This character could have been main villain for an expansion

I wish we had an expansion length with this villain.. design wise and story wise is way deeper than DT whole story

but we got sphene

https://www.siliconera.com/wp-conten...res-golbez.jpg

And forfeit the chance to speak Wuk Lamat?

I perceive the stench of heresy!

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Originally Posted by genuine_stranger

And forfeit the chance to speak Wuk Lamat?

I perceive the stench of heresy!

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Wuk lamat I let you down.. please keep the peace to our nation
WE WANT PEACE
PEACE IS THE SOLUTION
HOW TO LIVE WITHOUT HEARING WUK LAMAT SPEAK OF PEACE
WUK LAMAT IS THE PEACE MAKER

The Void story barely had enough to it to stretch across patch content, and you want that as a whole expansion?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

The Void story barely had enough to it to stretch across patch content, and you want that as a whole expansion?

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Writing overall went bad after EW but at least we would love to stop talking about peace for an expansion or two

Yeah, no...

Gonna have to disagree, he didn't really have much more substance, and to be honest there was barely enough behind the character to go for just post-expansion story, let alone for an entire expansion.

Which is literally the exact same problem that exists with Wuk Lamat. So as far as I am concerned, same problem even if Golbez were a main villain.

How many players do you guys think have 0 knowledge of Final Fantasy IV (or any of the saga in general)? I think they could've replicated the story 1:1 and the majority of the playerbase wouldn't have noticed it (I mean, they kinda did but not really).

More on topic, The Void could have very easily been a new set of maps for a complete expansion. It would need a complete story rewrite tho, recycling Golbez and the 4 fiends as main elements of a whole expansion would have been beyond lazy.

It was a complete waste using it as the 6.x patch series.

Durante wasn't the worst FF14 villain, but he was a poorly constructed villain. Dude decided to try to commit genocide to get what he wanted, when literally all he would have had to do was ask nicely.

"Oh, y'all want to no longer live eternally and deathlessly in the Void? And to do that you need to die in the Source? Yeah, sure, come die here, it's no skin off our backs."

That fundamental oversight makes his character silly and hollow. There's nothing to explore or learn from this character because the entire conflict he heads can be resolved with a 5 minute conversation.

EDIT:
On reflection, I assume that the entire point of this thread was to encourage people to realize that at least Sphene wasn't as bad as Durante. And if that's indeed the case, well-played, and that's a reasonable point.

NGL, i clicked this and expected Soreel Ja.

Golbez did not have enough meat on him in this incarnation, and the EW patch stories were not that exciting imho.

Golbez was a boring villain who I didn't care about at all. Maybe if I'd played FFIV I would care, but I haven't. I don't want some villain from another game to just get copy pasted into XIV, at least not as MSQ. Side content is fine if they want to do obvious crossover events, but the MSQ has always been careful to only make allusions to previous games while never directly lifting characters and plots whole-cloth from them. Until 6.x patches. Don't lean on the plots and characters of old FF games as crutches. Use them to inspire something new that still feels like FF.

That said, I will give Golbez one thing: His motive, while simple and kind of stupid, had some amount of logic behind it. The 13th lost its aetherial sea, so there is no life, death, and rebirth there anymore. If there was a way to rejoin it with the Source without causing mass destruction, one could argue it would be a mercy to the people of the 13th to finally be able to return to the aetherial sea and no longer be monsters forced to cannibalize each other for aether. Golbez wanting to do something to save his world, even if it harmed the Source, is understandable. Maybe with more time and thought and an attempt to be more original, he could have been a lot more interesting.

I don't know where you're finding any depth there.

Golbez was another Wuk Lamat. He just hid his inferiority complex better than Wuk does until after Zero beat him. Then it was constant "I'm not worthy, I was never worthy".

I found him equally annoying. I'd rather have Asahi back for an entire expansion than Golbez.

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Originally Posted by Cach

How many players do you guys think have 0 knowledge of Final Fantasy IV (or any of the saga in general)? I think they could've replicated the story 1:1 and the majority of the playerbase wouldn't have noticed it (I mean, they kinda did but not really).

More on topic, The Void could have very easily been a new set of maps for a complete expansion. It would need a complete story rewrite tho, recycling Golbez and the 4 fiends as main elements of a whole expansion would have been beyond lazy.

It was a complete waste using it as the 6.x patch series.

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I kinda disagree that a whole expansion can take place in the Void. There are stuff out there, indeed, as we have seen... but unless they introduce something totally unknown by 'unreliable narrators' (eg. a whole portion of the 13th that survived somehow in a huge floating continent), I can't see how it would host an entirety of six zones without being too monotone.

I do see great potential for a last zone, though, because it would have a similar effect to Ultima Thule, which was a very successful last zone in my book.

But yeah, I agree that the Golbez + Fiends wouldn't do. That whole storyline - even with Zero - could have been told in a Trials series sidequest, though.

I didn't care too much for Golbez and the post-EW story. It mainly felt like "Here's some more FF4 stuff, isn't that cool?" and then hardly did its own thing with it, unlike previous FF references. Stuff like the Crystal Tower, Doma, Ivalice, and Omega all take their own spin on things where as Golbez's storyline was quite predictable if you've played FF4. Even the FF4 references in EW prior to the patches were much better woven into FF14's narrative.

I preferred a set of Trial sidequests with the four Archfiends, similar to what they did with the FF7 Weapons and FF6 Warring Triad.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I wish we had an expansion length with this villain.. design wise and story wise is way deeper than DT whole story

but we got sphene

https://www.siliconera.com/wp-conten...res-golbez.jpg

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NO ! You'll learn about peace/power of understanding, eat your f...ing Taco and you will enjoy it !

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I wish we had an expansion length with this villain.. design wise and story wise is way deeper than DT whole story

but we got sphene

https://www.siliconera.com/wp-conten...res-golbez.jpg

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i think everyone wishes we had shadowbringers in the void. hopefully tis not to late
zero is such a good character, im a girl and even ive got the hots for her. she makes me proud to main reaper. shed have been such a cool paralelle to the exarch, instead of a beacon of hope, zero is unwilling and frankly uninterested in helping the 13th, she's a voidsent by nature and this is something that should never change. the WOL could have found something with her, as both work together to see each others POV and restore her damned world


golbez/durante was never real villain material. and them writing themselves into a whole with him killing the watcher is stupid, as it puts golbez at the center of everything, but perhaps a new villian from the 13 could surface, somebody behind the corruption from the beginning? possibly a fallen shard of azem? would also tie ciela and unukalhai into the story again

Nah I'm glad they didn't drag out Durante's villain arc any longer than they did. His face turn was telegraphed pretty hard, I can't imagine how they would go pretending he was bad for a whole expansion...

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I kinda disagree that a whole expansion can take place in the Void. There are stuff out there, indeed, as we have seen... but unless they introduce something totally unknown by 'unreliable narrators' (eg. a whole portion of the 13th that survived somehow in a huge floating continent), I can't see how it would host an entirety of six zones without being too monotone.

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well since we are currently making the void less darkness atm with the light from the first that is going to open up our new maps in the void for the next expansion we already saw one whole technical zone that was its own thing and since we also know the void is the direct link to other worlds its not entirely impossible to give us variety that way either, we still have powerful void entities waiting to be used in game from past lore that has been left on the shelf.

Given how Golbez was presented in the patch quests, there wasn't really enough to him to carry a whole expansion. I played FF4, and just constantly went "Maybe THIS happens now!" only to get...absolutely nothing the entire time so I just stopped caring since it seems the writers didn't care either. Endwalker patch MSQ was just a speedrun of the FF4 villains and then we move on. Even if they tried to do the entirety of FF4 as an expansion, it would probably just have a lot cut out or simplified.

However, the void itself ABSOLUTELY should've been given it's own expansion. Given how much the void as impacted so many different quests, areas, and even content ever since 2.0, to reduce the entirety of such a massive story/lore thing in FF14's world that people have show genuine interest in to just a simple and quick speedrun of FF4's major villains while we help some random edgy lady learn the power of friendship felt kind of insulting. Not only that, we defeat all the villains like it's nothing and then even get the void on the patch to start fixing itself like it's just a regular Tuesday at the office.

Maybe we'll revisit the void some years down the road, but I ain't taking that copium.

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Originally Posted by CuteBucket

Golbez was a boring villain who I didn't care about at all. Maybe if I'd played FFIV I would care, but I haven't.

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Nah, tbh knowing FF4 made the patch content more boring to me because so much of it's taken from FF4 beats that it wasn't really that surprising/exciting.

Sorry but that Story was also quite mehh...plot barely moved inbetween patches.

Nah, the entire post-Endwalker patch content was a trial series questline masquerading as MSQ. It was shallow, boring and just rehashing the story of older FF games. The villain of Dawntrail should have been Sareel Ja manipulating things from the shadows, as the story early on suggested he was doing. But that would have required competent writing, which was seemingly reserved for the Arcadion.

With them talking about Multiverse or timelines I'm fully expecting them to one day do the tired "The villain is an evil version of you from X timeline"

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Originally Posted by Cach

How many players do you guys think have 0 knowledge of Final Fantasy IV (or any of the saga in general)? I think they could've replicated the story 1:1 and the majority of the playerbase wouldn't have noticed it (I mean, they kinda did but not really).

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I do remember seeing people criticizing the Endwalker patch quest story for being a "carbon copy of FFIV's story" which was an easy way to identify people who have never played FFIV because the Endwalker patch quest story has almost nothing to do with the story of FFIV outside of names, designs, and references. Endwalker Golbez's character has very little to do the character of FFIV Golbez (same with Zeromus), the story's premise revolves around FFXIV concepts not present in FFIV, none of the major twists/reveals present in FFIV were reused etc. You can say it leaned too much on FFIV references and fanservice which sure fair but the people saying it was unnecessary because we already have FFIV and that it was just the same thing again are clearly talking out of their asses
Though I do agree with the OP that Endwalker Golbez is still cooler than Speen

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I wish we had an expansion length with this villain.. design wise and story wise is way deeper than DT whole story

but we got sphene

https://www.siliconera.com/wp-conten...res-golbez.jpg

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I felt like that whole quest line should have been a full expansion.

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Originally Posted by BunnyQueen

I felt like that whole quest line should have been a full expansion.

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Stormblood should've been two expansions, just as EW with its post patch story, as well as DT.
We begin to speed through any story beat without letting it breathe and build, just so the writers can get us to the new and shiny things.

By this point, I expect 8.0 and it's patches to cover four expansion worth of potential stories and world building.

I think writers did a bad job for the character.. it had the base of "probably" a best villain in the game.. but putting this guy in post expansion was just a crime..

also the void is more interesting than tural

As much as I prefer Golbez over Sphene as a villain and I would have loved to see more of the Void, I don't think it would have done well as an entire expansion. I'm gonna go off on something that may be completely inane, but and ever since the Doman Enclave, SE has tried expanding the concept of progression-based zone changes. I would assume that said void expansion would involved saving/restoring The Thirteenth somehow, and that would be a pretty good opportunity to apply that concept on an even larger scale, no?
Except... we kinda got a taste of that with Living Memory. Now, I didn't mind it being changed permanently (especially since I could switch it back with NG+ eventually), what I did mind is the lack of interactivity with the attractions and collision with nearly all the set pieces. (And of course the lack of any enterable buildings but that's an issue I have with maps in general) It makes the map feel so dead and boring and empty (and not in the way it's intended to be), and really killed the excitement and intrigue I had for it. I understand it's like that because it would look weird to players at a different point in the story but surely there can be a reasonable workaround to it?
But in any case, it got me thinking if the Void had zones that worked the same way, I think it'd be pretty miserable. I'd want to be able to really explore the Void and not merely look at set pieces.
Maybe in said expansion everything would just stay the same, but then what would be the point of going there if not try to restore it?

Sorry for going off topic but I wanted to add another personal hang-up I had with a Void expansion aside from narrative pacing issues and repeating everything else that's been said.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Nah, the entire post-Endwalker patch content was a trial series questline masquerading as MSQ. It was shallow, boring and just rehashing the story of older FF games. The villain of Dawntrail should have been Sareel Ja manipulating things from the shadows, as the story early on suggested he was doing. But that would have required competent writing, which was seemingly reserved for the Arcadion.

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Except it wasn't anything like Final Fantasy XIV and frankly it's an insult to imply that. They borrowed designs and names and that was it. Fauxlbez wasn't Golbez and that's a double entendre in this case, the story didn't even vaguely resemble it, and the literal only plot point sort of reused was Zero trading out the dark for the light.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I wish we had an expansion length with this villain.. design wise and story wise is way deeper than DT whole story

but we got sphene

https://www.siliconera.com/wp-conten...res-golbez.jpg

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There is much truth to this. The 13th, Zero, Durante, all of it should have provided a full expansion of content.

The whole questline felt rushed, the villain's motives were too shallow and ill thought out, and the conflicts were resolved too quickly. Zero and Durante deserved much better.

Hell, I think they should have split Endwalker into two expansions and left the 13th for a third expansion! It certainly would have felt fuller and the pacing would have been much better.

I understand that CBU3 felt some pressure to bring things to a close; but, what they gave us feels like something a freshman would have handed in when they neglected to do their term paper until the night before it was due. I've read much better fan fiction than the writing team is providing and that's bad.

Do better, Square Enix.

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Originally Posted by genuine_stranger

By this point, I expect 8.0 and it's patches to cover four expansion worth of potential stories and world building.

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Behold, 8.0 will have a different shard for every Zone, burning through all of em within one expansion xD

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Hell, I think they should have split Endwalker into two expansions and left the 13th for a third expansion! It certainly would have felt fuller and the pacing would have been much better..

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While I did enjoy EW's MSQ this comment also rings true and reminds me of WoW's storytelling during BfA when I last played. In that one, they blew through three campaigns that could (and should) have been separate expansions and the whole thing was rushed, hollow and dumb ... Just like the Void/Tural/Alexandria now.

Perhaps EW would have been even greater if we had a whole expansion on Garlemald and the Moon and a second (or post MSQ) in elpis/UT.

Perhaps Durante wouldn't have been a complete buffoon, if he had a whole expansion. Zero was quite interesting in her first patch, but the whole story fell off a cliff by the end. I wouldn't care about seeing either of them again tbh and wouldn't mind if interdimentional fusion nukes the Void into the First to make a new, uncorrupted world.

I've had quite enough of evil genocidal villains-turned BFFs, it got stale by the 3rd time.

Nah, Zenos Lopprit would be a menace.

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Originally Posted by Zarkovitch

Nah, Zenos Lopprit would be a menace.

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Bunny Zenos

It's hard to say whether this would've worked for a full expansion considering how everything went down in the game but in the end I don't think it would have

The events regarding the thirteenth happened very quickly and seemed mostly resolved, with Zero and Golbez going to try to restore light to the darkness

Being able to explore more of the void and the towns, seeing how they governed would have been fun but we already got that from the patch quests, with strong voidsent setting up domains and controlling weaker ones.

I think the reveal of Golbez being another shard of Azem that passed away is interesting, though it's never treated as a major reveal or anything but something that just happens
Maybe they'll come back to it in the future, just like there being a possibility to go back to the void in the future, but we'll see

One thing I did like is that Durante vaguely resembles how Golbez looks without his armor, which is what clued me in that something was off about him

As an aside, and this is something that really bothers me, I think one big failing of how FFXIV handles the narrative is that they don't account for optional content when progressing the story which can lead to plot threads seemingly dropped. For example, I don't recall Unukalhai and Cylva being mentioned whatsoever, despite being denizens from the void that are actively working on restoring their home much like Zero and Golbez are.

The story should have built up to Wuk Lamat becoming the next arcs villain. If they wanted to utilize her effectively, seeing her brother go bad, Sphene and her BS, etc, she should have been impacted. A fall from being like her father to seeing reality of conflict eventually becoming an antagonistic warmonger. Then maybe, just, maybe dealing with her all expansion would have at least led to something useful.

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

*snip*I've had quite enough of evil genocidal villains-turned BFFs, it got stale by the 3rd time.

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Yeah, they've played that trope too often. We them to switch it out.

I really wanted to see Krile getting a big storyline culminating in her having to choose between staying with the Students of Baldesion or taking what was offered at the City of Gold.