Revitilizing lower level content

One topic that's come up a lot lately in my LS is the plight of lower level content such as Sposhae and Toto-rak. These are events where lower level players can get nice gear with unique appearances, but rarely does that ever happen. These events sit empty and unused, save for the occasional level 50 swinging by for achievements. What can we do to fix this?

One suggestion from a fellow LS member is the implementation of level caps. Now, this won't exactly make it more populated, but it will mean the people who want stuff will need to drag friends along to help, as well as making the players have to do the event the way it was intended. Rather than one-shotting all the mobs, they'd have to take a look at the tricks of the various NMs, and deal with them as necessary. I'm not entirely for this myself, but I do think an optional level cap you can place when entering (Similar to assaults in FFXI) would be nice.

My own suggestion to the mix is simple: Increase all the drop rates. Toto-Rak actually has it right, with a 50% chance to get what you want, assuming you get the chest to appear. However, this should also be extended to the normal chests in the dungeons, as well as NM drops. I know folks might be saying "You just want the game to be easy", but that's just it: The game is already easy. Any of these NM or chest drops can be outlevelled in a few hours at most. Players SHOULD have to work hard for the gear that matters, the stuff at endgame that works as the best item for their build. However, for a low level NM or dungeon drop, the player should not be required to spend more time trying to get this item than it would take to simply level past it.

An additional though, and folks are gonna kill me for this, is to simply slow down levelling by a LOT, and add more events into the low and mid game (Instead of packing them all into end game). Levelling would take a lot longer, but players would have plenty of things to do as they level. Players would be more inclined to pursue rare items as they level if they did not outlevel them so quickly. However, I am certain this would piss off a LOT of players.

So, thoughts on any of these? Any suggestions of your own?

I am very opposed to slowing down the leveling process mainly because of the fact so many players have maxed out every class. With that said I am in favor of making drops more likely at the lower levels. Also I like the idea of capped levels but I would suggest adding level syncing along with it. Guild Wars 2 does this and its done a lot for helping me play with my friends. Which to me means a whole lot.

On one hand.. you have people who want to experience the game, the leveling up, gear usage and journey through levels, areas and such as an adventure all its own, even if exploring and killing monsters on a daily basis, the process requiring weeks to complete what most have found can be done within a matter of hours, to get to that final plataeu of achievement, the level cap, optimal gear set up and finely explored, well combed out personal map with a sense of relief and pride.

On the other hand.. you have people who want to skip the lower stuff, get pass the stuff that ultimately, when you do get to the cap, simply wont matter anymore and get to the cap as quickly as possible, so that the things that hold challange at that level can be confronted and optimal gear can go even further. Personal competition to always become something bigger and better than you were before.

Its a difficult thing for SE to accomodate. How do you make everyone happy, while allowing people the freedom to play the way they want, without hindering everyone else in the process?

The answer to that, I dont know, but I do think that perhaps their intent to adjust leveling into a quest/contet based thing may do something to that end. Those who want to take a slower, casual pace can do so by working out the quests and exploring slowly, gradually building themselves up as they want, without having to camp out specific monster camps, or being power leveled through dozens of levels in a sitting.

While those who want to push their character past the thresholds more quickly can focus on specific content that can help streamline their experience and help propel them where they want, with minimal fuss.

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An additional though, and folks are gonna kill me for this, is to simply slow down levelling by a LOT, and add more events into the low and mid game (Instead of packing them all into end game). Levelling would take a lot longer, but players would have plenty of things to do as they level. Players would be more inclined to pursue rare items as they level if they did not outlevel them so quickly. However, I am certain this would piss off a LOT of players

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Imo, this, so much. Everyone is so obsessed with the rush to endgame, there's absolutely no fun in actually making progress with your character.

Insta-solution: slow leveling the hell down + make the low level content mandatory to advance.

You take a few days to get to 15, then the game has require you to clear shposhae to advance, you go there, you see the loot and think hm... maybe I'll do this a few more times to get me some plundered equipment" and 3-5 runs later you got some loot and gained a few levels and you move on to the next level threshold/content and so on.

VS

Get 10 in 30mins, get PLed to 35 in a day, 35>40 the next day > leech in natalan for a few hours to 50.


In FFXI you had to stop @18 to get the subjobs then level up a subjob then make your way to jeuno @20 afterwards you gotta clear rank 2 then 3 missions then get kazham access and stay there to 33 then start on rank 4 then 5 around 40-45 to get your airship access then @50 you needed to beat G1 to get to 55 then more Gs every 5 levels to 75.

You needed to keep your subs leveled, you needed to upgrade gear often and many quests were worth doing for spells gear and money and there was unlocking advanced jobs and leveling them from scratch also BCNMs that were a decent challenge and a source of income, money was tight for most people and you had to slow down to make it.

And FFXI's version of PLing was a mage curing you from outside the PT, they couldnt help you kill 20 mobs in an instant so leveling speed was the same with or without one but with 1 around the down time was cut incase of death or links.

One thing I really want to see in FFXIV is lv caps, to go along with this I also want to see a Company Seal Reward for doing content again. Work it out to 1000s per 10 min caravan, these fights are usually 20-30 min cap so 1k seals for repeating old content seems good to me for assisting others.

To me having a lv 50 leave the group, kill everything and you still get XP is HORRIBLY broken. FFXI had PLing to a degree that worked like Arkine says, it was to a level where you could be PL'd and it would boost your leveling speed, but not be insane like it is in ffxiv

Low end content is dead because this game has been live for going on two years now. the segment of the player base that are in the range of using suposhe and toto correctly is minimal at best. Even at the correct ranges there is very little incentive to use them to progress over other means. Hell in the case of suposhe there are no reasons to go there other then one quest that takes you to the entrance (correct me if any more suposhe related content has been added).


I am going to stop my self before i start rambling. But i will finish by saying the following. Any artificial ways of encouraging higher level players to utilize this content will Fail in the long run. The only way toto and suposhe are going to see sustained use is two fold. 1) Higher incentives for players of the correct level to utilize them 2) A larger and sustained segment of the player base at that level. And yes that includes tuning the leveling speed down.

None of those are going to happen in 1.xx. The devs know where the player base is right now and is developing content for them and actively aiding straggling players to reach that content.

unless SE drastically changes the games design, any content pre-endgame is pointless. This is potentially one of the worst game designs they have atm. You level so fast, wasting time to do dungeons is more or less foolish you will outlevel the gear potentially in less then 24hrs. The level 15 dungeon even faster, rank 15-25 in a party takes less then 5hrs. So why waste time spamming a dungeon when you can buy stuff from crafters and be past it in less time then it would take to get the gear.

I agree with Lvl Caps to enter zones, but they would also have to put back in level sync so someone does not have to have 20 different sets of gear. Also a level 50 would need a reason to enter a level 25/15 dungeon, to experience the game or help a friend usually will not cut it there has to be a reward that is still relevant at endgame. Or they need to slow level down to match XI so low level gear has some meaning at all to it.

SE handled keeping content relevant throughout the game very well before... despite what people say on this forum about FFXI needs to be seperate they need to look at it on how to keep old content meaningful. XI did this better then any other mmo ever has. There is a reason people where still doing the level 20-30 BCNMs 7-8yrs after they where released.

IT really sucks, Toto and Sposhae are well designed places but the devs sorta completely wasted their time designing them. Only 6/51 people in my linkshell even been in Sposhae before, and there are so few people partying at low levels there is no way to make a group to do them without highlvl help.

I wouldnt be opposed to capping them to be honest i dont think trying to make totorak compete with caravans or making them npc gill farming areas will help all that much. My thought would be to connect the rewards with a upgrade system like they had with salvage in xi with the end result being better than single meld worse than double meld gear (atleast in most cases). That way players can lv up do dungeons at x lv get the gear wear it as they lv up and then upgrade it so it can last them till they can get better gear through endgame. To incentivise the old players with better gear already i would say add a few new drops as incentive for higher lv players like a drop that can be converted into rare materia or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Griss

Low end content is dead because this game has been live for going on two years now. the segment of the player base that are in the range of using suposhe and toto correctly is minimal at best...


...The only way toto and suposhe are going to see sustained use is two fold. 1) Higher incentives for players of the correct level to utilize them 2) A larger and sustained segment of the player base at that level. And yes that includes tuning the leveling speed down.

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Well aware of the lack of lower levelled players. This thread is mostly to try and think of ideas to fix issue #1, with the idea that issue #2 is already being worked on. Not saying it's not an issue, but since new players are vital to their pocketbooks, I believe SE is doing all they can to try and encourage new players already.

Like in FFXI: Level caps for these instances. That the level of your current class/job is decreased to maximum level for that dungeon.

dont know why they didnt implement that yet

all they need is things to do 24/7 while leveling up then no one will be bored and there has to be solo content or your stuck again waiting for a party.

There has to be level capped instances, If leveling is slowed down "enough" i think most people will go totally bananas. How slow would leveling have to be to make a group of newly lv 50 people grind out Hamlet defense etc etc beat ifrit extreme instead of blasting to lv 90 and getting it all done then? Will that kind of content go the way of Toto-Rak? I hope not.

One way is to think what other purposes could we add to those dungeons....

Maybe dungeon levequests? for xp (for the lowbies) and GC seals (to entice the players at max rank)

Connecting dungeons together. Clear Dungeon A to get a key item for use in Dungeon B. Basically force players back into the earlier Dungeon or there is little point in doing/or its not possible to go into Dungeon B.

Make the world more unique/diverse. You only get coerls in Dungeon A. The only other way to get coerl hide is to buy them from an npc. Entice people to farm in those Dungeons.

Another suggestion is a type of Hunt system possibly based on a type of levequest. Clear the 10 rank1-10 NMs in Dungeon A to unlock the 10 rank 11-20 NMs in Dungeon B. And so on. Then at endgame you have 10 rank 60 HNMs in Dungeon Z.

Or perhaps, something more simpler, like clear Totorak to get a disposable unisversal key item that lets you enter a variety of BCNMs rank 30,40,50

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

Well aware of the lack of lower levelled players. This thread is mostly to try and think of ideas to fix issue #1, with the idea that issue #2 is already being worked on. Not saying it's not an issue, but since new players are vital to their pocketbooks, I believe SE is doing all they can to try and encourage new players already.

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#1 is a relatively easy fix. You just make them places people want to go. Good camps, Tons of related quest content, Great drops, Fun fights. It just snowballs from there. eventually suposhe becomes the place to go for x-y because suposhe is the place you go for x-y. Hell they even have a great gimic for the area right now, Plumb the depths for a chance at finding Mistbeards lost stash! It's just not being capitalized on.

2 Is and will always be the elephant in the room. Even if they manage to turn the zone into a mecha for all things low end. The nature of the game will push people away from the zone and in time unless there is a constant influx of players eventually there will be a very lonely bunch of grippers.

Hopefully though during the beta phases and for a time after 2.0's launch those zones will be rocking even if for a short while.

This is what came to my mind when I started reading the posts in this thread:

How much fun would it be to do Toto-Rak with a group of friends at levels 24-27? (Something around there). I always wanted to do it but no one wants to because they don't want to experience it, they'd rather blast through the levels to get to 50. Know why? BECAUSE leveling is too easy and too fast.

It's saddening that a great dungeon such as Toto-Rak is not being experienced the way it's meant to be.

My three friends and I who are all moderately new to the game have been quadro-ing Totorak and been loving it. We're using the dungeon to level and get gear at the same time -opening all battle chests before picking a random boss to tackle. It's challenging, exciting, and insanely fun. I have to say I also completely agree with your point on making the gear drop rates better. We've run the dungeon several several times and gotten the red-gold chests and obtained junk more often than not.

I don't think that anyone should be forced to slow down leveling because casual players like us would never make any headway if that were the case. People that want to use the content in the way it was intended will find a way. On a side note: The four of us quadro'd our souls today and it was a blast. New players are out there! And they are still using the content!

-happy hunting

It's quite simple. If SE is happy with their sub volume continue making end game content and only end game content. If they want more subscriptions, they need to move away from end game content for a while and go back and add more to the journey.

"Do XXX Leve Quests" is not leveling". It's time stamping an initiation to real content.