MMO on Rails

How do you guys feel about a mmo being on rails?


"making sure players know where to go and what activities are there to do once they enter a new map."

Boring.
Then again, I'm the type that likes to find things on his own.

I'll wait and see.
I don't want a game on rails. I won't play a game on rails for long, IMO...
But I do think XI did a bad job at giving people some direction (I.E. having to search websites to find out where the ??? was to click for the next CoP mission because the game told you nothing).

Helpful advice is completely okay. Tips and whatnot are fine and I encourage that completely.

However, I do not need my hand held. I can figure stuff out on my own. I'm not a second grader.

Rokien: "How many of you like eating poop?"

Everyone: "We don't like poop and would never eat it."

Rokien: "Ah-hah! See? SEE?? You guys proved my point! FFXIV is poop. You all hate it. See what I did there?"


/thread

Seriously dude it's like you think the devs are retarded.

Do you Seriously think they are going to make it an MMO on rails?

What this says is that they are going to make things more clear as to what you should be doing as apposed to how it is now that you just jump in and don't know what the F--- to do.

I just like MMO's to allow lots of freedom that results in unexpected and (even) unintended consequences. It gives games replay value. It's much easier to get burned out on a game that's on rails (or content on rails, Aurum Vale, Cutters, etc) than a game that simply gives you a world with a few rules (like gravity!) and then lets the chips fall where they may.

This game is already on rails. We have a journal and map showing the very spot to go. Can it get any easier?

A good balance between directed and freeform content, would be best. Especially when the directed content merely nudges you in the direction of more content, and does so in multiple directions.

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Originally Posted by Lum

This game is already on rails. We have a journal and map showing the very spot to go. Can it get any easier?

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Technically, on-rails means the game forces you to go in one direction.

The journal guides you, but it's certainly not forcing you.

When I say I don't want a MMO on rails what I mean is I want my MMO to basically be Lord of the Flies.

You're all missing the point.

When Musketeer is released, the allure of the job is that it's gonna be a rail shooter! Pop them snurbles as the game auto-navigates you across Thanalan!

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Originally Posted by DarthTaru

When I say I don't want a MMO on rails what I mean is I want my MMO to basically be Lord of the Flies.

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kill the beast cut his throat spill his blood kill the beast cut his throat spill his blood kill the beast cut his throat spill his blood kill the beast cut his throat spill his blood kill the beast cut his throat spill his blood kill the beast cut his throat spill his blood kill the beast cut his throat spill his blood kill the beast cut his throat spill his blood kill the beast cut his throat spill his blood

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Originally Posted by DarthTaru

I want my MMO to basically be Lord of the Flies.

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Jeez dude...

Have a little bit of faith in the dev team. They've earned it over the past year.

Having some direction like the game guiding you from one quest hub to another is a good thing. But you don't have to do those quests your still free to do what you want to do. Having no guide at all isn't a good thing.

Hey, I'd rather have something like the journal, than a questgiver who gives you the quest, and then doesn't give you the decency of a hint for where you are supposed to go. Some quests in XI were so downright cryptic, you had to check a wiki just to find basic info.

How about you quote the whole thing and not just a part of it?

"We will have a strong in-game guide, making sure players know where to go and what activities are there to do once they enter a new map." http://www.mmoculture.com/?p=3030

Never knew a guide forced you to do something.

Rokien must believe that "figure out that you're supposed to go to Valkurm Dunes even though absolutely nothing in the game ever tells you that" was good game design

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Originally Posted by Keres

Rokien must believe that "figure out that you're supposed to go to Valkurm Dunes even though absolutely nothing in the game ever tells you that" was good game design

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My FFXI experience, 1-75

"So uhhh, LS-mates, where do I go now?"

"Best camp for EXP at your level is (insert specific spot you never heard of)"

"... How the hell was I ever supposed to figure that out on my own??"

"Hit the JP-button."

A good MMO has a direction. Even sandbox games have directions. Mabinogi has the destiny system and a series of quests that get you started on your build before going into the main story and other things. Even Ultima Online revamped its new user experience to point the character in the right direction.

The fact is, we've been going on-rails this whole time. Go through main scenario quests, do grand company quests, get to level 50. All MMORPGs have rails, one way or another.

However, Just because 2.0 has a direction doesn't mean that there will be just ONE direction. The good thing about FFXIV right now is that there are a lot of paths that cross. Starting city, profession, job, grand company, among other things. We don't just have one rail - we have a lot of them. Simply by switching jobs, you can go through another path you just opened up.

Skyrim is on-rails to an extent, too. You start out, go through a tutorial, become the thane of whiterun, go to the greybeards, get helped by the blades, beat Alduin. That doesn't mean it's the only rail you go on considering the amount of questlines there are.

A good game doesn't just have one set guidelines - it has tons. Final Fantasy XIV has lots of em and 2.0 will have them, and more.

And why not show the stuff that you can do when you enter a map? That isn't on-rails. It's an opportunity to see what paths you can go. You can pick what you want to do as a low-levelled Marauder when you go up, then come back after you get to level 50 WAR as a low-levelled Thaumaturge and pick what you want to do next.

FFXIV isn't just on-rails. It has too many, and that's why it'll make a great open-world game.


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Oh, why am I thinking. This is a Rokien thread. :)

They mentioned that when they were talking about cross server content finder. As far as I understand, It should be a menu introduction to get everyone used to the new system menu. For example, this is to group up with anyone on any server in your region to finish an AF battle or a dungoen instead of shouting in Uldah forever.

what does it mean "on rails"?

SWTOR was a mmo on rails and you see how that game is doing. my bet is its getting shutdown in the near future.

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Originally Posted by indira

SWTOR was a mmo on rails and you see how that game is doing. my bet is its getting shutdown in the near future.

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This

/10char

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Originally Posted by indira

SWTOR was a mmo on rails and you see how that game is doing. my bet is its getting shutdown in the near future.

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Actually, it's still got more active players than the vast majority of MMOs. Of course, it has indeed taken a huge fall since launch, and it fell greatly short of EA's moneygrubbing expectations. It's not getting shut down, though; it's just going free to play (officially confirmed and everything).

Needs rails, with lots of optional, worthwhile stops along the way.

Isn't the game on rails right now? I mean there isn't very much content you can do without doing some GC quests first. Crappy public dungeons, NMs, faction leves are pretty much it.

Oh look, Rokien jump on the first phrase out of context, as he did in the very same topic he found it... Quote for thruth

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

How about your quite the whole thing and not just a part of it?

"We will have a strong in-game guide, making sure players know where to go and what activities are there to do once they enter a new map." http://www.mmoculture.com/?p=3030

Never knew a guide forced you to do something.

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Yoshi said they were going to take a "Conductors" approach to FFXIV.

I guess this means they will usher you through various quest hubs to level cap?

And then have some cross-server thing on the side (why?)...

FFXI had something similiar. There was a process where you went to valkrum, Jueno, Qufim, Kazham, etc. So it's not like FFXIV will be the only game in history to be on rails. They can still conduct people through content without it getting annoying. But at the same time, there's merit in the argument that too much coercian and forced gameplay just gets boring fast.

We need some content that lets us think for ourselves, and do things with the community our own way.

I wish MMO designers would realise that some people just want to log in and do their own thing sometimes. Fortunately there will always be crafting and gathering too, which is a playstyle you can always just do on your own terms, generally speaking.

I think it's pretty damn rich, though, how in that same China Joy interview, Yoshi P completely shrugs off ArcheAge as "just another Korean MMO", when in reality, it looks to be the only upcoming game which really invests time into developing content where players can create gameplay around what THEY want to do, not just what the game tells them to.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

Yoshi said they were going to take a "Conductors" approach to FFXIV.

I guess this means they will usher you through various quest hubs to level cap?

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Yes. Lots of guessing on your part, but somewhere on the way you seem to have gotten lost and forgot it was just guessing.

'Conductor' to me means someone who facilitates you getting to where you want to go, but you still have to choose your own final destination and work out a lot of other details and detours on the way. And a public transport system is never the only option.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

I think it's pretty rich how in that same China Joy interview, Yoshi P waives off ArcheAge as "just another Korean MMO"

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'Q: Going up against heavy hitters such as Blade & Soul and ArcheAge, how will Final Fantasy XIV stand out?
A: Final Fantasy XIV has a more unique game history and culture, which is a big factor *refers to Final Fantasy 8, Faye Wong singing “Eyes on Me”*. Korean MMORPGs focus too much on the game itself, but not about the real life culture surrounding it.'

Nope. Not seeing that in there at all. You're just wilfully misinterpreting things, aren't you? ;)

But Rokien, I thought you wanted trains :p

I noticed Rokien likes to start threads and never reply to the people in it. Is it your goal to make as many pointless threads as possible?

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Originally Posted by Nonsensicles

Yes. Lots of guessing on your part, but somewhere on the way you seem to have gotten lost and forgot it was just guessing.

'Conductor' to me means someone who facilitates you getting to where you want to go, but you still have to choose your own final destination and work out a lot of other details and detours on the way. And a public transport system is never the only option.



'Q: Going up against heavy hitters such as Blade & Soul and ArcheAge, how will Final Fantasy XIV stand out?
A: Final Fantasy XIV has a more unique game history and culture, which is a big factor *refers to Final Fantasy 8, Faye Wong singing “Eyes on Me”*. Korean MMORPGs focus too much on the game itself, but not about the real life culture surrounding it.'

Nope. Not seeing that in there at all. You're just wilfully misinterpreting things, aren't you? ;)

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With all due respect (i.e., no respect), there's not much wilfull misinterpretation going on. All I did was paraphrase his attitude into words. You can't just lump Blade & Soul and Archeage into one group (Korean MMO) and treat them as identical and as just one-dimensional games. Korean MMORPG isn't exactly a genre.

I think it really shows a lot of ignorance to treat them as the same, since they are diamterically opposed in terms of subgenre (one is a theme park, the other a sandbox). So when I say he waives them off, there is actually a lot of validity to that claim, since it's obviously what he's doing.

If you read some articles on game-design by Jake Song (the director of ArcheAge) and compare it to Yoshi's blase approach, then you will see how far Yoshi falls short, and it comes across as arrogant to people who are up-to-date on other upcoming MMOs when Yoshi makes a throwaway phrase about korean MMORPS being all the same.

Last time i checked, FFXIV didn't have non-instanced house-building, shipbuilding, siege warfare, swimming, non-instanced airships, and multiple mounts (which can jump AND fight with you). Archeage does have those things. So he should be a little modest in the future, that's all.

We need rails. There are many people who are finding existing content very challenging. Also, many people finding 'what to do next' extremely challenging and difficulty.

Think of how many times you were in a party to start a quest, but someone did not finish the pre-requisites.

Need big glaring words to appear in front of you: YOU MUST GO <HERE>. DO not ask for a party. You not need a party yet!

And this will help those who do not need 'rails', as it means they will not have to wait around for others to finish the pre-reqs.

OR.....
We train everyone to read and do critical thinking?

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

I think it's pretty damn rich, though, how in that same China Joy interview, Yoshi P completely shrugs off ArcheAge as "just another Korean MMO", when in reality, it looks to be the only upcoming game which really invests time into developing content where players can create gameplay around what THEY want to do, not just what the game tells them to.

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That's the definition of sandbox, and we know this game is in direction of theme park.
Btw, sandboxes aren't wonderful all they time: they are very difficult to balance and if something goes wrong, the game will folllow. that's a reason why sandbox are so few

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sandboxes aren't wonderful all they time: they are very difficult to balance and if something goes wrong, the game will folllow. that's a reason why sandbox are so few

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sandboxes dont give instant gratification is why there so few of them alot of people want things for everything they do, with themeparks either hold your hand or give you stuff for doing anything

Ummm.....

If this is gonna be a toggled feature, even with only a button that says "Check this to not bug the shit out of me ever again", then what's the harm? People who need direction will have it, people who like to wing it will still be permitted to do so.

God forbid there be options for people who aren't as intuitive as the rest of us.

An MMO on Ruby on Rails would be nice~

NOT

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Originally Posted by Lum

This game is already on rails. We have a journal and map showing the very spot to go. Can it get any easier?

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My thoughts exactly. These flashing arrows everywhere make listening to NPCs completely pointless and they take away all exploration and adventure from the game.

Also they ruin the community. There is nothing on the game for us to figure out or talk about here. The depth is skin deep.
Compare this to Monster Hunter 3 for example that has an awesome community and it's not even an MMO. Mh threads are stock full of strategies and crafting knowledge.

None of that is in XIV as absolutely every activity boils down to:

1) follow the marker
2) hit the action button until the activity be it combat or cooking is over


Repeat the same thing endlessly.