I've been playing pretty steady since 2018 and my drk is the most geared job I have but I prefer to play rpr or sge...the issue is in struggling picking what to main and then I just don't care. From 90 to 100 the job changes were as safe as you could get and it feels like I'm just doing the same old shit as always. Same routine same daily weekly routine it's a very robotic game...why am I paying a sub for robotic game that doesn't even give me the option to exchange tome gear like queaztalli? It's demoralizing you have to grind all the tome gear again for moths...ridiculous
Lazy devs and fatigue
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10-20-2024, 06:09 AMRinaBLazy devs and fatigue
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10-20-2024, 07:05 AMRaideDuku
You're right. You probably shouldn't play this game. Or this genre, really. MMOs are designed to have you play as much as possible. If you're not willing to make that commitment, it isn't the genre for you. I remember back in the EQ days taking literal months to equip even just your main class, let alone if you played alts. If they just handed you gear in the matter of days for every class, you wouldn't keep playing, which means you'll stop paying your sub and/or paying stuff from the RMT store. Best to play single player RPGs that have a definite end so you don't get into the trap of playing something that makes you miserable forever just because of sunken cost fallacy.
As far as 90-100 moves go...that's just a problem with MMOs as they age. After all, there are only so many ways you can hit, get hit, and heal hits before you get to the point where all you can really do is Make Number Bigger. Once a MMO gets to that point, it gets super hard for them to keep abilities interesting. Even venerable MMOs have this problem. Even the vaunted WoW hasn't figured it out (look how long they've relied on "borrowed power" mechanics, and the new "Hero Talents" seem to have been received with a resounding "meh") Again, probably best to just play an RPG that ends, as they generally...well...end, before this gets to be too much of a problem. -
10-20-2024, 07:17 AMJeeqbit
To be fair, the tome grind is a pretty standard sort of thing in the MMO genre. Grinding something to exchange for gear.
Now maybe it doesn't work so well in a time where jobs have been simplified and people need to play multiple jobs to not feel bored, they just didn't update the tomestone system to reflect that yet.
So maybe they can due to feedback like this. I don't think it's that they're lazy so much as they just left a standard thing of MMOs as it is.
(But anyway, my speculation is they still intend to make jobs more unique in 8.0 because they keep mentioning this and since they have been exploring ideas such as Talents, Skill Trees and Ability Points, they could help solve a lot of things with such featues by allowing people to customize how "complex" or "busy" their job is). -
10-20-2024, 07:46 AMTheMightyMollusk
Try playing red mage, it's been almost the exact same since it was introduced in Stormblood. We just get a new finisher tacked on to our finishers.
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10-20-2024, 07:56 AMcaffe_macchiatoI mean, what did you think this was, WoW? Come on, this is Final Fantasy XIV published by Square Enix. You can't expect much. Most people, as visible elsewhere in this thread, don't want more. They don't want a game that respects their time, mainly because treating FFXIV as a game instead of an identity is too much work. Don't ever bother mentioning to them that delves offer free gear for just 15 minutes of your time.Quote:
Originally Posted by RinaB
(By the way, as Square Enix recently told me in a dream, saying the word "shit" results in your account being banned. Unlike cheating and hacking, they take that seriously.)
"At least it's better than EverQuest" is my new favorite defense. Last I recall, though, Yoshida was telling people that FFXIV "respected your time". Obviously, we know that Yoshida has a loose relationship with the truth, but I thought people at least believed in his ideas?Quote:
Originally Posted by RaideDuku
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10-20-2024, 08:05 AMRaideDukuFor an MMO? It absolutely respects your time. Let me make my point clearer. If you don't want a time commitment, don't play a MMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato
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10-20-2024, 08:46 AMVeyaAkemi
Yeah reading the post I don't know what you expect OP, gear treadmill is a standard thing in the genre save for a few examples like Guild Wars 2, which also doesn't do level cap increases, save for those few, anything else will have this issue, it's just the nature of the beast, your gear is always going to become outdated and you will always need to grind for new stuff, the only difference is how difficult it is to grind for those new things.
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10-20-2024, 09:57 AMAwful
One of the big issues with having alt jobs is that once you're done raid for the week and you either win gear or not then you have tomes, the problem is some jobs just require so much and tome pants are a huge issue. Why are they 825 tomes? Same with Tome chest, you're time gated and just can't gear up jobs fast enough I know it's been an issue for years but with nothing to do but raid or ultis this xpac you can barely upgrade any jobs because we're capped at a measly 450/450 for the week.
Would it be so wrong to make them at 900 when a .1 patch drops? It's just baffling that in this endless sea of nothingness of an xpac I can't gear up jobs fast enough, that's not even including how many twines and shines you need to upgrade said gear, it's a 1-2 punch that's been an issue for so long and i'm just tired of it. I know the weekly alliance raid will help sort of for the weekly turn in for shine/twine, with hunts being the other avenue but I'm really wishing we had more access to 720-725 gear for alts. -
10-20-2024, 11:48 AMKernCadfan
I wish we had other ways to better our character in general... but failing that, yet a little bit more generosity with tomes would be nice. It doesn't need to be a huge amount more, but a few more here and there to help pad out the grind for alt jobs would be lovely. That's one of the reasons I haven't bothered with my alts at all. I'm still working on my 720 gear, but I've been playing less and less because i'm just not a huge fan of the experts on offer this time around...
Really wish we had more than two of them, imo...
I can't wait for the alliance raid, I'm going to play the heck out of that. -
10-20-2024, 11:43 PMLotteYanson
Do something else in the game?
Eureka or Bozja
Deepdungeon
Crafting / Gathering
Raiding
Theres so much stuff to do, yet you didnt touch it but complain that you have to do allways the same.
The problem is your attitude... -
10-21-2024, 01:42 AMDante131again the old stuff ? yeah why wanting actual mattering content ... Do OlD sTuFf. Just for the deepdungeon eureka bozja thing. crafting and gathering is maybe a side job bt not fun for many people. Not everbody want to raid and even if they decide to it they wait 3 hours in pf for a grp not filling. the problem is not the attitude the problem is people defend SE in every thread with old stuff. Like the one guy posted earlyer. WoW introduced delves with the launch which is side content and helpfull for casuals, or rerunning events which helps you get something from the vault. GW2 gives you so much overworld exploration which just make you attach to the environment. What have 14 ? 6 months patch cycle ( close to it i know its not 6 ) with some raid stuff joining and somewhere in the end of .3 one exploration zone ? ofc people will be bored. Old content is boring alone aswell. dont get me wrong i love this game its so freaky important to me. I met my wife here and thats why i want it to be better then WoW GW2 or anything else ...Quote:
Originally Posted by LotteYanson
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10-21-2024, 04:37 AMJojoyaPeople get bored because they're trying to use one game to fill all their gaming desires instead of playing multiple games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante131
Of course they're going to get bored if they only play the same game over and over to the point they've done all the content they're interested in doing.
I've been taking a break from FFXIV the last 10 days myself and picked up WoW again for the first time in almost 7 years. I'm already finding myself bored, frustrated and disappointed in it in turns, though to be fair I'm playing through Dragonflight content because I haven't purchased the new expansion yet. Will the new expansion be an improvement once I get around to it? Hopefully. Will I decide it's better than FFXIV. I doubt it.
Both games have their strengths and weaknesses but FFXIV still shines brighter for me. But the only way you're going to be able to tell for yourself is to give those other games a try. -
10-21-2024, 05:04 AMBunnyQueenI think the problem is the fact the game got more and more imbalanced role wise over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by RinaB
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10-21-2024, 11:24 AMAth192I think the problem is there's nothing interesting to do in this game anymore if you've been playing for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyQueen
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10-21-2024, 11:39 AMcaffe_macchiatoYOU DID IT! YOU SAID THE THING! Everything about FFXIV eventually goes back to WoW. The whole reason why this game exists is to fight WoW. FFXIV doesn't have a purpose by itself, it can only be validated when compared to WoW. Otherwise, far less people would actually play it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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10-21-2024, 01:59 PMRaideDukuDo you have anything interesting to say, or are you so bitter that you just pay your $15 a month to insult people on the forums?Quote:
Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato
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10-21-2024, 05:30 PMVoidmageThat’s what is often said and probably even a good and healthy approach normally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
The problem is that FF14 is not even full enough to be a side game anymore.
What brings an expansion new?
MSQ
Dungeons
Side quests
EX
Savage
If you are not a raider tough luck there.
Crafting is just a side thing and tbh not very fun for many.
Fates are just the same without even new mechanics.
And leveling all jobs is not content it’s a chore.
So really, you could play five games at the side and FF14 would still be barebones nowadays.
People often use the reasoning of “you can leave and just jump in without falling behind”.
Cool but that is not a MMO but a game made for those who don’t want to play it.
The excuse that people just play too much FF14 really needs to stop.
People ask for more content. Something EVERYONE should be glad about.
I really don’t see a reason why there can’t be a new gold saucer mini game and new rewards there at the start of an expansion.
I don’t see why each expansion can’t have a new mechanic in the over
world like deep diving in stormblood or flying in HW.
I don’t understand why a new expansion can’t use old things like island sanctuary and update them automatically with a new goal to archive. -
10-21-2024, 05:59 PMSylnYou're beating a dead horse op, I'm gonna put things into perspective for you so that you make the obvious choice ! : 12 bucks a month, one bite of content every 4 months so 48 bucks for around 8 hours of more or less fun content.Quote:
Originally Posted by RinaB
There are plenty of awesome games you can buy for that price and after reading your post, i can easily assume that like me, you'll have more fun for a lot more than 8 hours with one of those :D -
10-22-2024, 12:38 AMDante131totally agree and disagree at the same time. I do agree people should try the other ones both wow and gw2 are good games. But in the same time an mmo was always designed too hook players into the game. So the desire for spending all the time in the game is crown in my opinion. My point was and i repeat myself like an old disk was 14 have nothing interesting too offer after the story and peoples only defense for it is go do old stuff. I really like the style ( looks ) of 14 more then the other ones but for know its the only thing 14 is doing better then the other 2. Sure WoW have more budget and probably a bigger team but i cant hear this excuse anymore after so many years. We can stay still or we can evolve and all i would like is seeing 14 evolve and being better then the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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10-22-2024, 03:01 AMJeeqbitThat's where FFXIV seems to be different. They got a lot of feedback in 1.0 and changed the game drastically based on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante131
The result was a game that respected people's time a lot more than others - such as teleporting everywhere an unlimited amount instead of traveling, only killing 3 enemies for quests, splitting bosses into different instances so you don't feel trapped in a raid for hours, getting rid of pointless time-wasting trash mobs in raids, resetting cooldowns on each wipe, etc. They noticed only spending 12-20 minutes in a dungeon was working well for people and kept it up.
The natural result of that is a game that doesn't require as much time investment as MMORPGs used to.
Arguably, they have sorta been using the same philosophy that games with DLC use and making it more like those, so you play through them then you're done. To a degree. Because there are still events, patches, and ways to play the game all day (such as RP, social content with your FC/CWLS, mount collecting or raid progging).
Right now, I just wish they'd voice things like seasonal events or make them more interesting than just a little sob story where we feel sorry for someone and help them overcome their confidence/sadness dilemmas. -
10-22-2024, 03:38 AMDante131so whats the point ? its seems you just read want you want too read man. I know you will defend everything they do but cmon. people litterally asking for activity...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
you know what ill try it one more time. you say the game respects the time of its players ? Where? yes you can teleport whenever you want thats it. Dungeons are the same every time, raids without trash mobs are just giant bosses with repeating mechanics. and often not even tankable. I wont complain about the raids they are normally fine. People do complain about dungeon design for so long now... 2 pulls w2w nothing happens is boring even if its fast. Class design dont get me started...
For the next point people want spending time in the game that was my whole point ... its like thread number 12 i read where people begging for more stuff cause they want too play the game...
RP, social content with your FC/CWLS is community driven content ... mount collecting negates your respect players time argument... Spamm 300 runs for a Mount on release or wait 1 year and buy it then. Thats respecting time i guess. Raid progging is funny because but be real how many people are in raids and how many are casuals?
For the last part we finally meat. I would like to have more good events with nice stuff as reward but not just seasonal i mean it in general. Moogle stones are cool but the rewards are mostly weird like its faster getting the stuff unsync the dutys. -
10-22-2024, 04:26 AMSinstrel
The game has tons and tons of content... but the gameplay loop is absurdly boring. Devs refuse to innovate and try anything new that diverges from the current 1-2-3-4 gameplay loop we've had for 10 years.
One frustrating thing is that there are some pretty good ideas they've had but were all executed in some of the most bland ways the fans of the game could have never predicted. The latest example being "Chaotic raids" where everyone was pumped to do something like a Crystal Tower version of CLL, Dalradia, Baldesion Arsenal with an accompanying new gameplay loop such as how Eureka/Bozja actions were introduced to give the players customization and the ability to break free of the standard 1-2-3-4 but instead were blind sided by receiving a 24-man single boss trial that apparently took them 2+ years to develop.
Massive of waste of time, resources and excitement. I say this as someone who pre-ordered Dawntrail and haven't even bothered to play through it after logging on and realizing I'd be doing the exact same thing as post-Endwalker for another 2+ years. -
10-22-2024, 04:29 AMJojoyaIt only goes back to WoW for those who have played WoW. It's natural for people to compare things they have experienced. Those who never played WoW have no experience to compare to.Quote:
Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato
I played WoW for 7 years before I tried FFXIV for the first time. I continued to play WoW for about 4 years, switching back and forth between it and FFXIV before I threw in the towel on WoW and its borrowed power systems, forced grinds and ARPG style loot RNG.
This game doesn't exist to fight WoW. It exists to offer its own gaming experience. For some, that overall experience is better than what they get from WoW. For others, WoW is better. For yet a third group, both games are fun in their own way and they play both.
Strangely, by saying that fewer people would be playing FFXIV if it weren't for WoW you're handing FFXIV a complement. A subpar game wouldn't be able to draw players away from the legendary King of the Mountain and hold their attention for years.
My opinion is that is an extremely unhealthy thing to want, both for the gaming industry and for personal health (you're calling addiction a good thing).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante131
Part of what makes this game different is that YoshiP was a gamer long before he ended up on FFXIV or even his pre-FFXIV days on Dragon Quest. He understands the value of having the freedom to play and experience multiple games. He's passed that freedom along to the player base with the FFXIV design. We're not overloaded with grinds to accomplish each week (or indefinitely) so we can play other games concurrently with FFXIV. If we want to take a full break from FFXIV for a few months, it's easy to play catch up once we return.
Since I know at this point someone is going to go "housing", I'm going to call it what it is - a personal problem. It's up to the player to decide what is more valuable to them - the house or their subscription money. -
10-22-2024, 04:41 AMDante131hmm might have used the wrong words mb. But on the other hand yes might be true. i mean many players are sitting more then 5 hours behind the pc so good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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10-22-2024, 04:55 AMKernCadfan
To me, it shouldn't go back to WoW at all, but rather the other game SE actually worked on, being FFXI. We know they understand how to make a compelling game. They've done it several times over, twice over when it comes to final fantasy mmorpgs one is 10 years old, the other is over 20 years old. That should tell us something. A very clear and pointed something. What they lack in recent years is an ability to find that easy medium between hard core "no-life" grinds like what are sometimes in FFXI back before rmt destroyed it, and super sparing drip-feed content, such as FFXIV in this day and age. There needs to be a medium level that they can tap into to reach the playerbase.
MMORPG's need some kinds of grinds (not only glamours and mounts and stuff, and not only tome stones for gear, either) to make you feel a sense of progression as a player, yet that grind can't be so overblown that it becomes ridiculous... the problem is a lot of people just say to go back and do old content, but if we wanted that content then, we would have DONE it then... and that's the key thing a lot of people overlook.
I don't think the devs are lazy, far from it. I think they just don't want to commit to any clear playerbase, and try to appease everyone. FFXI was certainly for the hard core, community focused grindy-type players when it came to nearly everything. FFXIV is much more casual, but sometimes when it comes to drip-feed content, too casual.
The kind of grindy content I would like is the kind I can take with me as progression... not just a glam or an emote, or a mount, but something that allows me to progress that I do get to keep. Look at merits, FFXI, for an example of that... now to be clear i'm not suggesting merits per say, but just a system that allows me to feel like I'm actually bettering the character beyond just what's "on content" for now.... something that can and shall stand the test of time...
That's what the game needs more of, I'd say... just tests of time... something that's long lasting and doesn't phase out as drastically as our current systems. -
10-22-2024, 05:40 AMJeeqbitThe point is to state that SE intentionally makes it like DLC games where it's content, you do it, then it's done. That isn't particularly defending it; it's just stating it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante131
So does everyone. That's why echo chambers exist. I'm a bit of an odd one because I expose myself to this relative echo chamber of negativity despite my positive outlook on things.Quote:
its seems you just read want you want too read man.
I only defend against impoliteness/rudeness (ie. calling hard-working developers "lazy") and misinformation ie. game is dying when statistics don't agree etc. If the suggestion is well put together and considered then I usually just upvote it if it's something reasonable, or engage with it.Quote:
I know you will defend everything they do but cmon.
That isn't it. I already provided plenty of examples and there are many more you can find if you search the internet, since lots of content creators have covered how it respects your time. I didn't mean it was perfect or that there aren't things that waste time, just that MMOs of old wasted far more of it. Now you could say that's a good thing because it's stuff to do, but if it's destroying a person's life and ability to look after themselves due to the time consumption, it's not so good.Quote:
you say the game respects the time of its players ? Where? yes you can teleport whenever you want thats it.
I'm not saying dungeons can't be better. It would be great if they were better! For example, I believe at the bare minimum you should have to use Reprisal or wipe to raid-wides and that you should have to mit tank busters or get killed. If they had random mechanics, that would probably be great too.Quote:
Dungeons are the same every time, raids without trash mobs are just giant bosses with repeating mechanics
But, if I look at this objectively, SE has been attempting a different type of dungeon to address this: variant and criterion. Variant is meant to address the feedback of dungeons being the same route always, while criterion is meant to address the feedback of them not being challenging enough.
Now obviously there have been issues with variant and criterion. Variant doesn't end up being in a roulette that people are doing to cap tomestones making these efforts irrelevant, and criterion is regarded as being more like savage as opposed to a "more engaging casual dungeon". But they have technically been trying to address some of the feedback regarding dungeons via this so you could argue it's a start.
I think their hesitation to make MSQ dungeons that challenging is all the story-only players. It's just true that there are a lot of people that come and do the story then quit for 2 years. Hardcore players might not like this but it's just kinda true, and they need to be able to progress the story. That said, I do wish for them to feel that the bosses were challenging or made them sweat a bit, which has often not been the case for trials (especially old ones where our item level wrecks it and raid-wides do 2% damage).
They could do them different I suppose, like making us ride mounts similar to Praetorium to chase someone, free prisoners like in Wanderer's Palace HM, fall from the sky like in Byakko, use the G-Warrior, or randomizing mechanics. Do I particularly need this from dungeons? No, but I'm not opposed to it.Quote:
People do complain about dungeon design for so long now... 2 pulls w2w nothing happens is boring even if its fast.
I think the main issue with dungeons really is just that Expert roulette lost the variety it once had, which was already limited as it was, due to the discontinuation of sidequest dungeons and longer patch cycles, so you become such an "expert" at the latest dungeons that it makes you physically sick to do them and it begins to feel like torture capping tomestones that way.
The other issue is with old content and how poorly it syncs so that the mechanics don't even matter, removing the need to think.
Only thread number 12? People been complaining about that for the whole game's life. I remember seeing people wanting more in Heavensward even, which is often made out to be some perfect time in the game's history but really a lot of the standards were set then that remain true today. What saved Heavensward from this was probably just the fact a lot of people hadn't done very basic stuff in the game yet (like leveling all jobs), whereas long-time veterans have got around to that over the course of 11 years, especially after that Amaro mount came out.Quote:
For the next point people want spending time in the game that was my whole point ... its like thread number 12 i read where people begging for more stuff cause they want too play the game...
Making social, community-driven content possible in an MMORPG is kinda valid though, and often been a big part of MMORPGs that have developed features to support it.Quote:
RP, social content with your FC/CWLS is community driven content ...
Well yes? But the point is that mount collecting is optional, yet provides a motivation to spend more time playing if you want a reason to spend more time playing.Quote:
mount collecting negates your respect players time argument...