Remove Cure/physick/benefic

I know that there are a thousand and one threads on this topic already but it bears repeating and grinding into dust. Levelling tanks has shown me just how widespread this problem is and the fact that after all this time cure/physick/benefic still remain in the game is flat out unacceptable. It's not funny anymore.

They are flat out useless at high levels, freecure and enhanced benefic are cruel noob-traps, and all they do is actively encourage new healers to play incorrectly to the detriment of their parties. Playing a non-warrior tank at high levels and watching helplessly as my hp drains while the healer spams a literal wasted gcd instead of healing or doing damage, causing me to run out of cooldowns and die is legitimately rage inducing, and it's entirely SE's fault for keeping it all this time. I should not have to constantly tell people that they're struggling to keep people alive at level 94 because of an ability they should not have.

"But coils."
It should be blindingly obvious that balancing the entire game around outdated, 10-year-old raids that nobody does anymore is a bad idea.

Remove cure.
Remove benefic.
Remove physick.

Please have them all upgrade into their better versions or remove them entirely. Please.

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Originally Posted by foyboy

It should be blindingly obvious that balancing the entire game around outdated, 10-year-old raids that nobody does anymore is a bad idea.

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I know it's intentional hyperbole, but it's of course not at all that the entire game is balanced around them.

In fact, quite literally the opposite. The game is not balanced for Benefic 1 at all, as part of that would include balancing it so that Benefic 2 is a very used and very staple ability - to the point where a low-mana better-efficiency less-output variant sees use. As the bigger ability is not even seeing use owing to the unneeded GCD healing, the efficiency does not matter in the slightest.

In that regard, I think I'd rather see something like this:

* Increase the beneficial procs of Cure 1 and Benefic 1 to 100% chance.
* Increase the potency of Physick and Diagnosis by 50-100.
* Increase overall damage in the game massively, specifically against non-tanks. That is, have both certain mobs (casters/gunners) and in particular bosses shoot random low-medium damage attacks at random non-tank members with every autoattack on the tank they do. Likewise, reduce many raid AoE blasts to compensate (as they could otherwise kill targets just hit the by random hits). This ensures a steady stream of 1-2 people losing 25%-35% of their health every 2-3 seconds, which would be impossible to heal with just timers. And as we'd need our GCD heals, we would have a desire for a lower healing but higher efficiency GCD heal.

In other words, I feel this is not a vestigial skill, but an indication of a game misbalance that needs to be fixed on the enemy - not the player jobs - side.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

I know it's intentional hyperbole, but it's of course not at all that the entire game is balanced around them.

In fact, quite literally the opposite. The game is not balanced for Benefic 1 at all, as part of that would include balancing it so that Benefic 2 is a very used and very staple ability - to the point where a low-mana better-efficiency less-output variant sees use. As the bigger ability is not even seeing use owing to the unneeded GCD healing, the efficiency does not matter in the slightest.

In that regard, I think I'd rather see something like this:

* Increase the beneficial procs of Cure 1 and Benefic 1 to 100% chance.
* Increase the potency of Physick and Diagnosis by 50-100.
* Increase overall damage in the game massively, specifically against non-tanks. That is, have both certain mobs (casters/gunners) and in particular bosses shoot random low-medium damage attacks at random non-tank members with every autoattack on the tank they do. Likewise, reduce many raid AoE blasts to compensate (as they could otherwise kill targets just hit the by random hits). This ensures a steady stream of 1-2 people losing 25%-35% of their health every 2-3 seconds, which would be impossible to heal with just timers. And as we'd need our GCD heals, we would have a desire for a lower healing but higher efficiency GCD heal.

In other words, I feel this is not a vestigial skill, but an indication of a game misbalance that needs to be fixed on the enemy - not the player jobs - side.

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You're pretty asking for ARR/HW levels of healing requirements and the Devs have already said they're not returning to that design on countless occasions, and even back then, we had more DPS skills on top of it all. The game is broken on a fundamental level at this point.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

You're pretty asking for ARR/HW levels of healing requirements and the Devs have already said they're not returning to that design on countless occasions, and even back then, we had more DPS skills on top of it all. The game is broken on a fundamental level at this point.

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No, I'm really not. ARR/HW healing was not a good thing to do. They just need to look at other MMOs and copy what works. There's no shame in taking over a clearly superior solution after years of struggling to find one yourself. >.<

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Originally Posted by Carighan

No, I'm really not. ARR/HW healing was not a good thing to do. They just need to look at other MMOs and copy what works. There's no shame in taking over a clearly superior solution after years of struggling to find one yourself. >.<

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Please explain how ARR/HW healing was bad and how your example is any different from it? If anything your example sounds much harder than ARR/HW healing because what you're suggesting is literally having 2 random player get hit with T13 Earthshakers constantly while the Tank is getting hit with Flatten, something that would not be sustainable in any context whatsoever, even with all our oGCDs to supplement our GCD heals. So if ARR/HW was bad, doesn't that make your idea even worse by extension?

I use those on DPS not gonna lie with you there and just to tell you this physick is 500 and lustrate is 600 too even if you can spam lustrate it's only a 3 use for a 100 more I wish it get buffed not gonna lie

I'm pretty sure Cure's and Benefic's purpose is kind of being a lower cost heal meant for DPS and other healers, who don't have the HP pool of a Tank... Physick and Diagnosis are for when you actually need to heal with a GCD, it's a situation where things have gone horribly wrong but it can happen.

Ah yes, removing abilities from healers because super-casuals are completely misusing them. That’s worked out so well for healers currently…

Even when the skills are useless in practice - we need them as a safety line. They are always available and cheap to use.

There is no reason to remove them. When people are not good enough to play healer properly that's their problem.

In my recent memory, the only time I got to use Physick was to keep my static's dps alive through P10S prog when they step onto the poison when I don't have Fey Union & saving Recit for something else, whereas Adlo would just made me run dry very early on.

Very niche use. Uncommon, but it exists.

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

I use those on DPS not gonna lie with you there and just to tell you this physick is 500 and lustrate is 600 too even if you can spam lustrate it's only a 3 use for a 100 more I wish it get buffed not gonna lie

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Physick & Diagnosis are 450p past lv85. Easy way to remember: regen healer's basic heals are slightly stronger at 500p per shot.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Even when the skills are useless in practice - we need them as a safety line. They are always available and cheap to use.

There is no reason to remove them. When people are not good enough to play healer properly that's their problem.

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If we wanted a safety line, they should be free. The number of times I cast these abilites at max level is once an expansion... and that might be an overestimate.

A very simple solution would be to make the rank1 spell get a potency gain up to the current rank2.
So "new Cure" = "Current CureII"

Upgrade rank2 spells to even higher potency and slap a 30s CD on it.

This way both rank see a use. The current "use the highest rank" wouldn't change, but since it has a 30s CD, you simply can't spam it. Basically like an ogcd but with a cast...

Regarding SCH, emergency tactic already work as a gatekeep. In order to match the new design, Physick would get a potency boost and Emergency Tactic would gain a "Increase Adlo healing by 25%" or something to match the desired raw healing.

Sage could simply have a CD on Euk-Diagnosis.