White mage a Mage first, Healer second

I have been thinking of designing the white mage but in a way that how I imagined the job could look like..
Personally WHM is best healer to me because how the idea of a nature elemental mage

So I imagined WHM as a mage first.. healer second.. burst healing and burst DPS.
I was always hating the idea of pure healer and shield healer and I think all healers should have both options in their kit.. the separation is unneeded.

WHM will have 3 main DPS GCD that can trigger GCD Healing.. transforming their kit based on last GCD element they have used..

Main Kit:

Stone V (GCD) (2.5s):

Deals unaspected 350 Potency.
(Can be casted without target it will deal nothing but it will change the element of other spells)
effect: Next healing spell like Afflatus Solace, Afflatus Rapture, Cure1, Cure2, Cure3, Medica1, Medica2, Asylum, Regen will have extra effect with 16% Mitigation.

Water V (GCD) (2.5s):

Deals unaspected 350 Potency.
(Can be casted without target it will deal nothing but it will change the element of other spells)
effect: Next healing spell like Afflatus Solace, Afflatus Rapture, Cure1, Cure2, Cure3, Medica1, Medica2, Asylum, Regen will have extra effect with 400P Regen in 9 seconds.

Aero V (GCD) (2.5s):

Deals unaspected 350 Potency.
(Can be casted without target it will deal nothing but it will change the element of other spells)
effect: Next healing spell like Afflatus Solace, Afflatus Rapture, Cure1, Cure2, Cure3, Medica1, Medica2, Asylum, Regen will have extra effect with 300P Shield.

(Potencies are not accurate it is just an example)
(Numbers can be adjusted if it is AOE healing)

Afflatus Solace, Afflatus Rapture, Cure1, Cure2, Cure3, Medica1, Medica2, Asylum, Regen
will stack last 2 effects.
First effect of the element will take the full potency or percentage..
second effect of the element will take 50% potency or percentage.

for example:
If in someone rotation did this:
Water V -> Stone V -> Afflatus Solace

Afflatus Solace will have extra effect of 2 elements
Water: 400P regen in 9s, Stone: 8% mitigation.

Removing:
Divine Benison, Aquaveil, Dia

Temperance (60s) (Buff):

Increases healing magic potency by 10%, while reducing damage taken by self and all party members within a radius of 50 yalms by 10%.
Duration: 20s
Additional Effect: Grants Divine Grace
Additional Effect:
Change Aero V and Water V to Glare V.
Stone V cannot be used. (because it will be passive effect to full party)
Grant 1 free stack of Afflatus Misery

Duration: 30s

Glare V (Shield) (I didn't find a good name yet) (2.5) (GCD):

Deals unaspected 400 Potency.
effect: Next healing spell like Afflatus Solace, Afflatus Rapture, Cure1, Cure2, Cure3, Medica1, Medica2, Asylum, Regen will have extra effect with 500P Shield.

Glare V (Regen) (I didn't find a good name yet) (2.5) (GCD):

Deals unaspected 400 Potency.
effect: Next healing spell like Afflatus Solace, Afflatus Rapture, Cure1, Cure2, Cure3, Medica1, Medica2, Asylum, Regen will have extra effect with 700P Regen in 9 seconds.

Afflatus Misery:

Deals unaspected damage to target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 1,320 for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Can only be executed when the Blood Lily is in full bloom.
Additional Effect: Afflatus Misery will stack party-wide last 2 element effects .
First effect of the element will take the full potency or percentage..
second effect of the element will take 50% potency or percentage.

other spells will be the same.

Note numbers are not accurate it is just to give an idea of kit nothing else.

I mean, as much as the idea behind aspecting your spells and afflatus with wind water earth and light to gain different effect is cool and stuff, ignoring number which are beyond broken.

There's one big caviat but at the same time would it really be one with such an OP toolkit...

In order to have a properly enhanced gcd, most likely an afflatus spell, you need to do 2 damaging gcd which, cleverly enough, you wrote can be cast without a target.
So you can't really throw more than 1 afflatus spell in a row without suffering a huge healing loss. But I guess that would be the price to pay?

However, on a more realistic note, SE removed the stance on AST which already has "aspectable" spells. And even back then we weren't allow to swap stance in combat...

What makes you believe that if they turned a 2 nonswappable-stances job into a no stance job, they'd make a 0 stance job into a 4-swappable-stance job?

Beside this yeah I mean it's kinda cool.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

I mean, as much as the idea behind aspecting your spells and afflatus with wind water earth and light to gain different effect is cool and stuff, ignoring number which are beyond broken.

There's one big caviat but at the same time would it really be one with such an OP toolkit...

In order to have a properly enhanced gcd, most likely an afflatus spell, you need to do 2 damaging gcd which, cleverly enough, you wrote can be cast without a target.
So you can't really throw more than 1 afflatus spell in a row without suffering a huge healing loss. But I guess that would be the price to pay?

However, on a more realistic note, SE removed the stance on AST which already has "aspectable" spells. And even back then we weren't allow to swap stance in combat...

What makes you believe that if they turned a 2 nonswappable-stances job into a no stance job, they'd make a 0 stance job into a 4-swappable-stance job?

Beside this yeah I mean it's kinda cool.

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That's why people want old astrologian back..

But let me explain your concerns:

The issue currently is the split between healing and shielding.. this idea shows it's colors with new sage and Scholar spells.

I want to remove this idea and focus on creating different interaction with heals.. People like healing and shielding and both can be balance if all healers have the option.

Affiliate can be caster without elements and it's healing will not be enhanced without elements.. but this is the price to pay to have burst healing playstyle.. you don't have to use spam heals unless it is necessary.

Thanks for your comment

Adding more point.. this WHM design is more like BLM in how you play it..

Few oGCD and more burst GCD.. planning required to get the reward.

first whm never was a DPS in older games but have so many support move making it better normally when have access to Dia spells and holy in some instances ultima I do think holy should go as a single target like back in the day and Dia goes aoe and whm should get protect shell and all the older spell could be interesting to see

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

first whm never was a DPS in older games but have so many support move making it better normally when have access to Dia spells and holy in some instances ultima I do think holy should go as a single target like back in the day and Dia goes aoe and whm should get protect shell and all the older spell could be interesting to see

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Mostly agree, I have no idea where the idea that ‘traditional ff white mages’ come from outside of some weird hang ups about it having Aero/ga in FF3 (even though if you wanted to use White Magic offensively you’d use a Sage lol). It’s also worth noting Ultima is only ever classified as White Magic in FF2.

But yeah personally I’d rather see White Mages get the iconic spells it’s usually associated with like Protect/Shell, Bravery/Faith, Haste, Berserk, status effects like Silence or Break (it could be a stun lol), and not Black Magic like Flood / Quake lol. Tornado is White Magic but it’s also a status effect (sets HP to critical), not a damaging spell.

Lol.. the fact that people calling this rework as a DPS WHM is something I dont understand..

I really didn't add any new abilities.. it is like glare but 3 versions of it they do as glare do but having additional effect..

Instead of spamming glare you just mix elements to get additional effect

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

Lol.. the fact that people calling this rework as a DPS WHM is something I dont understand..

I really didn't add any new abilities.. it is like glare but 3 versions of it they do as glare do but having additional effect..

Instead of spamming glare you just mix elements to get additional effect

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I mean, personally I think what ffxiv has done with White Mage has created what’s essentially a ‘ffxiv specific WHM’ that’s not the same thing as ‘traditional ff White Mage’.

A FFXIV WHM is a dps-heavy healer that utilised elemental and light magic to attack enemies and turns healing into dps.

A traditional ff WHM is much more oriented around support, with various buffs, debuffs, status effects and generally very few offensive abilities except from outside sources (i.e subbing Black Magic or Summoning).

Personally, I’d much rather they leaned towards the ‘traditional white mage’ concept than a ‘new ffxiv style WHM’. But then, that’s very clearly not what they’ve done lol.

Basically in terms of FFXIV WHM all the suggestions for changes and dps spells make sense for how the game works. But as someone who’s always playing mainline FF games I just look at WHm and think ‘nooo that’s not right White Mages can’t use that spell that’s not how they’re supposed to beeeee!’ *Soyjack face* lol.

It would be neat if we embraced the prevailing tank design paradigm and gave us full on supports.

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Originally Posted by Connor

I mean, personally I think what ffxiv has done with White Mage has created what’s essentially a ‘ffxiv specific WHM’ that’s not the same thing as ‘traditional ff White Mage’.

A FFXIV WHM is a dps-heavy healer that utilised elemental and light magic to attack enemies and turns healing into dps.

A traditional ff WHM is much more oriented around support, with various buffs, debuffs, status effects and generally very few offensive abilities except from outside sources (i.e subbing Black Magic or Summoning).

Personally, I’d much rather they leaned towards the ‘traditional white mage’ concept than a ‘new ffxiv style WHM’. But then, that’s very clearly not what they’ve done lol.

Basically in terms of FFXIV WHM all the suggestions for changes and dps spells make sense for how the game works. But as someone who’s always playing mainline FF games I just look at WHm and think ‘nooo that’s not right White Mages can’t use that spell that’s not how they’re supposed to beeeee!’ *Soyjack face* lol.

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I respect your opinion, as it is hard to define what is true ‘traditional white mage’ is.. it is very subjective and I know that.

For what I believe WHM is a Mage who uses elements to do their job same as black mage which also use element but in a different way.

let's look at what BLM element characteristics:
Blizzard: Restore own MP
Fire: Big damage and consume MP.
Thunder: Dot or could be fire amplifier.

What I imagined WHM element characteristics:
Stone: Mitigation.
Water: Regen.
Aero: Shield.

since WHM already has heals water element could fit more into regen aspect.
this is my perspective on elements in the game.. it give characteristics to mage job

and regarding to debuff and buff.. how could this be unique with 2 other jobs have debuff and buff? it is a challenge to me as I see WHM as you ask can be perfect if it is in another FF game or it will be redundant of what we currently have.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

and regarding to debuff and buff.. how could this be unique with 2 other jobs have debuff and buff? it is a challenge to me as I see WHM as you ask can be perfect if it is in another FF game or it will be redundant of what we currently have.

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The same way Bard and Dancer / Summoner and Red Mage all coexist despite essentially offering the same thing (raid buff / raise / etc). By having the ways in which it’s used, applied and managed vary for each job in a unique way. I.E White Mage having actual support spells while SCH/AST has ability based support. Astrologian could have stronger buffs to compensate for cards rng mechanics (assuming they returned). Scholars buffs could interact with Deployment and/or cost Aetherflow and debuffs could be tied to damage over time. Naturally Sage would continue (or start lol) to be heavily dps-oriented.

Having overlap between jobs within the same role isn’t a bad thing as long as the ways in which they do it is different. I mean, nobody complains about the fact Bard songs and Dancer’s dances do literally the same thing (damage up), because they’re done differently enough to still be distinct (Bard rotates songs, Dancer has step mini game, one is aoe one is single target etc)

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Originally Posted by Connor

The same way Bard and Dancer / Summoner and Red Mage all coexist despite essentially offering the same thing (raid buff / raise / etc). By having the ways in which it’s used, applied and managed vary for each job in a unique way. I.E White Mage having actual support spells while SCH/AST has ability based support. Astrologian could have stronger buffs to compensate for cards rng mechanics (assuming they returned). Scholars buffs could interact with Deployment and/or cost Aetherflow and debuffs could be tied to damage over time. Naturally Sage would continue (or start lol) to be heavily dps-oriented.

Having overlap between jobs within the same role isn’t a bad thing as long as the ways in which they do it is different. I mean, nobody complains about the fact Bard songs and Dancer’s dances do literally the same thing (damage up), because they’re done differently enough to still be distinct (Bard rotates songs, Dancer has step mini game, one is aoe one is single target etc)

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It is how they approach the "support" aspect it what is important.. simply pressing oGCD to have 20s 10% damage increase is not interesting in its own.

I mean look at dancer.. as perfect support with how unique they dance with RNG button rings to give buffs.. but the issue now we have BRD which is like I said press 1 button and give buff.. this isn't unique and it is the same for RDM and Summoner.. as there is no creativity outside of dancer.. even though I don't like DNC kit.. but it is perfect compared to other supports.

As what I believe we should have all options.. healers who heal debuff and healers who heal with damage..
Sage is perfect example of job that heals and damage with no buff and debuff.

if we want unique healers we have to have unique ways to interact with heals
same as if we want unique supports we have to have unique ways to interact with buffs/debuffs.

as my opinion we should have both options.. jobs who more heal/supportive and jobs who more heal/dps

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I mean look at dancer.. as perfect support with how unique they dance with RNG button rings to give buffs.. but the issue now we have BRD which is like I said press 1 button and give buff.. this isn't unique and it is the same for RDM and Summoner.. as there is no creativity outside of dancer.. even though I don't like DNC kit.. but it is perfect compared to other supports.

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Yeah, that's true.

Bards really ought to work like Paladins from DAoC or Bards from EQ1, having to constantly "weave" songs, basically spending all their GCDs turning one thing off and the next thing on, and as they have to swap what they're weaving they have to keep track what is where in each weave pattern. (in return, that'd be all they do, their damage is partially in some songs, but also their auto-attacks, they can focus entirely on this song minigame which frankly can be quite complicated as seen in other games)

Summoners OTOH I think is a more complex issue. I like giving them some support, but their central pitfall is how their inherently pretty solid design foundation is never used for anything smart. The major->3x minor cycle is amazing, but it needs... something. I'd retool their minor summons into three types, "Hard hitting and hard-casted", "Medium hitting and instant", "Soft hitting and support/utility centric". Then, when you start the major summon, this refills the minors, and you can see which ones you got for each slot. And they will largely work the same (see the descriptions), but the details differ, and it's fully random which you get. This also makes for a neat system for future x-packs, as they can just pile more "sets" on top. Say hard-casting can either be Ifrit (change DPS output to be top, keeps the gap-closer) or Shiva (3 slow casts to slowly build a huge ice crystal, wind up instant to shatter it and deal massive single+AoE damage). And so on. This could then allow pretty flexible utility stuff on the utility slot for them.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Yeah, that's true.

Bards really ought to work like Paladins from DAoC or Bards from EQ1, having to constantly "weave" songs, basically spending all their GCDs turning one thing off and the next thing on, and as they have to swap what they're weaving they have to keep track what is where in each weave pattern. (in return, that'd be all they do, their damage is partially in some songs, but also their auto-attacks, they can focus entirely on this song minigame which frankly can be quite complicated as seen in other games)

Summoners OTOH I think is a more complex issue. I like giving them some support, but their central pitfall is how their inherently pretty solid design foundation is never used for anything smart. The major->3x minor cycle is amazing, but it needs... something. I'd retool their minor summons into three types, "Hard hitting and hard-casted", "Medium hitting and instant", "Soft hitting and support/utility centric". Then, when you start the major summon, this refills the minors, and you can see which ones you got for each slot. And they will largely work the same (see the descriptions), but the details differ, and it's fully random which you get. This also makes for a neat system for future x-packs, as they can just pile more "sets" on top. Say hard-casting can either be Ifrit (change DPS output to be top, keeps the gap-closer) or Shiva (3 slow casts to slowly build a huge ice crystal, wind up instant to shatter it and deal massive single+AoE damage). And so on. This could then allow pretty flexible utility stuff on the utility slot for them.

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I feel we can have this iteration of bard if we split bard into 2 jobs.. DPS bard and Support bard.. DPS bard same current bard design but replace the support aspect to dps and have another job that dedicated to support with songs which I would prefer they name it bard.

the problem with summoner devs don't want to go crazy with the job design.. as for summoner the job should be the most creative job in the game.. having to summon different Eikons is just an idea that can never end.. but how they can make them unique? this is where creativity is needed.

As for me Summoner Phenix should be the main summon not Bahumet as I imagined the job with Phenix more..

but I was thinking of how we can creative while having Summoner which is support job and also be creative (forget the balance)

Imagine if we just summon phenix and all party get buff "raise from the ashes" which it will raise the first one who died without taking the debuff of dying.. and to make it balance it can be casted 2 times in 1 fight. it is just a cool Idea to have .. or instead of buff it is an extra insta cast oGCD raise without debuff of dying

WHM is most definitely mage first, healer second...

As evidence, I point to how often Glare gets cast in fights over healing spells.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

WHM is most definitely mage first, healer second...

As evidence, I point to how often Glare gets cast in fights over healing spells.

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Yeah that's one of my main gripes, less of "role feel" since casters spend their GCDs casting damage and ideally only want to heal via oGCDs.

It ought to be the opposite. Say my Malefic were instant cast oGCD, but with a 2.5s CD, and virtually all healing oGCDs are either instant cast or casted but are GCDs. In return I lose Lightspeed of course, so healing itself on the move becomes super tricky. Now I'd actually have empty GCDs (no biggie, not like anything changes, I'm just spamming Malefic anyways), but as soon as I need to actually heal/protect, I'm spending GCDs on that while my DPS is only the "side gig" I do.

That's how healing ought to be!

At this point, transform Glare and Dia into oGCD and add one or more other weaker damage dealing oGCD but with an effect to healings. (instant cast, more raw healing power, ...) that way, doing dps would impact healing without adding complexity. (we could still spam Glare and Dia to maximize our DPS)

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Originally Posted by Carighan

In return I lose Lightspeed of course, so healing itself on the move becomes super tricky.

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I don't see why this is necessary. Lightspeed is a mobility tool, not a Presence of Mind equivalent, removing it doesn't make sense especially if all you're doing is making dps oGCD. I use it as much for keeping dps uptime as for healing.

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Originally Posted by Jidka

At this point, transform Glare and Dia into oGCD and add one or more other weaker damage dealing oGCD but with an effect to healings. (instant cast, more raw healing power, ...) that way, doing dps would impact healing without adding complexity. (we could still spam Glare and Dia to maximize our DPS)

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Glare and Dia isn't interested to me that's why I ask for removing it and tried to integrate DPS kit of WHM to their healing kit and reducing number of oGCD to keep the job focus on burst healing/shielding

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

I don't see why this is necessary. Lightspeed is a mobility tool, not a Presence of Mind equivalent, removing it doesn't make sense especially if all you're doing is making dps oGCD. I use it as much for keeping dps uptime as for healing.

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Oh I too remember when it was like that. It was a fair few expansions, but yeah the times of mobility tools being for mobility were nice...