I think Frontline is fun, I really do, it’s all i do. But clueless rouletters and griefers are ruining it for me. personally i think this issue stem from how poorly FF14 introduces Frontline.
Some suggestions:
* Instanced duties that imitates a Frontline match, explaining objectives and basic tactics.
* new striking dummies in WDP. The player can set the striking dummy to a Role/Job to replicate and practice on to help understand dmg modifiers for each Job. instanced duty to fight any Job as AI. like training mode
* Frontline having its own Questline would be interesting.
As for Balance:
Aside from Astrologians absurd Macrocosmos, underwhelming and gimmicky Samurai and the insanely overpowered physical ranged Ninja. i think balance is fine overall (even Salted Earth is fine as it is) but the thing is a good and experienced Frontline player will see DRK premade coming from a mile away and act accordingly, even if the player get sucked by Salted Earth they’ll immediately Purify/Guard and back off to safety. However the vast majority of players are either Clueless of what’s going on or straight up griefers who don’t want to PvP in PvP mode. Both are born from poor introduction of Frontline, lack of knowledge and motivation/incentives.
Rewards/Incentives
why am i and a lot of other players are punished for not playing the game earlier let alone get into pvp by that time? Yes I’m talking about Series/Feast rewards. It should be available for everyone, however, it should be earned after a grind. Frontline achievements rewards aren’t enough.
* new currency system (Tokens/medals) you earn by killing, for every kill you get 1 token. Cap should be around 2k, it might seem a lot, but if players actually put in the effort it will be a smooth grind.
* All series/feast rewards should be obtainable. Via the said Vendor by exchanging the currency earned by kills. (don’t make them cost the same, every set/mount/accessory and plate should have its own weight and value) I guarantee you this will make people take Frontline more seriously.
* Exp given via roulette is x1.5 for 1st, 0.5x for 2nd/3rd. This is to lessen griefing of 2nd and 3d teams fighting each other for no reason.
* Add a scoreboard in WDP that shows top 50 players within the server, updated weekly. Showing kills, deaths, assists and dmg. This will evaluate the competition and make players want to be on the board.
* Field commander set is awesome but i think every map should have its own unique set of a similar idea. Titles as well.
that’s my humble feedback. Imo this will increase the quality of Frontline and make it more fun for PvP players, and reasonable to do by casuals/new players. It might seem like gatekeeping but PvP should be respected like every other content in the game, you want something cool? Work for it. You despise PvP? Don’t queue for it.
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08-05-2024, 07:29 AMIvoryBadgeMy humble Feedback on Frontline after 3200+ matches in 1.5 years
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08-06-2024, 12:19 AMCommander_JustitiaAfter 3200 matches and 1,5 years, you still don't understand the type of players you are dealing with.Quote:
why am i and a lot of other players are punished for not playing the game earlier let alone get into pvp by that time? Yes I’m talking about Series/Feast rewards. It should be available for everyone, however, it should be earned after a grind. Frontline achievements rewards aren’t enough.
* new currency system (Tokens/medals) you earn by killing, for every kill you get 1 token. Cap should be around 2k, it might seem a lot, but if players actually put in the effort it will be a smooth grind.
* All series/feast rewards should be obtainable. Via the said Vendor by exchanging the currency earned by kills. (don’t make them cost the same, every set/mount/accessory and plate should have its own weight and value) I guarantee you this will make people take Frontline more seriously.
You will make people queue at the same time, so they can meet in some corner and keep killing each other without fighting back, so they can get the former top100 ranked reward as easy and as fast as possible.
https://i.imgur.com/STMZYEU.png
You get Partyfinder like this then. Some specimen setting up ranked fullgrp PvP matches against each other to wintrade. If they are willing to do it for ranked, they will surely do it in a casual mode. Achievement hunters in a nutshell. -
08-06-2024, 02:39 AMIvoryBadgeWhile this might happen, is why I suggested the cost of every single reward to vary in value. Just like how tome gear works except it is harder to get and you have to work for more than 2k cap to get the full set, and that’s just one set. Say, for example, False Monarchy head piece costs 900 medals while chest piece costs 1200. That way it’ll be foolish to expolit it by killing yourself so your friend could get the set Instead of working with your alliance to get more kills with bursts. It’ll take a long while to get and I don’t think a lot of ppl would do it except like the extremely lifeless who’d spam it like madmen. (To be honest I haven’t thought about how Assists and Battle High accumulate with this).Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia
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08-06-2024, 06:17 AMCommander_Justitia
Well, I think series rewards should come back, as players were under the impression they will come back initially. And so, they didn't want to feel under time pressure and complete it at a different time, that was kinda stolen from them, as they seem exclusive again?! But for Feast ranked rewards I would be against something that can be grinded.
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08-06-2024, 09:43 AMIDontPetLalas
After 3200 matches (which, by the way, isn't so hard to accumulate) you've proposed a system that would not be at all fair if put in practise because some jobs can rack of kills by design, whereas others cannot regardless of 'putting in the effort"
i.e. "new currency system (Tokens/medals) you earn by killing, for every kill you get 1 token. Cap should be around 2k, it might seem a lot, but if players actually put in the effort it will be a smooth grind.
* All series/feast rewards should be obtainable. Via the said Vendor by exchanging the currency earned by kills."
If a system like this was put in place, and I have had a similar system in other games- at least players were evaluated per job. Which makes things more complex for the devs, but they would literally compare ASTs to each other for "contribution" perhaps healing and player damage, WARs to each other for player damage , etc. -
08-08-2024, 04:08 AMmaximesan514
While I admire your thoughts, I have the regret to inform you that square enix does not give a freakn **** what you would like to see in the pvp section, in fact they dont care about pvp all around. in the last 2 years there was literally 0 update to frontline but % decrease or increase.
Good luck !!!! -
08-08-2024, 03:07 PMVandi
^ I can confirm this. My repeated request for a piggyback on Tifa Lockhart mount as a pvp reward has gone completely unheard for the last 9 years.
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08-09-2024, 03:20 AMMistress_IrikaI will agree with you 95% of the way. My only slight suggestion to one of your suggestions is regarding feast.Quote:
Originally Posted by IvoryBadge
I have slowly been turning over my opinions as of lately when it came to feast rewards seeing that the devs shot themselves in the foot with this one. Mounts and glamour as a reward knowing that many people collects those and minions as top priority and recolored items as well? Nah. I do not mind them being earned whatsoever. However, I would not have folks grind games for it. Instead, I would have the requirement for those rewards to be finishing in the top 100 at the end of the CC season. Seems fair enough to me honestly. Will I probably push for this? Not with rank looking the way it is. The entire thing needs a do over and badly.
I would like to hear more of this new currency you're proposing. I don't think it's needed. However, I would like to hear more about it anyways. What are your ideas regarding this? -
08-09-2024, 05:43 AMElfidanI support the heck out of all this. I've been asking for something similar since the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by IvoryBadge
They've been nerfing NIN since the start but most of the nerfs didn't really effect any of the "annoying" playstyles it brings. Probably the only meaningful nerf was the shuriken clone damage. Which was severely needed. The lazy DRK/DRG strats have leveled up since the earlier days of Endwalker in my opinion. I support limit break synergy because it's good play and teamwork. That being said the newer additions of dancers and warriors into the already messy DRK/DRG strats is a problem for the average player towards whom adjustments for Frontline should be directed. That being said the fix isn't to adjust the jobs but adjust how the limit break CC interact in general. Stacked RPR DNC WHM CC in short order just feels weird and not good from a gameplay standpoint. If I eat one of those, I shouldn't be susceptible to the others for a set period of time much how cleanse works for normal CC.Quote:
Originally Posted by IvoryBadge
They need to hurry up and add a means for late adopters/absentees to get their series pass rewards. It's been long enough Yoshi this is ridiculous. Many people feel some sort of way about the feast rewards. I was around even played some during that time but it was awful, so I never really gave it much of my time. I don't think people should have access to anything that was a reward for a ranked placement. It defeats the whole purpose of it. Some of the people who placed however previously said they wouldn't mind so long as it's denoted in some fashion that it isn't the real deal reward. Such as "replica" treatment or off-color schemes.Quote:
Originally Posted by IvoryBadge
Yes, something does need to change about the exp incentives. The abuse in any given random match is visible even if it's happening on one of the other teams which is telling.Quote:
Originally Posted by IvoryBadge
I've always thought it was weird that all they bother to track is top win numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by IvoryBadge
I'm all for more pvp specific armor available for win totals or feats within specific instances. The titles already exist though, and some are even varied objectives rather than just win X times which is cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by IvoryBadge
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08-10-2024, 06:22 AMTeno
Frontlines definitely deserves a stronger incentive to win than just titles. More mounts and gear sets would also push at least a few people to try just a little harder, making games more fun overall.
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08-10-2024, 06:35 AMMawlzyThis is a very natural assumption. One can imagine most gamers putting in more effort if it helps them obtain something they want. I wonder, however, if this applies to the subset of players in FL who are basically doing nothing at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teno
For instance, if a player is "just here for the XP" (the problem players), one might hope that the current XP difference between first and third would encourage them to try and help their team win. On Shatter in particular, I often see team-mates and enemies alike running around the map on their mounts, apparently looking for a hiding spot.
I'm not sure how big this sub-population is, and suspect many of the FL allstars vastly overestimate its size, particularly since some of them assert it's everyone except them and their three friends. But if you're queueing exclusively for XP, and do nothing to help increase the XP the match awards you, I'm not sure smaller carrots are going to change the situation. Hence I prefer the stick of reducing rewards to the carrot of increasing them. -
08-11-2024, 08:10 AMGenzI fully share the sentiment.Quote:
I think Frontline is fun, I really do, it’s all i do. But clueless rouletters and griefers are ruining it for me. personally i think this issue stem from how poorly FF14 introduces Frontline.
The way PvP is introduced is horribly bad, indeed. It shouldn't be possible to queue while being completely clueless.
The minimum would be a mandatory quest, where the player has to use some skills on dummy, heal with Recuperate, etc.
The tutorial needs to be updated too, adding basic information like how many points are earned/lost per KO (I fear many new players don't know this and thus think getting KO 8 times is ok) or job damage adjustments (the current tutorial just says "go to Lodestone", they didn't even bother...)
At the start of each run, there should be a popup with a summary of basic informations : how many points per objective, how many points earned/lost per KO, jobs damage adjustments, Battle high, etc.
And maybe some opinionated advices, like "stay together, wandering alone is useless", "step back when you're getting low on MP", etc.
But there are many other problems, some can't be solved easily :
- reward too easy to get
- PvP just being too different from PvE, and many players just don't have the right mindset.
- default UI sucks
etc. -
08-11-2024, 08:27 AMAraxesThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia
We were given to understand that the Seasonal stuff will return at some point but they haven't yet. Regarding the old Feat rewards: Yoshi P repeated himself quite a few times now that those will not come back. And in Terms of fairness: it is impossible to recreate the same circumstances players then had to go through to get those rewards without COMPLETELY reverting the PVP system to 2.X/3.X.
We had all our pve+additional pvp skills back then. Gear was also a thing so you needed a second Set of Gear for every Job to have optimal stats. They would have to bring back the old Arenas and so much more. That will just never happen. -
08-11-2024, 09:01 AMMawlzyThese are all great ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Genz
The default UI is rarely mentioned, presumably because those of us posting here have gone though the pain of getting something useable. But I've heard it's a major speedbump for sprouts.
It'd be a huge advantage, for example, if before going into the instance, the UI could be fully displayed in the Wolves Den, along with gauges and bars, and a reminder you have 4 templates available. And maybe the PvP mavens here could even suggest what the default UI should look like? -
08-12-2024, 09:53 PMCommander_JustitiaRealized a little late that it was you in that one frontline match lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Araxes
I know it is probably the wrong game for me, but I absolutely like the idea of some items being very rare. If it is the Temple of Ahn'Qiraj world event mount of WoW or some special gear that drops from world first clears, if stuff like that would exist more frequently, then a lot more players would have something unique, so it wouldn't be really that bad but part of your characters history kinda. -
08-13-2024, 03:34 PMIvoryBadgeWhile I understand that Feast rewards are special in their own way. It is still unfair for newer players to not get a chance to obtain such prestigious rewards from a Mode that is no longer ingame. Not advocating for rewards to be grinded while on auto pilot mode. It’s better that the rewards require skill, experience and consistency to get or in other words the hardest to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia
I also agree with Elfidan on making a Replica instead while giving the og ones some sort of a sign to differentiate. -
08-13-2024, 03:45 PMIvoryBadgeThere are multiple ways to go for designing how the currency work. And personally i think something like the Bozjan coins system would work well as means to give motive playing PvP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika
Let’s say for example, HW af and the CT gear sets from WDP are earned by bronze medal (the currency you get from kills). In a higher rank there’s the Model and some wolf mark vendor rewards that require exchanging X amount of bronze medals for silver medals and so on. Of course Feast are in the top (Platinum?) followed by series rewards (Gold?).
The ideas may vary but the purpose of it is to make people treat Frontline more seriously, encouraging them to learn the mode, achieve prestigious rewards that are worth flexing just like raids, deep dungeons, crafting etc… and hopefully make more people enjoy the mode that we, a minority find charm in. -
08-13-2024, 05:20 PMMawlzyI applaud any attempts to drive engagement (and, more importantly, competence in FL), but this still feels very strange to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by IvoryBadge
You're suggesting expanding the current bribery system that ensures FL queues pop. That may encourage people to take the mode more seriously, but typically in the resentful way that any grind tends to produce. I fear a further dilution of the competence of the player base through this approach.
I'd suggest if you want people to take the mode more seriously, then improve the mode. That includes refreshing the meta on a regular basis, as opposed to the SQEX approach of letting it first go stale, then rot. -
08-13-2024, 07:36 PMAraxesI recently Went back to Play WoW. (I started WoW before FFXIV was even a thing and always played it on the side after i started FFXIV in 2015 except for Shadowlands)Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia
They turned around things quite a bit since the Catastrophe that was Shadowlands and you know what? They have Seasonal cosmetic Sets for Rated PvP, for EVERY Class EVERY bigger Patch. I went as a Discipline Priest (Healer) and achieved the rating to get the seasonal Elite Set. It was so nice having something to work Towards in PvP that is not readily available to everyone.
FFXIV's current Rated rewards are literally the Same EVERY TIME. If you get to Crystal/Top 100 once, there is literally no incentive to do it again.