Adjust weekly gear and tome limits from per player to per role.

Arr launched with I believe 10 available jobs at max level, and we are now up to ...21?

Why are we still only permitted to fully gear one of them at a time?

If you are after savage content, once you choose that first piece of gear you are more or less locked into that specific class. "Grabbed that striking gear for your monk? well, you can swap to samurai if you want. Oh! there was a change in the lineup of your static, and your tank had to drop. you can swap to tank if you want, but you're starting over."

I have to rely on pugs for ex / savage. In general I can fill whatever role to assist in finding a group. Why can I only gear one? While restrictions need to be in place to prevent some people from getting all the gear in the first week or 2 then saying "we have no content" Could we at least adjust limits to be, "per major role" over "per character". It would allow greater flexibility among the community in all battle content, as well as actively encouraging players to try new roles. Would have side effect of people understanding the mechanics of other classes better, providing better party cohesion.

Quick example, When I started tanking, I honestly thought I was helping by using all my mit at once, thinking "I basically take no damage for about 10 seconds or so allowing healer to dps / top off rest of party." After leveling a healer I realized how stupid that actually is.

It would not inherently allow one player to out gear another at a faster pace. If weekly acquisitions are locked to a role instead of a character. If someone doesn't tank, but heal and dps only. They don't get extra tomes to spend on dps / healer gear, and if they're not tanking they're not going to miss tank gear. It would however allow someone to flex what role they are bringing to content, and be geared better for it.

I say just add 3 variants of the weekly loots.

We are currently on Heliometry tomes, so go Heliometry T, Heliometry D, Heliometry H. Tank gear needs t, healer need h, and dps need D. Each variant has a weekly cap of 450, and the variant your earn is based on your current role when you earn them. Running expert for the day and took a healer? enjoy your Heliometry H tomes. Capped your Heliometry H tomes for the week, great! Now swap to Tank or dps and continue to get real progression on another role.

Alliance raids: You claimed your healer piece this week, and can not roll on this, but you can greed that tank piece.

Normal raids: You roll as normal, but it changes the piece to d h or t variant when you pick it up locking it to that role. You can get each variant once per week.

Savage: Books can work that same way, it locks the book variant to your current role allowing 1 per role per week, and chests can be 1 per 4 fresh roles of the week instead of per 4 fresh players.

It would still limit the progression speed of a single role, yet allowing players greater freedom to play more classes instead of feeling "Stuck" with one.

Just remove all restrictions and let players go full degen and farm everything in a few days if they want. Who are you, their parents? "Only one more dungeon then you have to play outside"

Honestly for once good points on here, Instead of things too hard this makes sense I do not see why not just do not give upgrades obtained in savage until the 24 man. Everything else should have no limits.

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Originally Posted by dwodmots

Just remove all restrictions and let players go full degen and farm everything in a few days if they want. Who are you, their parents? "Only one more dungeon then you have to play outside"

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no this would be awful. I'd rather the final boss just drop additional books or something.

A problem with this is that it would make it impossible to e.g. collect tomestones for your dps using your healer or tank to avoid queues.

Also, as sad as it is, it would be a bad change for them from a business perspective, since there probably would be a lot of people who cancelled/suspended their sub sooner.

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Originally Posted by Naryoril

A problem with this is that it would make it impossible to e.g. collect tomestones for your dps using your healer or tank to avoid queues.

Also, as sad as it is, it would be a bad change for them from a business perspective, since there probably would be a lot of people who cancelled/suspended their sub sooner.

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Why? just add an tome exchange but the cap still goes to the dps as well then.

I think the tome cap is fine, but I completely agree that the raid gear cap should be changed. People raid with different jobs just like people raid with alts with another class in other MMOs, except with alts the cap is per character so everything works out nice. The gear cap should be per job for weapon and per role/shared gear for everything else.

There has to be some cap or else the crafted gear would lose most of its value, unless they also changed the crafted gear in some way.

You can get around gear lockouts by leveling up an alt.

Initial endgame gear roles in ARR:
Tank (PLD, WAR)
Maiming (DRG)
Striking (NIN, MNK)
Aiming (BRD)
Casting (BLM, SMN)
Healing (WHM, SCH)

Current endgame gear roles in Dawntrail:
Tank (PLD, WAR, GNB, DRK)
Maiming (DRG, RPR)
Striking (MNK, SAM)
Scouting (NIN, VPR)
Aiming (BRD, DNC, MCH)
Casting (BLM, SMN, RDM, PCT)
Healing (WHM, SCH, AST, SGE)

Despite all the new jobs added since, we've only had 1 change in role gear - the addition of Scouting.

While it's true there's a lot more weapons to collect, I doubt most players are using the top tier endgame tomestones to acquire all their weapons since that would also require completing the final raid boss of each tier weekly (unless they're also doing Savage). They're mostly getting their weapons from other sources, such as the relic quest once released.

You're going to have a hard time convincing the developers to make a change when they're basically giving away the only job specific gear for free and the number of roles sets has only increased by one with players not expected to play every role.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Initial endgame gear roles in ARR:
Tank (PLD, WAR)
Maiming (DRG)
Striking (NIN, MNK)
Aiming (BRD)
Casting (BLM, SMN)
Healing (WHM, SCH)

Current endgame gear roles in Dawntrail:
Tank (PLD, WAR, GNB, DRK)
Maiming (DRG, RPR)
Striking (MNK, SAM)
Scouting (NIN, VPR)
Aiming (BRD, DNC, MCH)
Casting (BLM, SMN, RDM, PCT)
Healing (WHM, SCH, AST, SGE)

Despite all the new jobs added since, we've only had 1 change in role gear - the addition of Scouting.

While it's true there's a lot more weapons to collect, I doubt most players are using the top tier endgame tomestones to acquire all their weapons since that would also require completing the final raid boss of each tier weekly (unless they're also doing Savage). They're mostly getting their weapons from other sources, such as the relic quest once released.

You're going to have a hard time convincing the developers to make a change when they're basically giving away the only job specific gear for free and the number of roles sets has only increased by one with players not expected to play every role.

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I agree with this, but I do think that it would be a welcome change to adjust the method of obtaining the tomestone weapons. Perhaps a "Specialized Tomestone of ______" that can only be obtained once reaching the cap for that week which can only be used in place or alongside the regular tomestones specifically for weapon purchase? Or even perhaps just making it take half regular tomestones and half "specialized" tomestones from what the current cost is, requiring a bit of post-cap farming each week, but otherwise only serving to make it feasible to get weapons for more than one job. I don't think the raid tomestone needs to change at all, as that pushes the player to either grinding out 7 weeks of the final normal fight or do savage. Typically I'm drowning in the raid tomestones, but unable to buy weapons because of the capped tomestone.

The simple(st) solution is just raise the cap to 900 a week. It doubles how quickly you can purchase gear for all the jobs, but also lets you accelerate gear even if just doing one job. Instead of capping one week, then rushing to cap a second week for your chest or pants, you can just do the one week and get your piece. Assuming a person is just buying tome gear, and only tome gear (due to not Savage raiding, blah blah what-have-you) costs 4,635 tomes. Even with a cap of 900 a week, you are still dedicating 5.15 weeks to a single set (Fending/Healing/Casting you get it). So if you kept that pace for the 7 sets that exist and the caveat of 5 sets of accessories, that's just over 32 weeks or 8 months, which is close to an entire raid cycle.

EDIT: Decided it would be beneficial to put the math and costs here, in case someone takes issue with the numbers.

Head/Hands/Feet are 495 at 1485 (3 pieces)
Body/Legs are 825 at 1650 (2 pieces)
Accessories are 375 at 1500 (4 pieces)

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Originally Posted by Zumi

You can get around gear lockouts by leveling up an alt.

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Which defeats the purpose of being able to have all jobs levelable and equipable on one character.

Keep it simple, and raise the weekly drop/attempt cap to 3. Give players the choice to use all three allowance on one job or allocate them out between different roles.

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Originally Posted by ShiroeTengoku

The simple(st) solution is just raise the cap to 900 a week. It doubles how quickly you can purchase gear for all the jobs, but also lets you accelerate gear even if just doing one job. Instead of capping one week, then rushing to cap a second week for your chest or pants, you can just do the one week and get your piece. Assuming a person is just buying tome gear, and only tome gear (due to not Savage raiding, blah blah what-have-you) costs 4,635 tomes. Even with a cap of 900 a week, you are still dedicating 5.15 weeks to a single set (Fending/Healing/Casting you get it). So if you kept that pace for the 7 sets that exist and the caveat of 5 sets of accessories, that's just over 32 weeks or 8 months, which is close to an entire raid cycle.

EDIT: Decided it would be beneficial to put the math and costs here, in case someone takes issue with the numbers.

Head/Hands/Feet are 495 at 1485 (3 pieces)
Body/Legs are 825 at 1650 (2 pieces)
Accessories are 375 at 1500 (4 pieces)

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If you're not raiding, then the tome gear is quite superfluous. Penta-melded crafted gear will outdo non-upgraded non-BiS pieces of tome gear, and that can be obtained at the rate of gil. For savage raiders, you can BiS 2-3 roles in a raid cycle pretty easily, depending on whether or not the role is primarily savage gear for BiS. The big outlier is the tome weapon, and arguably one could say "Just get the savage weapon" which is better anyway, sure, but some people doing PF have terrible luck with lots. This is why I say that the normal cap, for the most part, is fine. Giving a post-cap special tomestone that's only useable on the weapon offsets the big outlier.

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Originally Posted by Banggugyangu

If you're not raiding, then the tome gear is quite superfluous. Penta-melded crafted gear will outdo non-upgraded non-BiS pieces of tome gear, and that can be obtained at the rate of gil. For savage raiders, you can BiS 2-3 roles in a raid cycle pretty easily, depending on whether or not the role is primarily savage gear for BiS. The big outlier is the tome weapon, and arguably one could say "Just get the savage weapon" which is better anyway, sure, but some people doing PF have terrible luck with lots. This is why I say that the normal cap, for the most part, is fine. Giving a post-cap special tomestone that's only useable on the weapon offsets the big outlier.

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I do Savage raid, and I can typically get just about every single set to BiS before the next tier comes out. I stated in my post if a person is only buying tome gear, due to not everyone grinding in some facet. The tome weapon is always an anomaly, as it takes a lot of time to get one, and usually barely worth the purchase. Either way, the 450 cap only works well if people are Savage raiding to offset what they need to spend. There's very little reason to keep it at 450 a week, except for the defense of, "Its always been that way." or possibly, "It's to keep people subscribed." despite the FFXIV team have stated and shown, multiple times, they value players' time.

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Originally Posted by ShiroeTengoku

I do Savage raid, and I can typically get just about every single set to BiS before the next tier comes out. I stated in my post if a person is only buying tome gear, due to not everyone grinding in some facet. The tome weapon is always an anomaly, as it takes a lot of time to get one, and usually barely worth the purchase. Either way, the 450 cap only works well if people are Savage raiding to offset what they need to spend. There's very little reason to keep it at 450 a week, except for the defense of, "Its always been that way." or possibly, "It's to keep people subscribed." despite the FFXIV team have stated and shown, multiple times, they value players' time.

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Again... if someone is not doing savage raiding, then the tome gear is totally superfluous... Whether or not YOU are doing it is irrelevant. The "you're" in my original statement wasn't directed at you, specifically.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

You can get around gear lockouts by leveling up an alt.

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there is almost no benefit to leveling an alt character in this game, unless you are deep into housing or a hardcore raider.

If you mean that you play a healer on one character ona a tank on another character, well then yes, you can kinda work around the tome limit but is that really worth the huge time investment?

I'm fine with using 1 role to raid for the tier, then not really worrying about other jobs being BiS beyond that, personally. But I also only raid 2 nights a week, 2 hours a night.

Different expansion, same arguments.

While savage can be some of the most difficult content in the game, it is "easy mode" as far as accessibility. Get your party together, click a button - you are there.

There's no farming tokens to spawn it.
You fight it whenever you want.
There's no exp loss for death.
Food doesn't wear when you die.
You can fight it as many times as you want before you kill it. It isn't like some other group can "steal it" if you wipe.
Certain drops are guaranteed, even if not for your job.
You earn tokens to get you the drop of your choice if your item never drops (or you lose the lot to someone else).

The list goes on and on.

How about in exchange for there being no cap on raid loot, you have to spend 8-12 hours farming other mobs to get a spawn item, and then you spawn it but it is an open-world contested enemy that another group can steal from you - or you get one crack at it. You wipe, you have to respawn it again. You lose 10% exp per death and you have to run back to the enemy. And you can only spawn it at certain times. And when you wipe, your cooldowns don't refresh. Etc etc.

If you want accessibility, you give other things up.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Which defeats the purpose of being able to have all jobs levelable and equipable on one character.

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But at no point have we been told that we'd be able to have every job equipped in all tomestone gear or all BiS or all whatever during each patch cycle, especially if we're limiting ourselves on what forms of content we're doing.

That is what many are ignoring. We do have multiple sources of end game gear. You equip the jobs you use the most in the best you can get then use other sources to gear the rest. Getting Aesthetics is very easy since they have no weekly cap. The Neo Kingdom gear is fine for everything outside of Savage (and the Ultimate once it is released in 7.1x). If someone wants to play every job in Savage, then they have normal raids and crafted gear to use.