Reconsidering the Removal of Energy Drain/Dissipation - A Note on Scholar

One of the original complaints for Shadowbringers' initial removal of Energy Drain for Scholar was that it caused an overflow of potentially unused aetherstacks. Now that people seemed to have eased their stance on this, with an example being Astrologian's typical opener calling for a fresh draw of cards after the application of only one, would people still be opposed to Energy Drain's removal/potential aetherstack overflow?

I'm not sure where in the minority or majority I am on this, but I find Energy Drain forcing a constant consideration of healing vs DPSing to be counter-intuitive, and not fun. Resources for optimizing outgoing damage on Scholar show an opener loaded with six energy drains. Having abilities like Dissipation, which was likely designed as an emergency fallback for outgoing heals where needed, is reduced to a DPS oGCD because of a single ability.

I think that, with the removal of the damage on Energy Drain or the removal of Dissipation, Scholar would feel much more coherent.

What are your thoughts on this?

I don't think people have 'eased their stance' on this.

If AST had something usefull to dump the cards in, and they'd still be dumped that might be a different argument. But they are just superflous single target heals.

There's also the fact SGE has to dump addersgal into overhealing for mp. Which people, afaik, don't like but begrudingly tolerate.

I don’t really see the point of messing with SCH’s energy drain gameplay loop when if you don’t want to engage with it there is already ~~not SCH~~ SGE which is designed with this in mind

Can we not touch Energy Drain while not just Scholar's, but every healer's damage kit for single target is as barren as it is?

Potency is low enough as is to make many Scholars primarily use them on supportive skills and only dump them before AF refresh. There is no need to get rid of gameplay potential for clever use of non-AF supportive skills and your co-healer's kit.

I still don't understand why people put so much importance in maximising Energy Drains when each cast of Energy Drain is weaker than an uncomboed Aeolian Edge.

Losing 100 potency to heal doesn't even matter. You know what's a bigger DPS loss? A dead player.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I still don't understand why people put so much importance in maximising Energy Drains when each cast of Energy Drain is weaker than an uncomboed Aeolian Edge.

Losing 100 potency to heal doesn't even matter. You know what's a bigger DPS loss? A dead player.

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Yes, but on the other hand 100 potency are still better than needless overheal. Or wasted resources.

It's quite literally the only form of optimisation left in SCH. That's why people want it to stay.

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Originally Posted by Sani2341

Yes, but on the other hand 100 potency are still better than needless overheal. Or wasted resources.

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I probably wasn't clear in my post. I'm not saying to remove it, I'm one of the people who will defend Dissipation and Energy Drain.

What I'm saying is I don't understand why people put so much importance in that 100 potency to the point where they say using any other Aetherflow ability "feels bad". It's not hard to hold on to Aetherflow while progging and only dump it when you need to refresh, that's a normal part of progging, learning the fight and all that.

Id support this if it got something else to spend extra Aetherflow on like a short duration single target damage buff (crit increase?).

I just find Energy Drain really boring tbh. Outside of savage/extreme/whatever you literally don’t need to use Aetherflow on heals (*laughs in 60s Recitation*). So your entire job gauge is dedicated to an ugly ability that’s literally 10 years old and doesn’t really add anything to the job unless you’re like, progging ultimates

Instead of removing Energy Drain, they should buff it as it is the only guaranteed way to actually use Aetherflows. It would be worse for SCH if you had nothing to heal and no way to use excess Aetherflows.

Yeah, I'd prefer if Energy Drain was buffed instead of removed. In its original incarnation, it did 150 potency while SCH's basic Ruin filler was 80. Granted, this was less than Bio 2 (300), Miasma (270), Bio (240) and even Aero (200), but compare that to now where all of SCH's Aetherflow healing tools are dramatically more powerful (Sacred Soil is absurdly huge, has an Indomitability built in and then some) and other free oGCDs are plentiful, even beyond ones that used to be used while casting.

Today SCH has the GCDs Biolysys (750) and Broil IV (310). Its only DoT is only 2.6x stronger than its basic filler where before its weakest of 4 DoTs was 2.5x. The rest were 3x stronger at least.

And thus, Energy Drain almost being 2x stronger than it was a lot more impactful and worth considering, especially as it returned more HP and some MP. It was a more relevant choice to be made, one that was reflected in SCH's Faeries as well as Eos offered way more healing but Selene could provide additional damage if used in the right circumstances. I contend that Energy Drain feels pointless and annoying mostly because the devs have all but removed it, again, it only existing today due to player backlash.

I would prefer if it and similar design elements of spending potential healing resources would return to the forefront of SCH, since that was part of its original DNA and one of my original draws to the job.

1) If you want to Play SCH without ED, play SGE

2) ED shouldn't be removed but it should get an animation upgrade, AoE damage, and it should be buffed. And we should get quickened aetherflow back.

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Originally Posted by Cypris_Laimon

I'm not sure where in the minority or majority I am on this, but I find Energy Drain forcing a constant consideration of healing vs DPSing to be counter-intuitive, and not fun.

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I don't think having a choice between a supportive or offensive option is counter-intuitive. On the contrary, it's a very common trope in many types of games and I think FFXIV needs to do it more.

Can it feel uncomfortable and stressful at times? Yes, it can... and I think that's good! That's the point. It pushes you to weigh the needs of your party in the moment, learn what consequences come from a choice, and overall become a more knowledgeable player. This is a very good gameplay loop to get players to keep playing the game.

That being said, I personally don't feel attached to Energy Drain. What it offers can be done in other parts of its kit. But I think what most people are afraid of, is that Energy Drain will be removed and nothing interesting will replace it. It's very common with job reworks so I don't blame them.

GCD healing in itself is having to make a constant consideration of healing or using a GCD attack spell, so I'm curious about how you feel about having to GCD heal as a healer.

Imagine after using aetherflow and having your little gauge gems charged up, every time you use ED one of the aetherflow stacks unlocks by draining the energy of the enemy, and allowing you to cast all of the aetherflow repertoire... On the UI you'd get chains around your aetherflow purple gems a bit like SMN around their own gems when unable to summon them, and once you ED, one of them unlocks with a chain. Rewards players to use ED to do damage by giving them access to heals.

But on the other hand, you'd lose the decision making between burning your resource onto damage or healing. Which has been a similar debate on gap closers for the past expansions.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Imagine after using aetherflow and having your little gauge gems charged up, every time you use ED one of the aetherflow stacks unlocks by draining the energy of the enemy, and allowing you to cast all of the aetherflow repertoire... On the UI you'd get chains around your aetherflow purple gems a bit like SMN around their own gems when unable to summon them, and once you ED, one of them unlocks with a chain. Rewards players to use ED to do damage by giving them access to heals.

But on the other hand, you'd lose the decision making between burning your resource onto damage or healing. Which has been a similar debate on gap closers for the past expansions.

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That’s basically just addersgall but instead of passive charging you charge by doing an oGCD damage ability against the enemy

It wouldn’t add anything to SCH and just rip its entire optimisation out because in that scenario there is never a wrong time to use SS

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I still don't understand why people put so much importance in maximising Energy Drains when each cast of Energy Drain is weaker than an uncomboed Aeolian Edge.

Losing 100 potency to heal doesn't even matter. You know what's a bigger DPS loss? A dead player.

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Agreed. Energy Drain should either be revamped or removed. It's a trash skill in its current iteration.

ED restoring hp is my only gripe with the ability. If it restored MP it would be so useful outside of just being a spender.

Does SCH have actual MP issues?

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Originally Posted by Valence

Does SCH have actual MP issues?

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No healer really has MP issues

The only time you will have MP issues on SCH is overuse of seraphism as seraphism doesn’t mitigate SCH’s expensive GCD costs like recitation does

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Originally Posted by Valence

Does SCH have actual MP issues?

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not massively but still its far more useful then hp that can be restored by my fairy.

ED needs a buff, imo, or at least change the ratio of Broil damage and ED damage so optimization actually feels more impactful. Of course we're not gonna get that within this xpac. I will actually unsub if they remove Energy Drain.

I like the idea of making Energy Drain AOE.

I think it's in a good spot where the damage is incredibly negligible so that while it's fun to press, it's also absolutely never going to make a real difference because it's a fraction of one Broil, but making it into an aoe would result in it being more enjoyable during dungeon pulls while leaving it mostly unaffected in savage.

The fact its damage is utterly forgettable is part of why I like it as a button to have.

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Originally Posted by wildvenonat

I like the idea of making Energy Drain AOE.

I think it's in a good spot where the damage is incredibly negligible so that while it's fun to press, it's also absolutely never going to make a real difference because it's a fraction of one Broil, but making it into an aoe would result in it being more enjoyable during dungeon pulls while leaving it mostly unaffected in savage.

The fact its damage is utterly forgettable is part of why I like it as a button to have.

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It adds up eventually tbh. The damage isn't that forgettable if you use most of your aetherflows on it. Let's say in a 15 minute encounter you use artherflow and dissipation all their aetherpoints on ED it ends up being around 6000 potency worth which is around 19 Broil IVs. It's pretty big for an oGCD attack for savage raids, think it's part of the reason why Scholar despite the fact it's damage moves in EW weren't as potent as SGE or WHM still ended up pretty high in damage for savage.

If they remove ED they better replace it with something that offers similar tidbits that reminds me I'm playing SCH instead of just removing them entirely:

1. Makes me think between dmg vs heal.
2. Keeps SCH's HPS in check.

If history ever taught me anything - never trust SE to get the job done proper when it comes to healers. Reductionist is how they 'fix' their issues: instead of trying to fix what's existing, they'd rather remove the entire system. I'll keep my sorry 100p pretzels, thanks. If people hate to consider, there are literally 3 other healers to pick up.

If they replaced it with another GCD DOT (they won't do this) AND made unused stacks be converted into faerie gauge on refresh, then it could possibly be okay. One thing I initially liked about scholar when I was a sprout was how energy drain was kind of a reward for spacing out your heals and not over-healing, so part of me would miss it if it was removed.

As is, I would expect it to be replaced it with another oGCD heal, or maybe even not replaced with anything at all, if modern XIV healer design trends are anything to go by. All this to say, I would be apprehensive about asking for them to remove energy drain.