Viper absolutely did not need to lose Noxious Gnash

Here I am screaming at some void hoping that my "feedback" is heard by some devs.

I still love Viper and I will keep playing it. I am however disappointed that upkeeping a 40 second debuff was "relatively difficult" to some circles of the player base. Viper was incredibly simple, almost to a fault, and now its just "going through the motions" like every other DPS.

What is the biggest disappointment is that we have this very sizable rework literally the day of the Savage release. We couldn't even try Viper in a Savage setting before having the rug pulled out from under us.

I really implore the devs to reverse this change and give us back Noxious Gnash. You can even make it 30 seconds and extendable to 60 if you want more ease of use.

me, for another part of that matter, while agrreing to the debuff matter, dont understand why the 2nd stage of the rotation had to be streamlined as well

the zigzagging of the 1 and 2 buttons was perfectly fine as the job even had 3 different forms of indicating, now i just braindeadly press the same button until i hit 3rd combo stage
[welcome to the summoner's dilemma]

Tbh I feel like it was something that made no difference if it stayed or went. You pretty much applied it 1 time and it was just infinitely up between regular combos and dreadwinder. I'm really not sure why they felt the need to take it away, but honestly I'm not sure if its removal is going to effect the class at all in practice either.

push the debuff 10% dmg into our already existing dmg self buff for all i care in the name of freeing up debuff slots on the target because of debuffcap, but dont oversimplify 1-2-3 combos even more if that is literally all the class got

though i must say i am keen to see if theyd manage to braindead-ify it even more

they dont read the english forums and dont care. im just glad they didnt remove double weave or positionals.

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Originally Posted by Kikusohame

push the debuff 10% dmg into our already existing dmg self buff for all i care in the name of freeing up debuff slots on the target because of debuffcap, but dont oversimplify 1-2-3 combos even more if that is literally all the class got

though i must say i am keen to see if theyd manage to braindead-ify it even more

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And by freeing up one debuff slot on the boss, the viper can now have FOUR self-buffs.

Yeah exactly my thoughts, if they wanted to make it easier just make it 25 or 30 seconds.

Yeah, the changes were totally unnecessary and I definitely don't like the. And the new names? Argh. Too soon to do that kind of change and took a lot of the fun from the job. Bad move Square.

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Originally Posted by Kikusohame

me, for another part of that matter, while agrreing to the debuff matter, dont understand why the 2nd stage of the rotation had to be streamlined as well

the zigzagging of the 1 and 2 buttons was perfectly fine as the job even had 3 different forms of indicating, now i just braindeadly press the same button until i hit 3rd combo stage
[welcome to the summoner's dilemma]

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It would have worked better to give it a slight DT Ninja touch: Reaving Fangs/Maw gives two stacks Honed Steel (with more potency on the buff) and Steel Fangs/Maw gives no extra buff. This way the step 1 of the combo isn't alternating 1-2-1-2 but a pattern of 2-1-1-2-1-1 that un-aligns it with the second step of the combo. Reaving Fangs/Maw can even remain the same potency as unbuffed Steel Fangs/Maw.

I'm indifferent about losing the debuff, mainly because the debuff along with the burst phase felt a lot like mini-Reaper (even though Viper has a lot of other, non-Reaper aspects). The really basic 1-2-1-2 alternating between Steel and Reaving is yikes, though. They could have kept the debuff and simply have Reawaken apply/refresh the debuff, though.

I don't know why they couldn't just let us have until 7.1 to get some Savage experience with it to see if the hardcore playerbase wants these changes. It's been a month, and they're already reworking it for being too difficult.

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Originally Posted by GartredZW

I don't know why they couldn't just let us have until 7.1 to get some Savage experience with it to see if the hardcore playerbase wants these changes. It's been a month, and they're already reworking it for being too difficult.

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Probably because the hardcore player base isn’t the majority nor are they so important that changes need to be centered around them. The hardcore player base adapts and can push anything beyond the average player.

I hope the devs hear you and revert the changes! (Other than slither, good change)

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Originally Posted by Kajing

Yeah, the changes were totally unnecessary and I definitely don't like the. And the new names? Argh. Too soon to do that kind of change and took a lot of the fun from the job. Bad move Square.

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If i remember right, it was done because it something involving not applying poison for a attack named for apply poison.


Honestly, I think they could have just revaluate Viper with the skill and debuff on how it works instead of it being a generic 10%+ damage buff to only the player character.

If they wanted it to be more Viper theme, I think they could have changed the debuff to be a type of Poison DoT that can also auto trigger everytime the player hits the enemy but still trigger normally like a normal DoT effect.

It will still perform DoT damage when the Viper does not hit the boss like a normal DoT but the focus on the Job is to maintaining hitting the boss as a way to Auto Trigger the effect so the "Viper Poison" hits more which can act as the Job unique mechanic while emphasis the name Viper.

This may also help with some of the down time they have been designing the Boss fight with since they have been focusing more on forcing Melee and Caster to stop attacking as their way to "nerf" them instead of focusing on applying improvements to existing Job mechanics.

Like a Viper that is using and allowing their Venom to slowly or quickly kill the enemy.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

Probably because the hardcore player base isn’t the majority nor are they so important that changes need to be centered around them. The hardcore player base adapts and can push anything beyond the average player.

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Not if they remove every possible avenue of skill expression to cater to a tiny minority of ultra-casuals who seemingly can't handle anything more complex than "press the glowy button". There aint a whole lot left to push.

Can't make everyone happy. I actually prefer when things are simpler, so I like this change and don't wish it to be reverted .

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Originally Posted by Leonus

Probably because the hardcore player base isn’t the majority nor are they so important that changes need to be centered around them. The hardcore player base adapts and can push anything beyond the average player.

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The Hardcore are the only ones who actually care this much about the job design. Any random casual isn't even going to bother trying to hyper-optimize everything.

Edit for clarity: When I say Hardcore, I don't mean the ones who play well, or optimally. Hardcore originally meant the foundational core to any group or fanbase. The people who enjoy the thing for what it is, and engage with it more than anyone else. The loyal fans who put a lot of time into it, and would more than likely understand it better than any outsider looking in. Think about hardcore fans of music genres. There's nothing about skill in enjoying or understanding music.

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Originally Posted by Eudyptes

Tbh I feel like it was something that made no difference if it stayed or went. You pretty much applied it 1 time and it was just infinitely up between regular combos and dreadwinder. I'm really not sure why they felt the need to take it away, but honestly I'm not sure if its removal is going to effect the class at all in practice either.

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Honestly, agreed here. I understand and appreciate where other VPRs are coming from in that removing Noxious gives the job one less thing to keep track of, but on the other hand - that one element is not the thing I enjoyed about the job as a whole? So losing it doesn't feel quite impactful, I guess? Like, I have one less timer to pay attention to which having it didn't make the job any more (or less) fun so not having it is just utterly irrelevant to me. If anything it's easier to transition into a pot'd Reawaken phase on demand without having to drag it out a gcd to refresh Noxious first to make sure the whole thing falls within the timer. Idk. I don't want to step on anyones toes but it just feels like a case of complaining-for-the-sake-of-complaining - like you just can't make everyone happy lol.

Happy raiding!