so apparently both EX1 and EX2 have been completed healer-less at this point

nnnnneato!

i should say that this kind of shenanigannery is very cool personally and i approve of it happening, but it really speaks to the redundancy of the current healer design in several ways, and the complete lack of healer alternative play (word of god is healers are allowed to heal and nothing else design-wise, so if that's handled by the party you have nothing to do and contribute little and less)

big ol' healing kit you dont need to use unless someone else on your team is messing up, and not a damn thing to do if nobody is messing up.

if only they were allowed to do literally anything else in such cases, or fights were designed with having a massive redundant pile of heals on legs in mind.

This is how it always works. Healing is crazy engaging until everyone is used to the fight and gear makes constant healing redundant.

We need more fights like Vali ex but amped up even more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpiralMask

it really speaks to the redundancy of the current healer design....

---

You forget that the groups who did this were only able to do it using a technique that party finder DPS could never pull off: Using their defensive cooldowns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

This is how it always works. Healing is crazy engaging until everyone is used to the fight and gear makes constant healing redundant.

We need more fights like Vali ex but amped up even more.

---

The only real change between launch and now is that people have gotten 2 weeks of raid gear upgrades and I doubt that the 4-5 ilvl difference between the Raid Gear and Tombstone was that significant an improvement. It's more a matter of optimization and party comp than anything else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

The only real change between launch and now is that people have gotten 2 weeks of raid gear upgrades and I doubt that the 4-5 ilvl difference between the Raid Gear and Tombstone was that significant an improvement. It's more a matter of optimization and party comp than anything else.

---

So basically, every other job can look forwards to optimizing their role and having some fun, healers get left out , but all's right with the world. Kay, gotcha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

So basically, every other job can look forwards to optimizing their role and having some fun, healers get left out , but all's right with the world. Kay, gotcha.

---

Not really what I said. I meant it more so that gear wasn't the culprit in this situation, meaning that you could've possibly skipped healers entirely day one if you could figure out the proper set up.

who cares if a group spends time optimizing a fight to such a degree, even taking limit break generation into account for Ex2, when 70% of regular Healer including PF groups limp over the finish line with every dps having died 3 times?
Its not really anything realistic for most groups, and just a challenge run for the lulz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Not really what I said. I meant it more so that gear wasn't the culprit in this situation, meaning that you could've possibly skipped healers entirely day one if you could figure out the proper set up.

---

I think that you believe that i missed the point you were trying to make, however I believe the reverse is also true.

Sorry, no matter how I tried to write this is came out confusing. Let me just say this- you don't see any issue in leaving out a job entirely on day one? That doesn't constitute a "proper set up" to me if a job is based on a trinity. Before anyone says 'but it's just a dungeon", then it's "but it's just Ex"....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I think that you believe that i missed the point you were trying to make, however I believe the reverse is also true.

Sorry, no matter how I tried to write this is came out confusing. Let me just say this- you don't see any issue in leaving out a job entirely on day one? That doesn't constitute a "proper set up" to me if a job is based on a trinity. Before anyone says 'but it's just a dungeon", then it's "but it's just Ex"....

---

I don't think it's a good thing either. I think Healers are in an awful state and have been for years now. What little enjoyment there is for the whole role is a small grace period of people learning mechanics but after that, it gets optimized to such an extreme level that allows this sort of crap to happen in the 1st place. I hate it and wish it wasn't the case but it's been that way for 5 years and seems to be getting worse if day 1 no healer clears are even theoretically possible. I absolutely see the issue but until SE does something about it, we're only going to see more threads like this one pop up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by All_Nonsense

You forget that the groups who did this were only able to do it using a technique that party finder DPS could never pull off: Using their defensive cooldowns.

---

In order to do this joonbob used paladin healers who only used their MP to heal. They still had healers, they were just paladins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zolvolt

In order to do this joonbob used paladin healers who only used their MP to heal. They still had healers, they were just paladins.

---

This.

It would have been more efficient to do with Healers.

But the challenge was to do it without Healers, so they handicapped themselves but managed to still complete it.

I mean if you just used paladin's as healers. it wasn't really a no healer run. But does showcase how little healing and healers are actually required if a couple paladins can make it work with essentially just clemency spam.

I think there is a difference between doing something healer/tank/dps less as a challenge and for efficiency reasons. 1/0/3 expert runs are/were more efficient so can be considered an issue, healerless top on the other hand is way more finicky than just bringing a standard comp.
So if ex farms start being 2/1/5, 1/1/6 or 1/0/7 then that’s easy to call a problem. If it’s just being done as a laugh then what’s the harm?

I’m pretty sure 2/3/3 ucob is not uncommon, is that worth complaining about because healers are over represented?