Sage improvements: Kadia Heal/Shield Mechanic

Sage is as best as can healer get in DT but making the job "shield healer" and still has the highest healing is showing how current "shield" and "pure" healer design philosophy shows its colors in DT.

here is why I suggest Sage improvement:
1- make the job healer with out the separation of shield / pure.
2- having the option to switch between shield/heal in middle of the fight (Astro mains do you remember sects?)
3- reduce the buttons and make them more situational and meaningful.


Kardia system improvements:
- main idea:
each 60 second sage can switch between 2 types of Kardia.. before Kardia ended its duration it will give buff with 6s that if you switch it will give buff Soteria for the next 5 attacks.

- Main Kit:
not changing much but give more options, starting with Kardia:

Kardia (Heal buff) (120s recast) "same as we see now":
Grants self the effect of Kardia and a selected party member or self the effect of Kardion, restoring HP after landing certain magic attacks.
Cure Potency: 170
Additional effect: Replace "Eukrasian Diagnosis" with "Diagnosis" as a default
Additional effect: Replace "Eukrasian Prognosis" with "Prognosis" as a default
Additional effect: using "Eukrasia" will allow you to use "Eukrasian Diagnosis" but with 30s recast time.
Additional effect: using "Eukrasia" will allow you to use "Eukrasian Prognosis" but with 30s recast time.

Kardia (Shield buff) (120s recast):
Grants self the effect of Kardia and a selected party member or self the effect of Kardion, Grant Shield after landing certain magic attacks.
Cure Potency: 170
Additional effect: Replace "Diagnosis" with "Eukrasian Diagnosis" as a default
Additional effect: Replace "Prognosis" with "Eukrasian Prognosis" as a default
Additional effect: using "Eukrasia" will allow you to use "Diagnosis" but with 30s recast time.
Additional effect: using "Eukrasia" will allow you to use "Prognosis" but with 30s recast time.

Eukrasia (spell):
Augments certain offensive and healing magic actions.
Dosis III is upgraded to Eukrasian Dosis III.
Dyskrasia II is upgraded to Eukrasian Dyskrasia.
While in Heal Kardia:

Diagnosis is upgraded to Eukrasian Diagnosis.
Prognosis is upgraded to Eukrasian Prognosis II.

While in Shield Kardia:

Eukrasian Diagnosis is upgraded to Diagnosis.
Eukrasian Prognosis is upgraded to Prognosis II.

This action does not share a recast timer with any other actions. Upon execution, the recast timer for this action will be applied to all other weaponskills and magic actions.

Phlegma III (40s recast) (2 stacks):
Deals unaspected damage to target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 600 for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: While in "Kardia (HEAL)" apply shield to partner with Potency: 170 for 20s
Additional Effect: While in "Kardia (Shield)" apply excog effect to partner with Potency: 170 for 20s

Pneuma (120s):
Deals unaspected damage to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 360 for the first enemy, and 40% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: While in "Kardia (HEAL)" Restores own HP and the HP of all party members within a radius of 20 yalms
Cure Potency: 600

Additional Effect: While in "Kardia (Shield)" Grant shield to all party members within a radius of 20 yalms
Shield Potency: 600


Philosophia (180s):
Increases healing magic potency by 20%.
Duration: 20s
Additional Effect: Grants self and nearby party members the effect of Eudaimonia, restoring HP after landing spells
Cure Potency: 150
Duration: 20s
Additional effect: can be switched to shield if you use "Eukrasia"

Pepsis (15s recast):
Switch current shields to heal even Kardia (shield)


summarize the idea:
sage can switch between 2 types of kardia that have shield/heal effect.
switching optimally will grant additional healing/shielding potency.
Phlegma and Eukrasia is like reverse button for current Kardia.

I mean, sure. But also, why?

This just reads like a lot of complication for incredibly marginal effects since it's still only Kardia. And I guess I struggle to think of a situation where just staying shield mode isn't optimal.

So... you want to turn Sage into a busted form of pre-Endwalker AST?

I think I'd just prefer to get pre-Endwalker AST back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carighan

I mean, sure. But also, why?

This just reads like a lot of complication for incredibly marginal effects since it's still only Kardia. And I guess I struggle to think of a situation where just staying shield mode isn't optimal.

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This is actually thing gaming called "skill expression" that require to utilize what current tool u have.

I mean is the current sage hard?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

So... you want to turn Sage into a busted form of pre-Endwalker AST?

I think I'd just prefer to get pre-Endwalker AST back.

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So you want only 1 job in the game can switch from pure to shield? I mean.. that's why it was OP
Because it was the only job have it.

And I think AST and SGE have very different kit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

This is actually thing gaming called "skill expression" that require to utilize what current tool u have.

I mean is the current sage hard?

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Irrelevant, because the actual combat design in the current game does not allow for meaningful skill expression, hence trying to bolt it onto the jobs is trying to use a bandaid to fix a missing limb. Wrong tool for the job, and misunderstanding the breadth of the issue.

Also, the top post isn't skill expression, it just adds complications. Complexity is not the same as depth. It'd just be another rote thing to go through, and well with the numbers provided in fact not even that, you just stay in shield mode.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Irrelevant, because the actual combat design in the current game does not allow for meaningful skill expression, hence trying to bolt it onto the jobs is trying to use a bandaid to fix a missing limb. Wrong tool for the job, and misunderstanding the breadth of the issue.

Also, the top post isn't skill expression, it just adds complications. Complexity is not the same as depth. It'd just be another rote thing to go through, and well with the numbers provided in fact not even that, you just stay in shield mode.

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This is why we have braindead jobs.. because there is no way that someone with 10 hours can do same as someone with 100 hours into the same job.

This is sucks and kills the job design.

Complexity? But where?
Litterly 2 things I added with nothing complex in it:

1- Every 60 second you switch kardia.
2- Phlegm and Eukrasia is swirch button.

I take inspiration from old astro sect which was much more complex than this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

Complexity? But where?
Litterly 2 things I added with nothing complex in it:

1- Every 60 second you switch kardia.
2- Phlegm and Eukrasia is swirch button.

I take inspiration from old astro sect which was much more complex than this

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No, that adds stuff with no depth. It adds complexity, for no gain, because no extra depth of gameplay is achieved. That was my point. Complexity and depth aren't the same, I think you mean to say depth when you say complexity.

For example, Dragoon combos are quite complicated. You press 1-2-3-4-5, then 1-6-7-8-5. That's a lot of buttons you need to press at a steady rhythm, and naturally a relatively large amount of motion for your hand. But there is ZERO depth in it, as there is no deviation, no branching, no decisionmaking, no nothing in it. You might as well have a single button that automatically goes through this sequence in order. You never need to veer from this, in fact it you would never want to. For the amount of depth (none), 8 buttons total is a lot of complexity, as it achieves nothing and could just be removed whole at no loss of gameplay depth.

That's what I mean. Such a system adds nothing. It doesn't lead to any smarter gameplay, it doesn't provide skill expression as there is a pre-programmed optimal route to use the new Kardia (nevermind how smarter tank healing pouring a bucket of water into the pacific ocean given current tank survivability, last point where it'd be needed, ever), it just adds new buttons to push in a rote motion. It's the core flaw of the entire current combat system - and hence me saying this is a general and larger issue - that we have so many buttons that provide no gameplay as there is a set pattern in which they are pressed, like a broken simon says game that cannot randomize its pattern, ever.

Now, if your Kardia were forcibly and randomly swapped every 60s (or not swapped, random), and you had to work around whatever you got dealt, that'd still be meh because of what trivial effect Kardia has to tank survival, but it'd be an interesting reactive system.

(also, why post from two different accounts instead of just the one?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carighan

No, that adds stuff with no depth. It adds complexity, for no gain, because no extra depth of gameplay is achieved. That was my point. Complexity and depth aren't the same, I think you mean to say depth when you say complexity.

For example, Dragoon combos are quite complicated. You press 1-2-3-4-5, then 1-6-7-8-5. That's a lot of buttons you need to press at a steady rhythm, and naturally a relatively large amount of motion for your hand. But there is ZERO depth in it, as there is no deviation, no branching, no decisionmaking, no nothing in it. You might as well have a single button that automatically goes through this sequence in order. You never need to veer from this, in fact it you would never want to. For the amount of depth (none), 8 buttons total is a lot of complexity, as it achieves nothing and could just be removed whole at no loss of gameplay depth.

That's what I mean. Such a system adds nothing. It doesn't lead to any smarter gameplay, it doesn't provide skill expression as there is a pre-programmed optimal route to use the new Kardia (nevermind how smarter tank healing pouring a bucket of water into the pacific ocean given current tank survivability, last point where it'd be needed, ever), it just adds new buttons to push in a rote motion. It's the core flaw of the entire current combat system - and hence me saying this is a general and larger issue - that we have so many buttons that provide no gameplay as there is a set pattern in which they are pressed, like a broken simon says game that cannot randomize its pattern, ever.

Now, if your Kardia were forcibly and randomly swapped every 60s (or not swapped, random), and you had to work around whatever you got dealt, that'd still be meh because of what trivial effect Kardia has to tank survival, but it'd be an interesting reactive system.

(also, why post from two different accounts instead of just the one?)

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Issue with dragoon is very different.. Dragoon issue is how many button to use in rotation.
The current issue with Sage is not being able to use heals as affective as shields.

Kardia isn't forcing to change and it is not randomly
It just another kadia button that change kit to shielding kit

You manually change it as I mentioned above..
Changing it before time ended by 6 seconds will apply buff for next 5 attacks

I use different accounts because I use different devices and I am too lazy to switch.. also for daily limit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

So you want only 1 job in the game can switch from pure to shield? I mean.. that's why it was OP
Because it was the only job have it.

And I think AST and SGE have very different kit

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In my experience, AST is/was OP because of its various buffs and numerous high potency delayed heals. Not because it could moonlight as a barrier healer when in a Full Party with a WHM.

Keep in mind, by the way, AST was locked into its sect during combat, you had to commit to whether you wanted regen or shields beforehand. What you suggest might be a little much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

In my experience, AST is/was OP because of its various buffs and numerous high potency delayed heals. Not because it could moonlight as a barrier healer when in a Full Party with a WHM.

Keep in mind, by the way, AST was locked into its sect during combat, you had to commit to whether you wanted regen or shields beforehand. What you suggest might be a little much.

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Hey maybe you don't agree with me but designing healers as shield/pure is the worst thing happened to healers..

AST in ShB was just a breath of a fresh air.. but now we got back to this dumb design

My idea is every healer can have both healing and shielding.. and you might ask how to make them unique?

Simple.. gameplay interaction with their kit

I choose kardia system as a defining change to pure/shield aspect of sage.. and I believe all healers should have both.