, the Shadow Lord's Throne Room, Ru'Aun Gardens and Dragon's Aery/ The Boyahda Tree/The Sanctuary of Zi'Tah.

Are we just double or would this be a triple downing on another character named Gulool Ja Ja as there is an XI version that is the leader of the mamool ja forces that attack Aht Urhgan as we do see a blessed sibling that seems to be on Perishe's side vs the elezen in the gallant surcoat?

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Originally Posted by SannaR

1st who had a Pandeamonium cap quest on their bingo card? What could we even be doing that involves npcs from that raid?

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Nobody I'm all that interested in talking to, honestly. The cast of Pandaemonium consists of people I have no feelings about, people I actively don't want to see again, and dead people. So yeah, I'm not really enthusiastic about that one, although I am a little curious; none of those are exactly ready starts for a story.

As for the rest, that's a lot of focus on FFXI stuff I can't really grasp onto right now, although i will note that I think we've hit almost every FFXI figure that I know from a glance; we've got Prishe, the Shadow Lord, the Arch Angels and Fafnir, and XIV has already tapped Absolute Virtue and all the noteworthy Mamool Ja. Genuinely, I can only think of one alliance raid's worth of figures they haven't used yet, and they don't make sense together; I don't think you can string a plotline together out of Kam'lanaut/Eald'narche, Shantotto, Pandaemonium Warden, and Promathia, so things are going places I can't predict.

As for the rest, it's hard to know exactly where to place a lot of it, so I'll just handle it in sort of a pile.

• The notion of Alexandria holding a state funeral is even more interesting when you remember that they forget their dead Type-0 style. It's very plausible that this is the only funeral held in Alexandria for centuries, and the only time Alexandrians have ever had to truly grieve. That is REALLY compelling. I really like the voiceover child (I thought it was Gulool Ja but it doesn't make much sense) questioning if they're just sad forever now, that's a familiar reaction if you lost someone when you were young.
• 'Gulool Ja has a mom' confirmed, we can put the clone theory to bed.
• There's a fight of some kind on the big bridge beteen Yok and Xak Tural, I think in the role quests! Maybe it'll finally get a name; in retrospect it's still weird it doesn't have one!
• The role quest finale seems to be partially set in the Thanalan (I don't know how to feel about the fact I can pinpoint where in the Sagolii Desert those sand dunes are), which is a long time coming. Ul'Dah skipped both the EW and DT role quests.
• Koana's getting some kind of story in Shaaloani, so that could be interesting.
• Some people are having an uncomfortable reckoning with the fact Hildibrand's capable of being hot.
• Looks like the core of Eden Ultimate is basically 'Mitron possesses Ryne', which is an interesting hook, although like with the other Ultimates it's all in-universe fanfiction so I don't put much care into it.

I predict that the Pandaemonium follow-up, regardless of its actual contents, will result in another three years of Sundering discourse. Putting that thought aside, my money is on it being Claudien-focused and related to either the Heart of Sabik or the decidedly more enigmatic than pre-Pandae Ultima's origins. I have a distant hope that it involves taking full advantage of the now confirmed multiverse to go back in time and fill Themis and Erichthonios in on the full extent of the Final Days, but I've long made my peace with us not doing that and would rather look to the future (read: If we're seeing more Ancients, I'd rather it be a full expansion instead of a sidequest. Let them not feel like they've worn out their welcome.)


As for the MSQ, it calls to mind one of the flight quests in Heritage Found, wherein Shaloaci talks about remembering doing specific things with a person, but can't recall who that person was. I suspect that for the majority of Alexandrian and Yyaslunai folks, they're very used to "person-shaped holes" in their memories, and those who have spent their whole lives with regulators and only mingling with others who've done the same are unaccustomed to remembering their dead. That Sphene is such a beloved figure who has played a multigenerational role in everyone's lives has only made the pain of losing her all the more severe—the funeral for her, while much needed, is definitely a new experience for them.

I do have to wonder if this might lead to the public learning the reason Sphene is dead (ie: we killed her) and why she died (ie: The whole kit and kaboodle of Living Memory), or if that's going to remain under wraps for the foreseeable future. Likely the latter—I don't see that gun getting fired until 7.2, maybe 7.3 depending on how this expansion's patch cycle will play out. (Remember: Heavensward, Stormblood, and Shadowbringers mostly wrapped up their post-patch plots by the end of X.3, while A Realm Reborn and Endwalker both extended it all the way to X.5.)

There's also screenshots going around of an Auri Samurai in both Doma and Shaloani—I suspect this is also related to Koana's big scene. Though given the aforementioned Samurai, Koana's big scene, the funeral, and the dungeon for the patch iirc being Alexandrian in design, I can't help but wonder if this patch might be trying to tackle too many things at once.

I'm also really looking forward to the Role Quest conclusion and the new 24-Man raids. Never played FFXI, but Prishe looks cool and I'm always happy to see more Bakool Ja Ja.

EDIT: Also, I still haven't stepped into M4S, but I'm hoping to clear it so that I can try out the new Ultimate for once. I think something that might set this one apart from previous Ultimates is the framing device. As you might recall, the Eden raids used crystals produced by Eden itself containing warped memories of our battles as the justifying device. It's possible that FRU will use the same or a similar framing device—IIRC, Gaia mentions being interested in exploring the ruins of Amaurot in 6.55.

I've seen speculation about Ryne being a shard of Mitron popping up because of this. While I'm pretty positive about that development in particular*, I think it's pretty clear from what we've been shown in all versions of the trailer/teasers that Ryne is merely being possessed during this encounter.

*There are at least seven shards of Mitron, possibly a full fourteen, and there's no hard/soft confirmation of which reflection Mitron and Loghrif came from before they died. It's entirely possible, plausible even, that two shards of Mitron could exist simultaneously on the First. The same goes for Loghrif—there might be another person with the "same soul" as Gaia on the First, or her soul might be several times rejoined. She could quite possibly even be eight times rejoined, like the WoL. And as the very idea that Ryne is a reincarnation of Minfilia has been hard debunked by the Antecedent's appearance in the Aitiascope, it's adds back a distinct layer of identity troubles to her character that made her original struggle to define herself so interesting.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

There's also screenshots going around of an Auri Samurai in both Doma and Shaloani—I suspect this is also related to Koana's big scene. Though given the aforementioned Samurai, Koana's big scene, the funeral, and the dungeon for the patch iirc being Alexandrian in design, I can't help but wonder if this patch might be trying to tackle too many things at once.

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This was someone making some gposes of their character to look like they're in legit cutscenes. Fairly well-done, I'll grant them, I also briefly fell for it--they did really well at framing those pictures as if their character is just sorta there and at replicating the 'slightly flat' framing of a plain, non-voiced cutscene. But if you look back you'll see that they watermarked it as from the 69th PLL, because Funny Number. (for the record, this latest one was the 80th; the actual 69th PLL was the first one covering 6.1.)

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

This was someone making some gposes of their character to look like they're in legit cutscenes. Fairly well-done, I'll grant them, I also briefly fell for it--they did really well at framing those pictures as if their character is just sorta there and at replicating the 'slightly flat' framing of a plain, non-voiced cutscene. But if you look back you'll see that they watermarked it as from the 69th PLL, because Funny Number. (for the record, this latest one was the 80th; the actual 69th PLL was the first one covering 6.1.)

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... Huh. Wow. That's a pretty dedicated lark, lol.

The fact that Pandaemonium had a check-in-with-the-NPC window attached to it at the end made me paranoid as all hells that there was more to this down the line, especially with the totally casual reference to some "magnificent legends and tales from bygone civilizations" appearing to allude to the presences of Athena, auracite, and the High Seraph, and that Ultima "may be the cause of countless tragedies" throughout history. (That sounds like it may be more than a nod to Ivalice.)

I'm half-jokingly rooting for a build-up to "Ultima Prime", the real one, being the big bad of "Endwalker-2" (the second long-term catharsis). I would say bonus points if we end at Silvertear Lake but we've come back to and wandered away from it a couple times already.

I hesitate to speculate on much else. That, "Are we just going to be sad forever!?" stands out to me. Years ago that would have felt like a guaranteed plot hook - everyone would react to that situation differently, and then some faction would seize control of the Solution IX infrastructure and build up to a bigger exploration of the core themes with the souls and regulators and all that.

In Dawntrail, though - in the thru-lines of the base main scenario, at least - it doesn't feel like many actions had any indirect or unintended running consequences or pushed any problems to different recursive levels to manifest in other ways (...yet?). The drama did not have very many moving parts. So it's also possible that line will be resolved with a few minutes of exposition about what pain and loss can teach us about ourselves and each other and how it can be used constructively and shouldn't be denied and rejected. Really cap off that "rapid-fire review of past themes" vibe 7.00 had, lol.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

[*]'Gulool Ja has a mom' confirmed, we can put the clone theory to bed.

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I wrote in a MSQ venting discussion Basicly a rewrite of Zoraal ja Story were i imagined that the only way,
that he ends up as such an angry one dimensional character with no development
with no connection to his child after 30 years in alexander,
would be that his wife died shortly after Golul ja birth and the soul thing mindwiped Zoral ja back to his angry former self.

an interresting way to give a villian more depth (and showing how the mindwipe can backfire), but... if this is what they going for.... thats... waaaaaaaaaaaay to late, like were was that in the 7.0 msq?

My guess on the Pandæmonium follow-up is that it might tie into Eden Ultimate with some extra information regarding Mitron and Loghrif.

Though, as people have noted here, we did already have hanging threads left behind after the raid story concluded, so it was expected that we'd get more on it sooner or later – though this is certainly "sooner".

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Don't even get me started on the XI cause atm it just looks like a mishmash of a few places that for some reason we will be having Bakool Ja Ja tag along for. Yes I know he is part of the landsguard now, but unless this involves a certain gate he's meant to be help guarding I don't see why we would be having him just watch us fight Prishe, Fafnir, the Ark Angels and the Shadowlord without him involving himself in the fights.

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There would need to be a reason for him to not be fighting, no matter what the scenario involves. Is he keeping watch for something? Casting a ward? Engaged in fighting smaller enemies off to the side?

Investigating weird stuff happening in Yak T'el is probably a Landsguard task in general, and despite the game putting characters in static places, Bakool probably isn't guarding the cenote 24/7. He might accompany us while it's someone else's guard shift.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

There's a fight of some kind on the big bridge beteen Yok and Xak Tural, I think in the role quests! Maybe it'll finally get a name; in retrospect it's still weird it doesn't have one!

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The bridge seems to be called Zorgor the Boundless, though there's some ambiguity whether it's the name of the bridge or the chasm. Perhaps it's both, or perhaps there was some ambiguity among the writers and they took it in different directions.

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Originally Posted by Malganis_L

I wrote in a MSQ venting discussion Basicly a rewrite of Zoraal ja Story were i imagined that the only way,
that he ends up as such an angry one dimensional character with no development
with no connection to his child after 30 years in alexander,
would be that his wife died shortly after Golul ja birth and the soul thing mindwiped Zoral ja back to his angry former self.

an interresting way to give a villian more depth (and showing how the mindwipe can backfire), but... if this is what they going for.... thats... waaaaaaaaaaaay to late, like were was that in the 7.0 msq?

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Personally, I think (and have argued before) that Zoraal Ja is a perfectly serviceable, even good character, who simply isn't constructed and presented in a way the game typically does. We're used to characters being open with their thoughts and emotions and infodumping to hell and back, but here's Zoraal Ja being deliberately written as very quiet and closed-off person who just doesn't give us the window into him that we're used to. He denies us the easy read we expect; that's not him being a bad character, that's him being a different one. Don't score the baseball player poorly because you wanted to watch tennis.

My thought is that this story's not gonna be a 'Zoraal Ja story' per se, but more a Gulool Ja story; Zoraal's story didn't need this backdrop and history no matter how much you wanted to hear it, because his current presence and motivations were more important than his sad past or potential reasonings (especially if he can't even remember them). But for Gulool Ja, the tragic and ugly reasons he's been left an orphan in a society that's somehow expecting him to lead one day is very important!

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The bridge seems to be called Zorgor the Boundless, though there's some ambiguity whether it's the name of the bridge or the chasm. Perhaps it's both, or perhaps there was some ambiguity among the writers and they took it in different directions.

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Yeah, that's a very quiet answer, but it's quiet to the point where it's not even explicit; I got the idea that it's the chasm (or possibly the mythical monster inside the chasm, which the chasm might itself be named after), but it's really unclear.

I'd just like to call it something other than 'the big bridge'! Unless Gilgamesh fights on it, then it's allowed the name.

If the baseball player is at Wimbledon surrounded by other tennis players there’s only so much generosity.
The intermission in his fight also seems to be pushing him into the tennis player camp enough that it felt jarring.
I’m interested to see what they do, but can’t imagine I’ll be doing the msq before alliance or even pandaemonium wrap up.

It would be really funny if ryne was the mitron shart from the first though, even just in a “what if” capacity.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

My guess on the Pandæmonium follow-up is that it might tie into Eden Ultimate with some extra information regarding Mitron and Loghrif.

Though, as people have noted here, we did already have hanging threads left behind after the raid story concluded, so it was expected that we'd get more on it sooner or later – though this is certainly "sooner".




There would need to be a reason for him to not be fighting, no matter what the scenario involves. Is he keeping watch for something? Casting a ward? Engaged in fighting smaller enemies off to the side?

Investigating weird stuff happening in Yak T'el is probably a Landsguard task in general, and despite the game putting characters in static places, Bakool probably isn't guarding the cenote 24/7. He might accompany us while it's someone else's guard shift.

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Oh I know he's not meant to be static, but that he comes off as a person of action and not someone who would just stand by and watch. Which looks to be what he is going to be doing once inside the raid. Outside of it and in cutscenes I'm sure he will be part of the action. So for me why is he tagging along on the inside to just (far as we know) watch the scary adventure and friends beat stuff up.

I know it probably isn't going to be this, but what if the female mamool ja is actually Zoraal ja's mom? We don't know who his mom was either.

I'm starting to wonder if Zoraal ja actually delt with a Tural Vidraal and that was just a cover story for whatever Turali version of Aulus mal Asina and Zoraal ja were up to at Yuweyawata Field Station.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

1st who had a Pandeamonium cap quest on their bingo card? What could we even be doing that involves npcs from that raid?

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Do you have a link? This is the first I've heard about it.

And what would the purpose of that even be, anyway? "Now they're really, really, really dead"? More reassurances from beyond the grave they're totally cool with us, guys? Does anyone actually want to go back through this again?

If it boils down to being predominantly HoS lore... that's good for the lore fanatics, I guess, but it's a strange thing to go so far as to include considering where their priorities seem to be lying lately. I struggle seeing the point of it, unless...

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I'm half-jokingly rooting for a build-up to "Ultima Prime", the real one, being the big bad of "Endwalker-2" (the second long-term catharsis). I would say bonus points if we end at Silvertear Lake

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I joked I had "aliens did it" marked down on my bingo card when Emet-Selch started talking about corruption and a sound from within the planet back during Shadowbringers, and that I'd launch Yoshi-P if we wound up getting Jenova Mark II as our big bad for the main plot. After the Dynamis reveal, though, I don't think I'd actually mind that possibility anymore, so I wouldn't hate it! That whole arc always had a sort of "masterminded by the real villain" vibe anyway that never really panned out.

(What were the main theories for Silvertear, anyway?)

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So it's also possible that line will be resolved with a few minutes of exposition about what pain and loss can teach us about ourselves and each other and how it can be used constructively and shouldn't be denied and rejected.

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Well, it has been a whole... five minutes since they last reminded us about that, so it's about time!

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Do you have a link? This is the first I've heard about it.

And what would the purpose of that even be, anyway? "Now they're really, really, really dead"? More reassurances from beyond the grave they're totally cool with us, guys? Does anyone actually want to go back through this again?

If it boils down to being predominantly HoS lore... that's good for the lore fanatics, I guess, but it's a strange thing to go so far as to include considering where their priorities seem to be lying lately. I struggle seeing the point of it, unless...

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Nothing from a slide and we won't have an official transcript til some time later but this is from the discord that does the fan translations. "Yoshida: "Since the previous raid, Pandemonium, story is concluded, we're adding an extra side quest there. Felt wrong to do that in 7.0 so we're doing it now"

If you want to know where during the Live Letter they mention Pandeamonium it's at the 1:07:03 mark. Right before they go into more depth about the information about the Alliance Raid.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Nothing from a slide and we won't have an official transcript til some time later but this is from the discord that does the fan translations. "Yoshida: "Since the previous raid, Pandemonium, story is concluded, we're adding an extra side quest there. Felt wrong to do that in 7.0 so we're doing it now"

If you want to know where during the Live Letter they mention Pandeamonium it's at the 1:07:03 mark. Right before they go into more depth about the information about the Alliance Raid.

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Thanks! I had a glance at that part in the live letter. What he said was actually kind of interesting - it's not going to be a long quest, and it's got kind of an "after story" vibe that didn't fit the atmosphere of 7.0 (or that's how I took it, I defer to the experts), so it seems like it's a kind of stand alone episode relating to the story of the raid quests? In which case, I sense a lore dump in the offing... I mean, I'll take it, especially over another farewell encore from the original three - I'm just surprised they're bothering.

So similar to Omega: Beyond the Rift maybe?

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Originally Posted by melbye

So similar to Omega: Beyond the Rift maybe?

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At a glance, it seems so, but maybe a little less reflective and more focused on historical events that led to the present (??? past) story. But that's purely my guess, mainly because I don't know just how much more brooding can be done on the Ancient storyline, lol.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I joked I had "aliens did it" marked down on my bingo card when Emet-Selch started talking about corruption and a sound from within the planet back during Shadowbringers, and that I'd launch Yoshi-P if we wound up getting Jenova Mark II as our big bad for the main plot. After the Dynamis reveal, though, I don't think I'd actually mind that possibility anymore, so I wouldn't hate it! That whole arc always had a sort of "masterminded by the real villain" vibe anyway that never really panned out.

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I mean if the team wants to add Eldritch deities from the whole of FF history like Jenova, Sin, Bhunivelze or "the Creator" over into 14, than the Heart of Sabik and Ultima Seraph are the most stable narrative bridge to do that.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

At a glance, it seems so, but maybe a little less reflective and more focused on historical events that led to the present (??? past) story. But that's purely my guess, mainly because I don't know just how much more brooding can be done on the Ancient storyline, lol.

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If needed the Ancients can be reintroduced with Grahas Black Rose timeline crashing into the current one lol

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

• Some people are having an uncomfortable reckoning with the fact Hildibrand's capable of being hot.

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They shouldn't be, because that's almost certainly not our Hildibrand in the trailer lol. He's using a completely different Highlander face (although with the goatee from Hildibrand's). A shard of his, perhaps, but who can really guess with these quests.

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Originally Posted by Malganis_L

snip

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I don't disagree! I was just never a fan of the alien concept in FFXIV's setting, but... well, suffice to say, things change, lol. And in such a case it would be quite sneaky too, since depending on where they take it, it's literally the perfect open door to hook back into any given storyline, including that of the Ancients, without too much of bending the plot back on itself.

...but all of this is said with an enormous pinch of salt. The writers seem to be inherently at odds with everything I'd consider a logical writing decision lately and vice versa (with the exception of Athena and Lahabrea's story), and I wouldn't be surprised if after all this we do get another broody requiem on overcoming loss and grief, but optimism and all that!

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Thanks! I had a glance at that part in the live letter. What he said was actually kind of interesting - it's not going to be a long quest, and it's got kind of an "after story" vibe that didn't fit the atmosphere of 7.0 (or that's how I took it, I defer to the experts), so it seems like it's a kind of stand alone episode relating to the story of the raid quests? In which case, I sense a lore dump in the offing... I mean, I'll take it, especially over another farewell encore from the original three - I'm just surprised they're bothering.

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Np. The voiced part with Elidibus felt like a good send off so as everyone else has said it feels odd to be getting more. Not that anyone here would say no to more lore. Even if it is something like the Omega: Beyond the rift I'm just not sure what we would be looking at and through what lense.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Yeah, that's a very quiet answer, but it's quiet to the point where it's not even explicit; I got the idea that it's the chasm (or possibly the mythical monster inside the chasm, which the chasm might itself be named after), but it's really unclear.

I'd just like to call it something other than 'the big bridge'! Unless Gilgamesh fights on it, then it's allowed the name.

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I'm not sure what you mean by it being a quiet answer - it's referred to a few times. I can't give all of them without going back over the quest scripts, but I'm looking at the expedition logs in Tender Valley now and the one at X:12, Y:11 (canyon town, top of the first waterslide) refers to the Yok Huy as "those who built Zorgor the Boundless".

There's certainly no reason to assume it refers to a mythical being - the name does sound more like something you'd give to a being, but it seems to be a standard format for Yok Huy place-names, both built and natural. The temple where Valigarmanda was imprisoned is called Karryorzar the Gracious; the western lake is Karvarhur the First.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I'm not sure what you mean by it being a quiet answer - it's referred to a few times. I can't give all of them without going back over the quest scripts, but I'm looking at the expedition logs in Tender Valley now and the one at X:12, Y:11 (canyon town, top of the first waterslide) refers to the Yok Huy as "those who built Zorgor the Boundless".

There's certainly no reason to assume it refers to a mythical being - the name does sound more like something you'd give to a being, but it seems to be a standard format for Yok Huy place-names, both built and natural. The temple where Valigarmanda was imprisoned is called Karryorzar the Gracious; the western lake is Karvarhur the First.

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Oh, that's my bad from being from a different source: understandably from me, my source was fish lore, the Zorgor Vulture's description mentions it.

The Shaaloani fishing holes are called 'Westbound Zorgor' and 'Eastbound Zorgor', which sounds like it's probably talking about the canyon, but isn't definitive.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Oh, that's my bad from being from a different source: understandably from me, my source was fish lore, the Zorgor Vulture's description mentions it.

The Shaaloani fishing holes are called 'Westbound Zorgor' and 'Eastbound Zorgor', which sounds like it's probably talking about the canyon, but isn't definitive.

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That's what I meant by it being ambiguous – the name seems to be used for the bridge when quests talk about it, but the chasm when the fishing log talks about it. (I did mean to say that in my previous post but forgot.)

Zogor, The Boundless is the big bridge, its actually marked on the map of Tuliyollal