Tank Endurance Idea

I had a random idea I thought could solve the issue of Healer feeling not that useful in current content.

Tank Endurance.
All tank would have a Endurance bar, all tank defense abilities would cost a little endurance, Endurance itself has no in-combat Regen nor would tanks have any way to restore their endurance (Outside of one ability I'll get to in a moment)
Endurance would recover slowly out of combat.

Healer's would all have a way to restore tank Endurance.
Under this system, Tanks would be able to continue to self sustain themselves and enjoy being unkillable machines....as long as their Endurance can last.

All tanks would have one way to recover their own Endurance. (Two ways if you count the Echo effect so they can continue to solo older content and such)

Paladin: Passage of Arms (Usual effect): Grants the Paladin a Endurance Regen effect while Maintaining the ability.

Warrior: Restless Rage: Channel effect - Regen Endurance and Beast Gauge (About 10 Beast Gauge per second) while maintaining. If maintained for at least 6 seconds grants a Regen of 200 potency for 15 seconds.

Gunbreaker: Ammo Charge: Channel Effect - Regen Endurance and Ammo (1 Ammo per 2 seconds) while maintaining. If maintained for at least 6 seconds Grants 3 stacks of supercharged Ammo, This effect causes attacks that cost ammo to heal the Gunbreaker for 400 potency and remove a stack each time.

Dark Knight: Last Stance: Channel Effect - Grants a shield for 10% health for 20 seconds every second maintained (stacking to a total of 60% health) and Regen Endurance while Maintaining.

Please note these are just examples really and I'm not really a balance expect or anything.

I've really no idea if this is any good or not but it kind of sounded good to me and seems to find a middle ground maybe Tank and Healers. I could be missing some things though.

So you want healer to become Mana battery for Tank? all while giving tank a way to regen it themselves?

Yea....That was the idea; Though I guess I should have considered things a little more, Such has Attacks with healing effects (It would be super odd to have those with an Endurance cost) And the Maintains for Restoring Endurance I thought was a good idea but I guess that would just let two tanks swap over while the other does a full maintain to recover Endurance...Ok Yea...that are some clear flaws to the idea.

Here's a slightly different take on this "endurance bar": It starts out full, and it get depleted as the tank "endures" getting hit by mobs. Defensive abilities would help "mitigate" this depletion. Endurance itself has no in-combat Regen nor would tanks have any way to restore their endurance outside of one specific ability. Endurance would recover slowly out of combat. Healer's would all have a way to restore tank Endurance.

Because endurance gets depleted by virtue of getting hit by mobs, we might instead call it "hit points", or HP, for short.

Soo...put you down for a no then?
(Also..there was nicer ways to say you didn't like the idea)

Hmm, this would be interesting. Bringing back tactical points, except they would only drain on defensive CD's. The bigger the mitigation, the bigger the cost. I don't think a healer should be able to rejuvenate them. Maybe a bard could sing a song. A ninja could cast goad. Make it a niche way to recover them artificially outside of passive recovery.

The problem is, you have now inadvertently tied a tank's mitigation to the healer. Whether a tank can use their defensive actions or not, is dictated by the healer. This is just generally bad design as it could lead to bad healers preventing tanks from doing their basic job. Which, if we are starting with bad healers, tanks take more damage than they wanted to, so more healing required from the bad healer. Unless the tank wants to stop attacking for a period of time, ruining their rotation etc. You also have the problem of being able to show the endurance bars for both tanks so that you can keep track of them. (Not to mention your suggestions are wholly unbalanced, but I also acknowledge you just threw ideas out there).

If you want healers to be useful, you need to properly balance 3 things, healing/mitigation from healers, mitigation/healing from tanks and the incoming damage from bosses. Starting from baseline, every tank can survive everything, that is the nature of the game. If a job has other benefits on top, especially if they are skewing in one direction, that is where the problem lies.

In general, defensives are used for high damage situations, mainly tank busters. Between those, you have is the self healing. DRK's self healing is far below the other tanks, this is basically the baseline. All encounters are designed with this baseline in mind, so anything extra is just a massive boon.

in order to really balance things out, you either need to reduce the healing on all tanks, or, bring the tanks to the same healing level, so that it is more consistent. With a more consistent baseline for the tanks, incoming damage can be adjusted to suit this new level, where you can take into account healer resources, which makes healers relevant again.

We could have an Endurance stat and healers could have to keep it up. We could call it "HP".

It used to be that a tank couldn't really survive without the healer also healing. I mean, trash packs just auto'd too much, dungeon bosses were rough to attempt solo (unlike how a casual player could do it now with Bloodwhetting). 8-person bosses auto'd too hard.

Thinking of gauges though, it might be interesting to make better use of tank gauges and MP. The gauge and MP regen might need a little rebalancing but the idea would be to make it so the core rotation and role skills are free or self perpetuating but all the other mits/heals cost gauge/MP/Other resources gained from using other skills so that there is actual resource management in the tanking role.

please dont ever make suggestions about job balance again

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

please dont ever make suggestions about job balance again

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Had me scared for a moment there, but then I realized when I post the thread I didn't get the message "Waiting for approval from Collin_sky" So I should be good I think.

That being said, It would appear that tanks don't like the idea since it make them rely too much on Healers to be able to stay alive and Healers don't like it cause they want to heal Health and not Endurance....so...no one wins.
Fair enough, It was just a random idea but I understand that it's senseless to run an idea that both sides are unhappy on.

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Originally Posted by AlexandraFreya

Soo...put you down for a no then?
(Also..there was nicer ways to say you didn't like the idea)

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Eh? It's a fantastic idea, actually. You've essentially described how HP ought to work -- and actually does work in the levels before tanks get their gobs and gobs of self-healing and party-healing.

And therein lies the problem. There's nothing stopping endurance going the same way HP did -- that one specific ability to restore it will eventually become two, then three, then potency crept, etc. etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Eh? It's a fantastic idea, actually. You've essentially described how HP ought to work -- and actually does work in the levels before tanks get their gobs and gobs of self-healing and party-healing.

And therein lies the problem. There's nothing stopping endurance going the same way HP did -- that one specific ability to restore it will eventually become two, then three, then potency crept, etc. etc.

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I can see how the idea could just be kicking the can down the street type thing, though I could come back in 3 years and suggest "Tank spirit!" "Tanks endurance healing effect now cost spirit and this time 100% healers are the only one to can restore spirit"
Also just encase that wasn't clear
/s

This ability would be kinda fun if it's exclusive to invulnerability.

Say that a tank's invulnerability skill is locked when in dungeons/raids, and it has to be unlocked by a healer using a role skill on the tank(s), giving a specific buff required to become invulnerable.
Also means that any invuln uses are controlled by the healer, no more that classic jumpscare of "omg this GNB dropped from full HP down to 1 right after I used Benediction already".


Also... the way how you describe it is kinda... counterproductive to the goal?
Why would you give tanks a unique resource in order to use tank skills... claiming that you would need healers to provide that resource... but then also give tanks a way to acquire that resource without healers?
Still means that healers are optional as tanks can just gain the resources themselves.

I feel like this would be a novel concept for a new tank, but wedging it into existing ones probably isn't ideal.