Sage with bad tanks

Hi everyone im pretty new to sage, I'm 81 right now but I have a very reoccurring issue I'm being faced with. I am getting a lot of tanks who either have no idea how their mitigators work and how/when to use them or simply just don't use them at all yet still wall to wall...as a sage I'm stumped as to how to deal with this properly. I'll cast Haima, Taurochole and then I'm basically stuck casting spamming E.Diagnosis hoping the dps is good. I don't want to blow aoe shield abilities like Holos when my tank is the only one getting his face punched in. The issue with Soteria is that it just doest heal enough for how much damage they're taking. I'm starting to think the solution is either going back to my main role as a 100 DRK or making a macro that tells them to please use mits. Problem is they'll argue and say "I am" as they pop a TBN at the end of the pull when there's 1 mob at 30%.....it's frustrating because it's happening so often.

I forgot to mention this includes exhausting Rhizomata and Druochole. I just don't know what to do in these situations. I really like sage and almost want to main it but I get discouraged because this happens so often and of course they blame me when it's painfully obvious it's some bone head idiot who either bought or never read tool tips. Maybe I'm missing something? Any help would be good because I don't want 30 min penalties lol. Yes i use Zoe as well.

I think the best piece of advice I've ever seen for a SCH or SGE in a Duty Finder dungeon is the following: Feel free to use your AoE actions to keep the tank alive.

On the one-hand, it feels counterintuitive. On the other-hand, use whatever you have access to.

In practice, for SGE, this might translate to: Use Panhaima. Use Physis.

This guide made healing much easier as Sage:

A few key points.

Always have Kardia on the tank.
Always use physis/krasia on tank before using mitigation. (alternate Taurochole and Karochole as they will overwrite each other and this is a waste)
Keep sheilds up on tank while pulling. You can hear the beep or ding when the shield has been broken indicating youve receive a stack of addergall, then reapply shield.
Dont forget about Soteria and Zoe to buff your shields.

Theres a lot more, I highly recommend watching this through its entirety.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPjdwUgwncI&t=142s

Hmmm....but those have such long cooldowns....sigh...i know what you're saying though...I feel there needs to be more healing on Kardion tbh and bigger shields in general. I'm not saying the job should be designed around idiot tanks I'm just saying it really lacks single target burst healing without using a gem. Which really sucks.

I watched the vid...that's what I was afraid of...I just wish I didn't have to burn AoEs to keep a tank up... and before the "sage may not be for you" comment, I guess I'm being too conservative with my CDs and not popping them because of the CD times....I just wish sage had more single target options instead of aoes...I get it now but it seems like a waste.

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Originally Posted by RinaB

I forgot to mention this includes exhausting Rhizomata and Druochole. I just don't know what to do in these situations. I really like sage and almost want to main it but I get discouraged because this happens so often and of course they blame me when it's painfully obvious it's some bone head idiot who either bought or never read tool tips. Maybe I'm missing something? Any help would be good because I don't want 30 min penalties lol. Yes i use Zoe as well.

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Wall to wall pull past Lv 78~85:

{1}. Physis II + Kerachole -> Haima (towards the end of Physis II autophysis buff) + Druocholes as needed + Taurochole when Kerachole buff falls off and you can use an extra 600~700 potency heal

{2}. Physis II + Kerachole -> Holos + Panhaima + Soteria + Druocholes as needed + Taurochole when Kerachole buff falls off and you can use an extra 600~700 potency heal.

Alternate Kerachole and Taurochole as necessary. Alternate Haima and Panhaima between each wall to wall pull. Each wall to wall pull takes ~60s between finishing an pull and pulling until the next wall to wall, so Physis II and kerachole should be back up. If Physis II isn't back up, adjust with other heals.

This gives you 2 regens + 10% mitigation + stacking shields for kardia hits to do its thing.

At Lv 86, you get Krasis.

Simply put, it becomes Krasis + {1} or Krasis + {2} on your opening healing skill, the 20% buffs your physis II and kerachole significantly.

People underestimate how 60s isn't too long of a cooldown due to how static the dungeon design is and mechanics come out slowly. Use your AoE heals and such so you put them on cooldown and have them by the time the next mechanic hits. Treat Physis II as both a heal and a buff magnifier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RinaB

I watched the vid...that's what I was afraid of...I just wish I didn't have to burn AoEs to keep a tank up... and before the "sage may not be for you" comment, I guess I'm being too conservative with my CDs and not popping them because of the CD times....I just wish sage had more single target options instead of aoes...I get it now but it seems like a waste.

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If a cooldown has a recast of X seconds, and you didn't push it for X seconds, then there's a good chance you simply let it go to waste. (I'm going to leave aside optimized runs where you know exactly how long the encounter will be and can thus plan your cooldowns more precisely.)

The typical Duty Finder dungeon trash pulls will take >= 2min, and the typical Duty Finder boss hits the tank and party with a wet noodle. So, use your cooldowns, whether they be single target or AoE. It'll be fine.

Kerachole should be your first line of defense given it's your mitigation tool with the shortest CD at 30s. The regen on it's surprisingly strong too.

Most dungeon bosses don't hit hard enough to really force you to use the longer cooldowns that much, while it's usually the trash pulls that tend to get spicy, so don't hesitate to use them if you feel the need to. I've had a fair share of tanks that's made me use Temperance with WHM or Seraph with SCH, while many of AST's main healing tools are all aoe too, so it's not a mindset limited to SGE either.

Also Tower of Zot has some especially nasty pulls for some reason and it's fairly common to have to fall back to GCD heals for the last 2-3 wall-to-walls, if that's what got you worried.

The only way you can “waste” healing CD’s is to not press them

Using an AOE heal just to heal the tank is not wasting it because otherwise you just wouldn’t have pressed it

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

In practice, for SGE, this might translate to: Use Panhaima. Use Physis.

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And Kerachole in particular, to have another 15s 10% damage reduction. It's something many healers seem averse to, but particularly Sages.

You want to use your AoE abilities even for just the tank. If you use them on the 1st pull between each boss, they will be back up again during the boss fights. I typically do Krasis - Physis - Kerachole - Haima - Terachole when Kera wears off and Soteria on 1st pull. Then Krasis - Physis - Kera - Panahaima - Terachole - Holos on 2nd pull. Then boss, then everything will be back up.

Don't forget to combine your ogcd heals with a shield. As soon as the shield applies, because this briefly stops damage and tops the tank without their hp continuing to drop.

Wait until their hp is low enough about half, or based on the rate at which thier hp is dropping, as to avoid over healing. Spreading your mitigation is important. Use lucid earlier 'before' going full gcd/shield heal mode, not once your mp is too low 40 -50%.

Also, as you aoe dps, target the tank while doing so and hit ogcd heals. Key here is that at least you can help kill things faster. Apply a buffed shield first, aoe, reapply before the buff(s) runs out. Rinse and repeat. Dead mobs can't hurt tanks. If all else fails, just focus on healing. Longer mitigations first and keep regens on cd dont save these (it's a dungeon).

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Originally Posted by Evos

Don't forget to combine your ogcd heals with a shield. As soon as the shield applies, because this briefly stops damage and tops the tank without their hp continuing to drop.

Wait until their hp is low enough about half, or based on the rate at which thier hp is dropping, as to avoid over healing. Spreading your mitigation is important. Use lucid earlier 'before' going full gcd/shield heal mode, not once your mp is too low 40 -50%.

Also, as you aoe dps, target the tank while doing so and hit ogcd heals. Key here is that at least you can help kill things faster. Apply a buffed shield first, aoe, reapply before the buff(s) runs out. Rinse and repeat. Dead mobs can't hurt tanks. If all else fails, just focus on healing. Longer mitigations first and keep regens on cd dont save these (it's a dungeon).

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Never hold lucid, press it on CD even in the opener when your MP is full, you should always press lucid on CD

SGE doesn’t really need to GCD shield, it has so many oGCD’s that can cover everything you really only need to GCD shield in an absolutely last ditch scenario, SGE is designed around not GCD shielding by default

let them die haha but sometime it's a good way or you can ask if they know what mitigation is sometime they might never be aware nor only run with the trust/duty support system